Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[starlord]

Only extremists want the police completely defunded but the slogan itself was never meant to mean that. Reallocation of their large budget to other social services is the main goal behind "defund the police".

yea but on first glance it looks like the former, which is all most people will bother with. creates a really bad first impression.

[Draco-Onis]

Indeed, and the other big issue is that whenever candidates propose actual nitty gritty policies to fix these inequalities (worker rights, higher minimum wage, tax increases on the rich, universal healthcare, etc.) they can't even finish their sentence before half the country cries about socialism and a good chunk of the other half gets nervous about socialism. Couple that with the voting base being so different from State to State, or even within States, and yeah no shit the country is mired in inequalities that people love to rail about but don't ever want to actually see fixed in case they are on the losing end, and/or (insert class of people they don't like) also benefits from these new policies.

The cycle will be unbroken so long as the collective psyche of America doesn't change. See you in 30 or so years to see if that happens but don't hold your breath I say.

What 2016 and 2020 have proven without a shadow of a doubt is that populism is in and it doesn't matter if that populism is selling socialism, authoritarianism, fascism or racism. The people of this country are sick of the status quo and the establishment and Trump got that because even in 2020 he was still running as an outsider against the deep state, establishment. The DNC doesn't get it and they will continue to get crushed because they haven't learned anything and think boring old politicians are going to get them power.

[kaid]

It depends on the next Maricopa County drop... that should be on around this hour. ATM, it's irrelevant for me.

This guy is the one that posts AZ updates, btw:

https://twitter.com/Garrett_Archer

Should I think be the last big mericopa county chunk coming in the next hourish. Once that is cleared if trump does not clean up its probably a done deal.

[Kathranis]

Because there is a narrative that everyone is dirty.

As part of that narrative it doesn't whether you vote for McCain, Hillary, Obama, Biden, or Trump; they are all evil - and equally so.

It may have originated at the left-pole or it may have originated in the Russian whataboutism, but it has spread - and Trump perfectly illustrated that when he said "He [=Putin] Is A Killer And We[=the US] Are Too."

Similarly fake news ( https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump ) isn't just intended to make the gullible believe it, but also to make everyone doubt all news, and think that nothing is true, and everything is possible.

Thank you for saying this. It's not all or nothing, good vs evil. We're very rarely going to have the luxury of voting for a perfect candidate. Every president, governor, and member of congress will make decisions that cause harm. That is, unfortunately, unavoidable.

Every election is always going to be about choosing the lesser of two evils. That's the best we can hope for.

But every time this country makes the right choice, it moves the needle, and if we move that needle enough times in the right direction we'll keep getting closer to that utopian society we dream about. That's progress.

Don't get complacent. Criticize Biden, criticize Harris, criticize everyone. Hold their feet to the fire, pressure them to make the right choices.

At the same time, don't fall into the nihilistic trap that all politicians are inherently corrupt and the world is fucked no matter who we elect. That's a fucking lie. There are still people willing to make the right decision. You take those victories where you can get them and you keep moving the needle.

[Ausr]

Only extremists want the police completely defunded but the slogan itself was never meant to mean that. Reallocation of their large budget to other social services is the main goal behind "defund the police".

To be fair, "reallocation of funds" isn't as easy to chant than "defund the police."

[Paranoid Android]

Saying GOP is now the party of the working class is utter nonsense. Trump lost voters earning under $50K by 15 points. He lost voters earning btw $50-$100K by 13. He WON voters earning over $100K by 11. That's what happens when u enact Paul Ryan's agenda https://t.co/NiyJuMtK7J

https://twitter.com/PeterBeinart/sta...655366656?s=19

We can break down the numbers in many different ways. But this shows me people on the upper end voted for their tax cuts.

[starlord]

What 2016 and 2020 have proven without a shadow of a doubt is that populism is in and it doesn't matter if that populism is selling socialism, authoritarianism, fascism or racism. The people of this country are sick of the status quo and the establishment and Trump got that because even in 2020 he was still running as an outsider against the deep state, establishment. The DNC doesn't get it and they will continue to get crushed because they haven't learned anything and think boring old politicians are going to get them power.

even trump couldn't actually enact populist policies when he was up against the GOP.

[Antiganon]

Oh, it is. But you can't make a decent field of stars with 52.

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[Kathranis]

Should I think be the last big mericopa county chunk coming in the next hourish. Once that is cleared if trump does not clean up its probably a done deal.

I've sort of moved on from watching the remaining count pour in, but have there been any notable shifts in the last 36 hours? I know Arizona is tightening up with 100k uncounted remaining and could still potentially swing back. Is Trump hitting any of the margins he needs to hit to swing it into recount territory?

PA, WI, and MI all seem to be beyond automatic recount territory now... Not that the margins would have been enough to realistically flip.

[Breccia]

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Wrong in/out pairing!

[Draco-Onis]

even trump couldn't actually enact populist policies when he was up against the GOP.

Trump didn't want to actually enact any populist ideas, he had the power to do whatever he wanted the GOP never got in his way in any meaningful way. Trump was always looking out for Trump, he was too busy looting, pillaging to do anything meaningful. His entire 4 years was focused on destroying Obama's legacy, he never really had a plan.

[Thepersona]

I've sort of moved on from watching the remaining count pour in, but have there been any notable shifts in the last 36 hours? I know Arizona is tightening up with 100k uncounted remaining and could still potentially swing back. Is Trump hitting any of the margins he needs to hit to swing it into recount territory?

PA, WI, and MI all seem to be beyond automatic recount territory now... Not that the margins would have been enough to realistically flip.

I stopped following the race closely after yesterday night, but as far as i know, Trump has been missing his minimum % in Maricopa consistently.

[Endus]

so how do dems escape the "defund the police" and socialist mantles
they cant just denounce it, because theyve all already have.
Is there any death row inmates they can go personally watch the execution of for political points ( bill clinton actually did this with a cop killer)?

They don't "escape" shit.

Anyone who thinks that either "defund the police" or socialism in general is somehow a negative, is a right-wing type who engages in willful ignorance to maintain their partisan agenda. There's nothing to "escape", and the people taking issue with those positions could not ever be convinced to support anything you say; they will twist whatever it is into something it is not. As they do, with those two positions, which is why you think they need to be "escaped" to begin with.

It's just shitty anti-progressive propaganda. A lie that extremists tell to delude those who just want to be told what to think.

what the fuck are you even talking about? Defunding the police was literally never part of Biden's platform and people voted for him anyway. Changing how the money is spent is what most people support. Not outright defunding them.

As Benggaul said, defunding the police is entirely about changing/reducing the spending. Not reducing it to zero. Anyone who believes the latter bought a stupid propaganda lie from bad faith actors, because they didn't want to bother thinking for themselves. Pretty much nobody except a few random extremists on Twitter were ever suggesting abolishing the police. And you'll note that "abolish the police" is a different mantra than "defund the police". Because they don't mean the same thing.

"Changing how the money is spent" is literally what "defund the police" is supposed to mean. It's just a really shitty slogan.

I disagree that it's a shitty slogan. As above, the people misrepresenting the slogan are gonna lie about everything, regardless. These are the same people who claim that #BLM is anti-white racism. The same people who claim liberal/democratic socialism is authoritarian communism. The same people who claim that responsible gun control means jack boots taking everyone's guns.

It doesn't matter what the issue is, what the slogan is, they're gonna lie about it, because enough people just want a lie that confirms their kneejerk ignorant fears more than they want to exert a modicum of effort in trying to understand anything. If the Democrats pushed a new agenda about "Pet ownership is nice", they'd be ranting about Democrat enslavement or that Dems just want to eat dogs and cats, or something similarly insane. The same way they've tried to misrepresent every other slogan.

It isn't the slogans that are the problem. It's that the ideological opponents are going to lie, and their audience is too gullible and complacent to understand that they're being lied to.

[Zan15]

Not even close.

Odd based on your criteria and math, trumps 2016 would be cold not lukewarm at all......that's odd to have such bias....

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Again, achieved against TRUMP! About a third of Biden's votes were not for him but against Trump. Yeah, not really impressive.

and what % of votes were to "pwn the libs" "or against the socialist/hair sniffing pedophile/facist democrats"

I'd say waaaaaaaaaay more that 33%

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So Joe Biden will be the 1st candidate to win 51% of the vote against an incumbent president since... FDR.

He did run the most FDR-like campaign.

LOL but his win was "lukewarm"...hahahah

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100,000,000 mail in votes in Phil??

holy shit this dude has lost his shit.

[Redwyrm]

Odd based on your criteria and math, trumps 2016 would be cold not lukewarm at all......that's odd to have such bias....

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and what % of votes were to "pwn the libs" "or against the socialist/hair sniffing pedophile/facist democrats"

I'd say waaaaaaaaaay more that 33%

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LOL but his win was "lukewarm"...hahahah

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100,000,000 mail in votes in Phil??

holy shit this dude has lost his shit.

Those tweets do not have the same Trump cadence. Not enough mispelings or CAPITALIZATIONS. Plus he used the word authenticated correctly.

[szechuan]

100,000,000 mail in votes in Phil??

holy shit this dude has lost his shit.

And 70 million Americans voted for him.

president pelosi 2020

[Kathranis]

Those tweets do not have the same Trump cadence. Not enough mispelings or CAPITALIZATIONS. Plus he used the word authenticated correctly.

You can tell when they hide his phone from him and when he finds it again.

[Paranoid Android]

Wrong in/out pairing!

Just give the Dakotas one star.

[Benggaul]

It isn't the slogans that are the problem. It's that the ideological opponents are going to lie, and their audience is too gullible and complacent to understand that they're being lied to.

No, sorry, the initial reaction to "defund the police" from nearly anyone is pretty much "what, take away their money?" because "defund" literally means to prevent from receiving funds. It's a natural reaction to the phrase.

If they continue to misinterpret or misrepresent it after the fact then yes, they're lying liars who lie. But it's very understandable that people don't get what it means based off the slogan alone. I've spent a not-insignificant amount of time explaining it to people and the vast majority of them--the ones that don't still disagree with it, at least--agree that the slogan is misleading and is probably causing more harm than good.

I realize this is getting us a tad OT again, though.

Bottom line is that the Biden administration isn't going to "defund the police" in the way that fearmongers say they will, but I'm hopeful they'll be able to reallocate some funds eventually in the spirit and intent of the phrase.

[Antiganon]

Also this. Discussing about what zone in wow is the most beautiful one is more relevant to this thread than the trials and tribulations of a dead Arizonian.

And by the way, its original Nagrand, i will not negotiate on this.

Grizzly Hills.

Fight me.