Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Theodarzna]

Saying the GOP champions the poor is a stretch. They are good at placating the poor with small gestures while catering to the rich.

The Dems are bad at countering Republicans.

They've become the Working Class champion merely because they have no competition on that front. There is no political Left Wing to really compete for those votes, definitely not one interested in doing so in a serious way.

[DarkTZeratul]

Republicans flipped California - 25, the seat that Katie Hill had. The congresswoman congressional Dems under the bus because of their high standards. An election that should have never happened in the first place but one that should have easily been won.

It's important to note that CA-25 was actually red for a long time; Katie flipped it blue, so it going back to red isn't exactly a huge surprise.

[Edge-]

They've become the Working Class champion merely because they have no competition on that front. There is no political Left Wing to really compete for those votes, definitely not one interested in doing so in a serious way.

Yep, as they've systematically dismantled and weakened unions.
As they've fought to keep the minimum wage low.
As they've lowered taxes on the wealthy and corporations while barely giving the working class a break.
While they've tried to end the ACA without any form of replacement ready.
While they're currently trying to provide total legal immunity for businesses that dangerously re-open now.
As they've fought against additional unemployment and stimulus funding.
As they've fought against campaign finance reform or limiting the influence of money in politics to give megadonors and corporations less influence on legislation.

I mean, I could go on here, but I believe this would be what you could call a "bad faith argument" from your other thread. Democrats aren't a hard-leftist party and aren't immune from pro-corporate sentiments and policies. But to argue that they are not, and have not been, doing or pushing for pro-working class policies is, as Biden would say, "malarky".

The "serious way" is a qualification that allows you to say, "Yeah, but they didn't TRY hard enough which is why we don't have it!" and lets you conveniently ignore that many of these policies require support from both sides of the isle, or that without campaign finance reform that Democrats are still required to play the same political fundraising games to have any attempt at enacting change.

And no, the Democrats aren't some purely motivated party either.

And if you argue that the left isn't "interested in doing so in a serious way", then you also have to acknowledge and argue that the right isn't even interested in it at all. So they can't be the Working Class champion by default, unless you just blindly believe Republican talking points.

[Draco-Onis]

Trump is attempting to protect their culture.

What culture is that exactly? because last I checked every race has a combination of various cultures so please be more specific.

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They've become the Working Class champion merely because they have no competition on that front. There is no political Left Wing to really compete for those votes, definitely not one interested in doing so in a serious way.

I would say there's a kernel of truth in what you say as a lot more cross over has happened over the years in the name of moderation but on policy they clearly are not. The GOP always and continues to appeal to single issue voters (abortion, immigration, race, etc).

[Theodarzna]

I would say there's a kernel of truth in what you say as a lot more cross over has happened over the years in the name of moderation but on policy they clearly are not. The GOP always and continues to appeal to single issue voters (abortion, immigration, race, etc).

I'd say on policy it is materially true that the Democrats and the Working Class are not really aligned with one another. Right now the pitch of the Democratic party is that a small cadre of enlightened technocrats can be trusted to generously furnish the working class with a better life. A central premise of Marx is that classes simply cannot act this way. Classes pursue their own interests and act politically not out of self-interest.

What even are the Democrats policies? It certainly isn't Universal Healthcare. given how quickly the party has worked to incorporate NeoCon flakies and leftovers from the Bush Era it isn't non-interventionism, the party isn't seriously pushing for anything that could be a material benefit to that class of people.

The GOP wins merely by default due to a lack of credible competition. DSA isn't going to do it, Nathan J. Robinson dresses as a peacock and calls himself a Proudhonist which in a sane world would relegate him to obscurity.

The problem is the Democrats are the party of the Professional Managerial Class; and the problem for the Pseudo-Left in most of the western world is that it too is dominated by people in that class with deep anxieties about decline position in the world, an increasing powerlessness and inability to pass on class status or hold onto class status.

[Cynep]

Hello guys. I don't really belong in this thread, just came to ask one question in hopes for a useful answer or two.

While doing quick research for a post in the Covid thread, I found out that, according to a recent poll, governors best at handling the pandemic were overwhelmingly Republicans. So my (ignorant foreigner) question is, will this success of Republican governors help Trump the Republican in 5 months, or not really?

[Acidbaron]

Hello guys. I don't really belong in this thread, just came to ask one question in hopes for a useful answer or two.

While doing quick research for a post in the Covid thread, I found out that, according to a recent poll, governors best at handling the pandemic were overwhelmingly Republicans. So my (ignorant foreigner) question is, will this success of Republican governors help Trump the Republican in 5 months, or not really?

Much like in Russia the numbers are being under reported in a creative way that the situation looks better for political gain what takes priority over people's well being.

I am fairly certain you got a similar answer in the corona thread but refused to accept it.

Asking the same thing over and over won't change facts i am afraid.

[Bdatik]

Hello guys. I don't really belong in this thread, just came to ask one question in hopes for a useful answer or two.

While doing quick research for a post in the Covid thread, I found out that, according to a recent poll, governors best at handling the pandemic were overwhelmingly Republicans. So my (ignorant foreigner) question is, will this success of Republican governors help Trump the Republican in 5 months, or not really?

All 50 governors are polling better than Trump, so no. Also, the governors who are not polling well (sub 55%) are ones who did not act proactively and are mostly Republican governors. From the article your tweet referenced:

Several GOP governors who moved slowly to follow their colleagues in shutting down beaches or closing bars also have generally lower approval ratings. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, Iowa Gov. Kim Reynolds, Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt, South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster and Alaska Gov. Mike Dunleavy all have approval ratings under 55 percent — low compared to many of their faster-acting peers.

"The governors who are most closely aligned with the least proactive policies are paying a price for that, because it's out of touch with their citizens," Baum said.

[Rasulis]

All 50 governors are polling better than Trump, so no. Also, the governors who are not polling well (sub 55%) are ones who did not act proactively and are mostly Republican governors. From the article your tweet referenced:

Brian Kemp was at 39% according to IPSOS poll two days ago.

[Milchshake]

Brian Kemp was at 39% according to IPSOS poll two days ago.

Also, that tweet/poll that other poster was referencing, was from April 30th.

Like 30,000 some deaths ago...

[Bdatik]

Brian Kemp was at 39% according to IPSOS poll two days ago.

According to the article the other poster linked (through the tweet), "Only two governors — Hawaii Gov. David Ige (D) and South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem (R) — have approval ratings below 50 percent, though they still received higher marks than Trump."

But that article is 2 weeks old and I now question why @Cynep is using that one instead of one more up to date.

[Milchshake]

According to the article the other poster linked (through the tweet), "Only two governors — Hawaii Gov. David Ige (D) and South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem (R) — have approval ratings below 50 percent, though they still received higher marks than Trump."

But that article is 2 weeks old and I now question why @Cynep is using that one instead of one more up to date.

WEll, now that the #Obamagate thing failed. They're rolling out their next ratfucking badfaith circlejerk.

[Rasulis]

According to the article the other poster linked (through the tweet), "Only two governors — Hawaii Gov. David Ige (D) and South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem (R) — have approval ratings below 50 percent, though they still received higher marks than Trump."

But that article is 2 weeks old and I now question why @Cynep is using that one instead of one more up to date.

Highest rated by their constituents - DeWine, Cuomo & Newsom. In that order. DeWine has 87% approval rating. Cuomo and Newson 81% and 80%.

Lowest - Kemp, Abbot & DeSantis. Although both Abbot and DeSantis are still well above 50%. Kemp is a special case.

[Bdatik]

Highest rated by their constituents - DeWine, Cuomo & Newsom. In that order. DeWine has 87% approval rating. Cuomo and Newson 81% and 80%.

Lowest - Kemp, Abbot & DeSantis. Although both Abbot and DeSantis are still well above 50%. Kemp is a special case.

So of the top 3, 2 are Democrats and neither weren't included in @Cynep's top 8. And the 3 lowest are Republicans. That's interesting.

[Cynep]

Much like in Russia the numbers are being under reported in a creative way that the situation looks better for political gain what takes priority over people's well being.

I am fairly certain you got a similar answer in the corona thread but refused to accept it.

Asking the same thing over and over won't change facts i am afraid.

No, I didn't ask election questions in Covid thread, that'd be offtopic

To address the Covid thread first: about 2 months ago, when no one in USA took it seriously, I saw mentions somewhere that Ohio governor is implementing measures already. Internal USA stuff isn't my business, but I have good memory, and when a politicized board warrior started saying "Republicans this and that" I went back to see how's Ohio doing, and replied that a Republican governor is doing the best job. The answer to that was basically "he's an outlier, u fail". Well no, he's not an outlier, governors that are doing a good job are mostly Republicans. I didn't ask questions in that thread, I already know the facts.

My question in this thread is different and simple: will the high approval of the governors spill over to help in the president elections? Or it doesn't work like that in the USA?

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So of the top 3, 2 are Democrats and neither weren't included in @Cynep's top 8. And the 3 lowest are Republicans. That's interesting.

In other words, overall approval is different from approval of their actions concerning Covid. So it seems that Republicans are better at fighting the pandemic than at other stuff? Does that lead to "no" as the answer to my question about president elections?

[Firslaps]

I'd say on policy it is materially true that the Democrats and the Working Class are not really aligned with one another.

Ironically this is something that will cost the corporate Democrats the election in 2020 and herald the collapse of the establishment party.

[Theodarzna]

Ironically this is something that will cost the corporate Democrats the election in 2020 and herald the collapse of the establishment party.

It MAY cause a loss in 2020, it might not. But the Party itself won't collapse because it does have a social base, the Professional Managerial Class supports it. The party most under threat is the GOP since its base is simply only its base due to a fundamental lack of serious competition.

[Lenonis]

Hello guys. I don't really belong in this thread, just came to ask one question in hopes for a useful answer or two.

While doing quick research for a post in the Covid thread, I found out that, according to a recent poll, governors best at handling the pandemic were overwhelmingly Republicans. So my (ignorant foreigner) question is, will this success of Republican governors help Trump the Republican in 5 months, or not really?

You are just so cute with your attempted gotcha. (PS -- the thread you linked isn't the most flattering behavior on your part).

Couple problems.
1) Online poll
2) Nonprobability Sampling
3) Error margins so wide you can drive a bus through it and renders your conclusion (Republicans are the best) false.

So -- nice try but next time know stats before trying to use them to make an argument.

[Felya]

Ironically this is something that will cost the corporate Democrats the election in 2020 and herald the collapse of the establishment party.

Which is mind boggling to say, when GOP is running a corporation that gave corporations a 15% tax cut.

[Lenonis]

Seems like a legitimate poll to me.

I didn't say anything about the legitimacy of the poll.

As with all polls you want to take into the methodology and the error margins

Which is what I did

but you shouldn't dismiss the sample size or the fact how such polls have to be conducted given the public restrictions.

I didn't as they are built into the wide-enough-to-drive-a-bus-through error margins.

I'm not saying take it as gospel, but you can gleam some information from it.

But not the information the poster was trying to put forward as conclusive.