Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Milchshake]

Did someone say rap?
For amusement value....
This is the guy that Jacobin/Intercept/Putin is running against Nancy Pelosi.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

it's hilarious that people think biden would win.

[Omega10]

it's hilarious that people think biden would win.

He is currently up by double digits, with leads in all of the swing states, along with being even or slightly ahead in states such as Georgia and Texas. Right now the odds are definitely in his favor.

It is important to remind people that this election is no shoo-in however.

[Hinastorm]

kanye running to split the black vote to help trump get elected

the thing is, african americans are one of the most politically savvy, look at bidens primary win, bernie basically ignored the black vote, and black interests( bernie bros derided it at "identity politics") and clyburn basically single handedly carried joe biden in super tuesday with his endorsement. They know what a threat trump is, thats why trump tried black outreach for the past few months, but it basically shifted 0 points in the polls so thats why he went back to full archie bunker in the past 5 days as his white base has gone down possibly due to lack of red meat

Imagine calling black voters savvy after handing the primary to Biden on super tuesday, instead of voting for Bernie, who represents their economic interests far better.

Good lord.

Voting for Bernie was the single biggest thing southern black voters could of done to help themselves economically, and they didn't do it.

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There was a news article I read like... a week or two ago in the Washington Post, I think. About how black voters carried Biden to win the primaries because they as a whole felt he had the best chances of beating Trump, which was the quality they viewed most important in a candidate or something along those lines.

Turnout beats trump. Excitement drives turnout. Biden does not equal excitement.

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Kanye going to Rap on the Debate Stage about how Trump's a Racist.

Last I heard he was a trump supporter. But he's so mentally unstable who knows whats going on now.

[Elegiac]

Imagine calling black voters savvy after handing the primary to Biden on super tuesday, instead of voting for Bernie, who represents their economic interests far better.

Good lord.

Voting for Bernie was the single biggest thing southern black voters could of done to help themselves economically, and they didn't do it.

And the fact that rather than examine why they made that decision you immediately assume that Black people - the same Black people who have generations of experience organizing and maintaining political reformist movements - are less than savvy is just a tell of a paternalistic view towards them. Which, incidentally enough, is one of the reasons why Biden won South Carolina.

Turnout beats trump. Excitement drives turnout. Biden does not equal excitement.

Cool. People are excited to vote against Trump.

[Thekri]

Imagine calling black voters savvy after handing the primary to Biden on super tuesday, instead of voting for Bernie, who represents their economic interests far better.

Good lord.

Voting for Bernie was the single biggest thing southern black voters could of done to help themselves economically, and they didn't do it.

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Turnout beats trump. Excitement drives turnout. Biden does not equal excitement.

You know, blaming black people for failing to back your preferred candidate isn't a great look...

Biden wasn't my choice either, but I recognize he legitimately won the democratic primary. Anger that your candidate didn't get enough votes is a misunderstanding of what a democracy is. The goal is not to elect your preferred candidate, it is to let everyone decide.

[Hinastorm]

He is currently up by double digits, with leads in all of the swing states, along with being even or slightly ahead in states such as Georgia and Texas. Right now the odds are definitely in his favor.

It is important to remind people that this election is no shoo-in however.

Until Trumps october "surprise" that somehow dupes enough people into not voting for Biden.

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You know, blaming black people for failing to back your preferred candidate isn't a great look...

Biden wasn't my choice either, but I recognize he legitimately won the democratic primary. Anger that your candidate didn't get enough votes is a misunderstanding of what a democracy is. The goal is not to elect your preferred candidate, it is to let everyone decide.

I get this reaction everytime I point this out. I don't care how it looks, it's the objective truth.

I don't recall bitching about the system? Where did the rest of your reply even come from?

Black people played themselves on super tuesday. I repeat it as often as I can in hopes that they, and other disadvantaged groups, might pay more attention to who they are voting for.

[Elegiac]

I get this reaction everytime I point this out. I don't care how it looks, it's the objective truth.

I don't recall bitching about the system? Where did the rest of your reply even come from?

Black people played themselves on super tuesday. I repeat it as often as I can in hopes that they, and other disadvantaged groups, might pay more attention to who they are voting for.

They did. The fact that you make absolutely no effort to understand their decision and assume it is a function of being less than informed only shows an "objective truth" that you seem to think they're idiots, but justify that belief as somehow okay because you support left wing policies.

[Hinastorm]

They did. The fact that you make absolutely no effort to understand their decision and assume it is a function of being less than informed only shows an "objective truth" that you seem to think they're idiots, but justify that belief as somehow okay because you support left wing policies.

Bernie supporting black peoples economic issues more than Biden is objective truth.

I never called them less informed. I'm pretty sure everyone knew what Bernie was all about by then.

They voted for Biden 1. Because of his ties with Obama and 2. They incorrectly thought he is more electable.

Yes, I do think they are idiots. But so are all the poor white people who keep voting republican. Race is not a factor in this particular point.

[Thekri]

Until Trumps october "surprise" that somehow dupes enough people into not voting for Biden.

Maybe, but Sanders couldn't get enough people to vote for him in the spring. Not sure why you think he would do better in November. I don't like Biden either, but he is what we have to deal with. And right now he seems to be in a pretty good place. There is a lot of work to do, we can't get complacent, but Biden could certainly pull this off. There is no reason to keep shitting on him unless you actively want Trump to win.

I get this reaction everytime I point this out. I don't care how it looks, it's the objective truth.

I don't recall bitching about the system? Where did the rest of your reply even come from?

Black people played themselves on super tuesday. I repeat it as often as I can in hopes that they, and other disadvantaged groups, might pay more attention to who they are voting for.

Ok, so you know it looks racist and patronizing, and you just went with it anyway. Cool, glad you are self aware about it. However I have the feeling Black people are a bit tired of being told what is good for them and what is not. Maybe let them figure it out themselves.

[Hinastorm]

Maybe, but Sanders couldn't get enough people to vote for him in the spring. Not sure why you think he would do better in November. I don't like Biden either, but he is what we have to deal with. And right now he seems to be in a pretty good place. There is a lot of work to do, we can't get complacent, but Biden could certainly pull this off. There is no reason to keep shitting on him unless you actively want Trump to win.



Ok, so you know it looks racist and patronizing, and you just went with it anyway. Cool, glad you are self aware about it. However I have the feeling Black people are a bit tired of being told what is good for them and what is not. Maybe let them figure it out themselves.

So we can't discuss a group making a poor decision because they are black?

Like I said above, poor white people keep voting republican, and they are idiots too.

[Thekri]

Bernie supporting black peoples economic issues more than Biden is objective truth.

I never called them less informed. I'm pretty sure everyone knew what Bernie was all about by then.

They voted for Biden 1. Because of his ties with Obama and 2. They incorrectly thought he is more electable.

Both of those reasons appear to be working out pretty well right now. You are missing the important criteria here, Trump is absolutely horrible for their interests. We have a White Supremist in the White House that is being more bold about it every day. They just want him gone, and they thought Biden was the best chance to do it. So far, that seems to be a pretty accurate assessment of the situation. I would have preferred Warren as president, but I doubt she could ever poll where Biden is. I know Sanders couldn't.

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So we can't discuss a group making a poor decision because they are black?

Again, it isn't a poor decision just because you don't like it.

[Hinastorm]

Both of those reasons appear to be working out pretty well right now. You are missing the important criteria here, Trump is absolutely horrible for their interests. We have a White Supremist in the White House that is being more bold about it every day. They just want him gone, and they thought Biden was the best chance to do it. So far, that seems to be a pretty accurate assessment of the situation. I would have preferred Warren as president, but I doubt she could ever poll where Biden is. I know Sanders couldn't.

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Again, it isn't a poor decision just because you don't like it.

We seem to disagree on objective reality, so i'll give up arguing that point.

But how are the 2 points that I discussed "appear to be working out well right now"?. What?

What is Bidens connection to Obama doing? Obama would of wholeheartedly put his backing behind anyone with a D next to their name.

And I suppose we can't argue the second point until after the election. I'm a very very strong believer that exciting people to turn out wins elections. Biden is not the man for that job.

[DarkTZeratul]

And I suppose we can't argue the second point until after the election. I'm a very very strong believer that exciting people to turn out wins elections.

Data shows that not liking a candidate tends be a particularly strong motivating factor. For instance, in 2016, quite a number of people weren't voting for Trump so much as they were voting against Clinton.

[Hinastorm]

Data shows that not liking a candidate tends be a particularly strong motivating factor. For instance, in 2016, quite a number of people weren't voting for Trump so much as they were voting against Clinton.

Lets hope it's enough, but I sure would of preferred the candidate that people were actually excited about AND having the motivation to kick out trump.

Never going to fucking get anything done if all elections are about is kicking out who's currently in.

[Thekri]

We seem to disagree on objective reality, so i'll give up arguing that point.

But how are the 2 points that I discussed "appear to be working out well right now"?. What?

What is Bidens connection to Obama doing? Obama would of wholeheartedly put his backing behind anyone with a D next to their name.

And I suppose we can't argue the second point until after the election. I'm a very very strong believer that exciting people to turn out wins elections. Biden is not the man for that job.

Because that isn't what the word objective means. You are using "objective reality" to describe your own political opinions. Just because you sincerely believe it, which is fine, doesn't make it objective reality.

I am not going to bash voters for choosing Biden any more then I am going to bash you for choosing Sanders. Both are fine, and both had sound reasoning behind supporting them. I don't agree with either position, but that doesn't mean that either is a poor decision, it just isn't my position. I understand your reservations about Biden not being particularly charismatic, but Biden is quite likeable. The national mood is very much fed up with all the drama and excess, the climate is perfect for a candidate that is running on the "Everyone needs to just calm down and stop all the Malarkey".

While Sanders did have a much more passionate base, he struggled to grow that base to sufficient size to carry the Democratic primary. That much emotion is a liability if it is just a small core of enthusiastic voters and everyone else just going along with it to get rid of Trump. Biden is sort of nobodies favorite, but in everyone's top 3. He is the compromise everyone can sort of live with. That might be just the ticket to wind this thing and end our national nightmare.

[Zinstorm]

We seem to disagree on objective reality, so i'll give up arguing that point.

But how are the 2 points that I discussed "appear to be working out well right now"?. What?

What is Bidens connection to Obama doing? Obama would of wholeheartedly put his backing behind anyone with a D next to their name.

And I suppose we can't argue the second point until after the election. I'm a very very strong believer that exciting people to turn out wins elections. Biden is not the man for that job.

I personally think Bernie is more exciting then Biden.... but in the end I don't think it would have turned out better from the fact that his base didn't show up to vote for him in the primary's when he needed them too.

If they didn't come for him then... chances are they wouldn't have come for him in the general (or at least enough of them wouldn't have to the point where he would lose to trump).

[Hinastorm]

Because that isn't what the word objective means. You are using "objective reality" to describe your own political opinions. Just because you sincerely believe it, which is fine, doesn't make it objective reality.

I am not going to bash voters for choosing Biden any more then I am going to bash you for choosing Sanders. Both are fine, and both had sound reasoning behind supporting them. I don't agree with either position, but that doesn't mean that either is a poor decision, it just isn't my position. I understand your reservations about Biden not being particularly charismatic, but Biden is quite likeable. The national mood is very much fed up with all the drama and excess, the climate is perfect for a candidate that is running on the "Everyone needs to just calm down and stop all the Malarkey".

While Sanders did have a much more passionate base, he struggled to grow that base to sufficient size to carry the Democratic primary. That much emotion is a liability if it is just a small core of enthusiastic voters and everyone else just going along with it to get rid of Trump. Biden is sort of nobodies favorite, but in everyone's top 3. He is the compromise everyone can sort of live with. That might be just the ticket to wind this thing and end our national nightmare.

Didn't read past the first sentence.

Do you disagree with the statement "Bernie Sanders does, and would of, supported the economic well being of black people, more so than Joe Biden, based on all the current information we have today"?

If you disagree with that statement, you're not paying attention.

Feel free to reply if you wish, I won't be reading it. You're a waste of time.

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I personally think Bernie is more exciting then Biden.... but in the end I don't think it would have turned out better from the fact that his base didn't show up to vote for him in the primary's when he needed them too.

If they didn't come for him then... chances are they wouldn't have come for him in the general (or at least enough of them wouldn't have to the point where he would lose to trump).

The primary and the general are 2 very different monsters when it comes to turnout. This is well documented. The added incentive to vote trump out during the general being the most obvious factor.

Infracted - Trolling

[Thekri]

Didn't read past the first sentence.

Do you disagree with the statement "Bernie Sanders does, and would of, supported the economic well being of black people, more so than Joe Biden, based on all the current information we have today"?

If you disagree with that statement, you're not paying attention.

Deliberate ignorance of someone's argument is not a winning position. It is a temper tantrum that shows you are refusing to engage in a good faith argument. I do disagree with that statement, and what is more, the majority of America disagrees with it as well. Could I be wrong? Certainly. However I will vote based on what I see and believe, and so will everyone else. The bottom line is that Sanders could not get enough be to believe he was the right choice. The majority chose Biden, and hopefully they will choose Biden again in November.

[Hinastorm]

Deliberate ignorance of someone's argument is not a winning position. It is a temper tantrum that shows you are refusing to engage in a good faith argument. I do disagree with that statement, and what is more, the majority of America disagrees with it as well. Could I be wrong? Certainly. However I will vote based on what I see and believe, and so will everyone else. The bottom line is that Sanders could not get enough be to believe he was the right choice. The majority chose Biden, and hopefully they will choose Biden again in November.

What incentive do I have to argue in good faith with someone who is denying a basic reality? I'm not here to change his mind, I go back and forth with someone until we either understand eachother better, or it becomes clear they are insane, deranged, reality denying, or are trump supporters. Then the discussion ends.