Datamined race intros shows Blizz set on whitewashing Horde.

[matrix123mko]

Granted, but Baine is still Horde. People just call him Anduin’s pet, and it is infuriating.
Calia is straight up Alliance. It’s a tiny bit different, and even that aside having 2 racial leaders, 1 that people dislike and 1 that is actually Alliance, might be too much for some players.

Yes. For Horde BfA turned out disappointing. They lose Sylvanas, who was on Forsaken banners since their inception. They lose Gallywix, who, besides not making sense in the first place, was considered very funny. They also lose warchief, which makes Horde feel less exotic. And then, they can see Blizzard trying to rewrite the Horde to look different than in the past.

[kasuke06]

You mean the super woke world, where sensitivity is at an all time high. So it now has to do with literally making it like white people.


The original meaning still counts. And in this instance, I'm not sure it's a bad thing. No one wants the horde to be villains, nand the description just shows that this is the developers intent. The horde are not villains, though major villains have come from the horde, the horde has risen up to put an end to any tyrant abusing his or her power. For da HORDE !

You'd be surprised how many people on this board alone picked the horde just to be villains.

[Magistrate]

Yeah I was hoping the Caelia thing was a red herring sort of thing but it looks like they're turning them into a holy pure highly moral race like all the humans. That on top of making all their cosmetic features hidable like bones and gore and they're just hunched Alliance players. Shame.

[Feanoro]

You'd be surprised how many people on this board alone picked the horde just to be villains.

At least you can respect the ones that say "I wanted to play an evil character and enjoy it." The ones that make no sense want to run babies through wood chippers, but don't you dare call them or the Horde evil.

[Soon-TM]

At least you can respect the ones that say "I wanted to play an evil character and enjoy it." The ones that make no sense want to run babies through wood chippers, but don't you dare call them or the Horde evil.

The problem is that in the current setup, you can please neither Saurfang's honourbros, who got their hero killed and a farce of "council" set up instead of the iconic post of warchief, nor Sylvanas' murderbros, who thought they could finally play a fully evil faction until the deep end. Btw, not even Ally players can be happy with the current story, unless you are one of those Anduin groupies laying around.

[Xheoul]

I think it's dope that Blizzard is finally showing the Horde is learning and becoming something better and greater.

Some people here are too focused on what happened before. you could say that, like fools they cling to the old hatreds, and fight as we had for generations. Until the day the sky rains fire, and a new enemy comes upon us.

[Varodoc]

I think it's dope that Blizzard is finally showing the Horde is learning and becoming something better and greater.

Some people here are too focused on what happened before. you could say that, like fools they cling to the old hatreds, and fight as we had for generations. Until the day the sky rains fire, and a new enemy comes upon us.

No. I think I am just salty they destroyed a good-looking Alliance hub.

[Syegfryed]

BFA did have some relevance - it brought in new races, and a faction war expansion would've been good, but given what Sylvanas's plan turned out to be it could just as easily be completed if she did nothing but fondle herself and waited for N'zoth to do his thing post-sword, then pissed off.

None of this crap was necessary and wrangling her to the Warchief spot ruined her, ruined her race and wasted Vol'jin meaning that the dude who has a massive backstory regarding troll unity, the Zandalari and his dynamic thereof as well as being an actual troll is reduced to a ghost investigating his own murder (to no result of course) instead of where he should be. Hell, with Vol'jin as Warchief, you could still have the faction tension shit and the Battle for Dazar'alor, just cut the Undercity and Teldrassil bits entirely given how they're never referenced and only open sinkholes that make the rest of the plot nonsensical.

BFA has got me to the point where I'm defending Vol'jin as Warchief. It's all ogre.

man it would be so good he facing Rasthakan and the 2 being like equals, but no, they wasted both.

What baffles me is no one there seeing things stand up to said "hey danouser, maybe that is fucked up to do man, better not...", or in fact they do but get fired.

In all honesty it would have been a much better expansion if you cut all the war down and had Sylvanas act behind the scenes only to culminate in the SL intro.

it could have a faction war, if it done right and with vol'jin/Garrosh, it could be just a side thing like it was in MOP and cataclysm, those were good faction war stories.

But Jesus, how bad their work was is astonishing to me

The only good thing on it that i can remember, was Gallywix and his quests cause it was fun and had no shit deep moral problems that we should feel bad for doing it, it was just some fun quests of race conflict about goblins x gnomes

That is warcraft to me, race x race under the factions, we could have humans x trolls, night elves x orcs, undead x worgens and so much more, but no, we got a bland faction war with no spice

[Stormwolf64]

If the new Forsaken post-BFA is defenders of the living, then it matches up with Blizzard's new design for them. They just are changing something fundamental about the race to make them more marketable instead of just letting them be evil and ignoring them.

BFA was essentially a soft reboot for racial lore.

Who reboots aspects of a mmo's story for an expansion? Neurotic fucking blizzard need to get real. It won't see any more big influxes of new players. They've gained way too much notoriety so they should focus on servicing the loyal customers they already have. But they're loyal and keeps paying, so who cares about them, right?

[Yarathir]

I think it's dope that Blizzard is finally showing the Horde is learning and becoming something better and greater.

Some people here are too focused on what happened before. you could say that, like fools they cling to the old hatreds, and fight as we had for generations. Until the day the sky rains fire, and a new enemy comes upon us.

No, I don't think that's it.

[qwerty123456]

Humans were creations of the titans they aren’t native to Azeroth in any way there just robots who got cursed by some void weridos.

As to knowing they were aliens I find it hard to believe no trolls knew that that the night elfs were mutants And I think the trolls were around before the curse of flesh but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a bit hazy on that time frame from forgetting stuff.

This is guess work by me but I would think the united troll empire would share info of all the new inhabits and weird things going on.

Humans weren't robots. Their ancestors were. Humans were born on Azeroth. Unless a Loa told them shit I highly doubt they knew any of the shit going on, hell the Zandalari set up shop in Titan ruins and were best buds with the mogu who were also Titan creations.

[Magnagarde]

This is grade A storytelling kool aid that they're having. Forsaken striving to protect the living lol hell, they could just rename them to the Embraceful then?

Most of the Horde races have a lot of heroic feats under their belts, but they also have a lot of plainly villanous ones too, much more so than their playable adversaries. The point however isn't who did more of what, but where these actions lead and how that is represented. Finally making a stable and benevolent Horde that also makes sense to have(ie not sending the Horde on a genocidal warpath and then claiming all is peachy) can't be that hard Blizzard. The very problem stems from the fact that they didn't BfA's war neutral and downright resource-based from the get-go, but once again resorted to Horde-does-bad-but-isn't-badism and the ever-reverberating notion of internal change which they can't properly articulate for a decade.

If the Chronicles volumes are the Titans' views of the universe and history, then these introduction cutscenes are Nathanos' view of history. In two expansions time we'll be reading about how the Forsaken loved farming, forests, bunnies and whatnot, with playable Squirrel-men in the Horde that join because the Forsaken save them off their burning trees.

We get it, the Horde has changed, there's a council that presides over it and they're doing their best to wash away the stain left behind by Sylvanas, but Blizzard's inability to truthfully craft a story in which the Horde will indeed look the way they're representing them in textual lore and at face falue is just astounding. They instead resort to explaining the events they themselves gave us in a way that is completely illogical, but they seem to think that they're doing brilliant work as long as they add "bestselling authors" credits to this utterly bizzare and heap of trash story.

This is borderline schizophrenic storytelling in which the very writers have no idea what they actually made happen. Writing a story in which A does B, but then saying that A did C and completely errasing B from collective memory is just another astounding example of the lack of coherent writing on their part.

[Shadowferal]

What happened to humans originating from stunted Vrykul?
Was that changed?

[Kiri]

What "Forsaken today"? The opposition to camps that we know of came from Gilneas, Stromgarde and Kul Tiras. With two of those flat out leaving the Alliance over this issue altogether, before the Scourge outbreak even happened.

Those in Lordaeron who made the internment camps happen. Most people involved in that are either dead or Forsaken by now.
Mind you, all of this originated from a post that seems to now be deleted, which linked humans - as in the player race in WoW - to the whole internment camp thing. The Stormwind humans that are playable ingame didn't really have a whole lot to do with that, was what I am saying. It was mostly a Terenas and Kingdom of Lordaeron thing, whose officials are more likely to be found among Forsaken today than Stormwind Humans. Not like it all matters too much, anyway.

[Magnagarde]

Can't wait for the human introduction to pop off with...

"Inheriting the proud and noble legacy of prince Arthas, who bestowed the blessing of eternal existence to his own people and provided free heating to Stratholme, descendants of heroic refugee-shelterer Medivh and synthwave DJ and producer Benedictus..."

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Humans weren't robots. Their ancestors were. Humans were born on Azeroth. Unless a Loa told them shit I highly doubt they knew any of the shit going on, hell the Zandalari set up shop in Titan ruins and were best buds with the mogu who were also Titan creations.

rather you want to count the viking as humans or not it doesn't change that they aren't native's of azeroth they are only there because of the titans.

its also due to them hanging out with the mogu and being around before the curse of flesh that it seems likely that they would have some kind of knowledge on where the curse of flesh races came form.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't Chromie making an appearance before questing? Something about the quests being memories.

even if she does it kinda counteracts these openings.

[Magnagarde]

rather you want to count the viking as humans or not it doesn't change that they aren't native's of azeroth they are only there because of the titans.

its also due to them hanging out with the mogu and being around before the curse of flesh that it seems likely that they would have some kind of knowledge on where the curse of flesh races came form.

Azeroth's a titan to begin with. The Titanforged aren't native to Azeroth, but in the context of Azeroth's world soul they make sense to have and aren't alienating in any way. Nothing's more at home on a titan world than the titans' very creations.

Of course, once and if Azeroth ever awakens we might just find out what it thinks about other titans and what they've been doing.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Azeroth's a titan to begin with. The Titanforged aren't native to Azeroth, but in the context of Azeroth's world soul they make sense to have and aren't alienating in any way.

argus also has a titan but that doesn't mean trolls or humans are native to it. each titan clearly has its own races so just because you bring some of your robots over doesn't make them not alien.

[Magnagarde]

argus also has a titan but that doesn't mean trolls or humans are native to it. each titan clearly has its own races so just because you bring some of your robots over doesn't make them not alien.

You're speaking from the biological standpoint of what crawls on the surface of a planet and whether it started crawling on said surface from day one of its existence. I'm speaking from a perspective of pantitanism. The view critically depends on what you find more relevant to defining something; what cosmic powers something belongs to or what is crawling on the surface by sheer accident of biological evolution.

On top of that, I do think that the Titanforged are the only ones who rightfully belong on Azeroth and humans are no longer that, even though they come closer to that, together with dwarves and gnomes, than most other races. Still, coming close to something doesn't make you that something.

[Shadowferal]

The Rise of Humans

Under King Ymiron's reign, 15,000 years ago, the curse caused vrykul children to be born in a disfigured state, which was considered "weak and ugly" by vrykul standards. These infants were dubbed "aberrations" and "runts", and vrykul society was deeply divided on how to deal with them. Some vrykul were disgusted by these "aberrations" and beseeched their ruler, Ymiron, to have them all killed, citing a need to keep the vrykul race pure; others pleaded with him to show them mercy, protesting that despite their weakness, these infants were still their children. Ymiron meditated on the issue for some time before reaching a dangerous conclusion: that because the Titans had not come to aid them in their hour of need, and because the vrykul knew of no other beings with power on the same level as their gods, the curse must have been created by the Titans. Although this was not the case, the vrykul believed it, and at Ymiron's bidding they forsook their gods and Titan worship was outlawed. Ymiron then took the side of those calling for the death of their malformed infants, and decreed that all parents with so-afflicted children must kill their young or be taken to Gjalerbron for execution.

However, not all vrykul could bear to kill their own flesh and blood. Despite their king's harsh decree, they sheltered their children and took them away to a land far away from Northrend, the modern Tirisfal Glades. They had heard stories of the vrykul clan that had followed Tyr and had settled in that area and decided it was a safe haven for their children. There they nursed and raised their children in secret, and taught them the stories and values of ancient vrykul society as well as the ways of foraging, masonry, smithing, and warfare. Finally, with heavy hearts, they left them in the care of the vrykul that inhabited Tirisfal, before returning to Northrend. These outcast vrykul "runts" would later form their own cultures and kingdoms, and became known as humans.