Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

[Feanoro]

Oh look everybody, apparently, I am mistaken for thinking night elven mages are an actual thing, and I should completley ignore what the game and the lore tells me, and listen to a Nelf hating horde fan opposed to the faction he considers his enemy and the elven group he hates the most - because every word he says is true, and I should ignore facts and what the game clearly shows and listen to him.

See, now you're getting it! This is a Horde echo chamber, and pro-Horde head canon is perfectly fine here. /resignedsarcasm

[Tanaria]

In the end night elfs would have had a problem with the night born nobility, you could have written the night born story in a way that they would have put an end to their noble people but they did not. I think night elf mages are fine, even Orcs got mages.. and who is more savage then orcs!?
Night Elfs for most of WoW were not the savage elf race that they were with WC3. With BFA they made the first step back into that direction and they might continue it with the night warrior stuff. Its kind of interesting that they now need to introduce some new dark thing to correct course with the race so something they should have been for all of wow.
Night Elfs are no savage, they just have a fighting style that is savage.
I can imagine a mage with a savage/reckless fighting style.
But if the warfront is any kind of indicator how night elf mages are portrayed most of the interaction will be with Shen'dralar which bring in their nobility customs.
Currently its hard to say which directions it will go, but as soon as we know what happens with the night elfs in shadowlands we can probably better evaluate how Shen'dralar and mages fits into that. What probably will always be the case: they will be never more then the sidekick in the night elf story telling.

If the Shen'dralar are nothing more than a small branch, that suits me.

Night Elves need to come back to the way they fought Grommash Hellscream - making them the most savage elven race, he has ever encountered. That is the Night Elves. They don't need Zin-Azshari-style cities back.

See, now you're getting it! This is a Horde echo chamber, and pro-Horde head canon is perfectly fine here. /resignedsarcasm

This is people needing to accept the basic fact that Blizzard shouldn't be writing the Shen'dralar as a major role in Night Elf society. The Night Elves helped fight off major threats without the Shen'dralar - they can do so again and again.
They fought off the Satyrs, Demons, Scourge, the Lich King (who was also a great threat to Elune.)

[Beloren]

If the Shen'dralar are nothing more than a small branch, that suits me.

Night Elves need to come back to the way they fought Grommash Hellscream - making them the most savage elven race, he has ever encountered. That is the Night Elves. They don't need Zin-Azshari-style cities back.

Speak for yourself, why would you care if they did or didn't - you don't like them, they can't only live in trees either. Anyway, you should be spending more time caring for the development of Silvermoon instead of wasting time on night elves. What Ravenmoon, Mace, Ardensao, Feanoro and those alliance goons don't seem to realise yet is that it doesn't matter how good they appear on paper or how bad, - humans are always going to rule the alliance, and blood elves the horde = blood elves will always be > than night elves.

I've always felt night elves were a bit pathetic.. who spends 10,000 years couped up in a city or just going in circles in a forest? I mean it's boring as shit. Them having Zin'Azshari like cities or living in caves isn't going to change that aspect about them because it's the core of who the race is.

They're an introvert, conservative, protectionist bunch who are basically all work work work focused on their causes - this makes for boring and bland, and ancient. Unlike some of the "traitorous" blood elves who were smart and justified in the decisions they took, but are called "treacherous" - like they owed the alliance anything and hadn't more than compensated them for that help a long time ago with the trolls. I am quite proud to say I never liked the Nightborne. Suramar was pretty, but I didn't like it that much, and I much prefer the gold/red, green scheme the blood elves have. And i don't like Thalyssra, she is preachy, self righteous and then goes and betrays herself by working with the Sylvanas - I would have preferred Elisande as their leader a 100 times over, at least she would have schooled Jaina (amateur super saiyan - in how it's done) - nightobnre are wasted, I was expecintg some hardcore version of the night elves, but they gave the lame rebels and double minded weak ass Thalssyra. But we get a nice city.

I also prefer the blood elf story, lore, character - they're not afraid to embrace new things, and are willing to put aside their traditional beliefs and morality to do what needs to be done to survive. they will never let themselves be weak again to the likes of humans. Rommath, Lor'themar, Halduron, Liadrin, they are who theya re and true to their character.

Meanwhile Night elves can't shut up about human potential. Their druids literally hug trees all day, and I'm not about to be jealous of their mages, they can rebuild 10 cities, they will not be able to beat a single blood elf. e.g. look at them now, it's been nearly 20 years since WC3, and 10 years since they started using magic again, and still they're not using the Well of Eternity.

More concerned about being addicted than just going for it. Addiction? Yeh, we had it, but we dealt with it, we found our own solutions and we kept pushing forward.

I'm not sure why you or anyone thinks rebuilding Zin'Azshari or Suramar for the Night elves is progress - real progress is moving forward, and doing something greater. But even their fans are limited. It took them till BFA to start moaning about how shit their race was treated, they actually took the treatment for most of wow - if I were a developer, I'd think they liked it.

This is people needing to accept the basic fact that Blizzard shouldn't be writing the Shen'dralar as a major role in Night Elf society. The Night Elves helped fight off major threats without the Shen'dralar - they can do so again and again.
They fought off the Satyrs, Demons, Scourge, the Lich King (who was also a great threat to Elune.)

No, people need to accept the fact that night elves aren't all that, they never were - and there is a good reason why all the "cool" stuff is in the books - and why blizzard feel that cool elven stuff whether it's from the night elves or the high elves, needs to be on the horde.

If you ask me, NElf fans just aren't accepting their reality. I think you' are a bit wrong here too, bottom line we don't know what the developers would really do, but one thing we do know is every time they buff the alliance, they really buff the horde, so, if they do Shen'dralar or whatever up, I am almost 100% certain they'll follow by doing something for blood elves and if not them, then Nightborne, which would benefit blood elves.

p.s. - this is how you own alliance fans, use the facts to point out some hard truths, if you post rubbish, Ravenmoon and the other alliance cronies would respond with essays and the usual horde fans are crazy bias b/s, but they can't say a word against this, cos they know deep down it's true.

[Tanaria]

Speak for yourself, why would you care if they did or didn't - you don't like them, they can't only live in trees either. Anyway, you should be spending more time caring for the development of Silvermoon instead of wasting time on night elves. What Ravenmoon, Mace, Ardensao, Feanoro and those alliance goons don't seem to realise yet is that it doesn't matter how good they appear on paper or how bad, - humans are always going to rule the alliance, and blood elves the horde = blood elves will always be > than night elves.

I've always felt night elves were a bit pathetic.. who spends 10,000 years couped up in a city or just going in circles in a forest? I mean it's boring as shit. Them having Zin'Azshari like cities or living in caves isn't going to change that aspect about them because it's the core of who the race is.

They're an introvert, conservative, protectionist bunch who are basically all work work work focused on their causes - this makes for boring and bland, and ancient. Unlike some of the "traitorous" blood elves who were smart and justified in the decisions they took, but are called "treacherous" - like they owed the alliance anything and hadn't more than compensated them for that help a long time ago with the trolls. I am quite proud to say I never liked the Nightborne. Suramar was pretty, but I didn't like it that much, and I much prefer the gold/red, green scheme the blood elves have. And i don't like Thalyssra, she is preachy, self righteous and then goes and betrays herself by working with the Sylvanas - I would have preferred Elisande as their leader a 100 times over, at least she would have schooled Jaina (amateur super saiyan - in how it's done) - nightobnre are wasted, I was expecintg some hardcore version of the night elves, but they gave the lame rebels and double minded weak ass Thalssyra. But we get a nice city.

I also prefer the blood elf story, lore, character - they're not afraid to embrace new things, and are willing to put aside their traditional beliefs and morality to do what needs to be done to survive. they will never let themselves be weak again to the likes of humans. Rommath, Lor'themar, Halduron, Liadrin, they are who theya re and true to their character.

Meanwhile Night elves can't shut up about human potential. Their druids literally hug trees all day, and I'm not about to be jealous of their mages, they can rebuild 10 cities, they will not be able to beat a single blood elf. e.g. look at them now, it's been nearly 20 years since WC3, and 10 years since they started using magic again, and still they're not using the Well of Eternity.

More concerned about being addicted than just going for it. Addiction? Yeh, we had it, but we dealt with it, we found our own solutions and we kept pushing forward.

I'm not sure why you or anyone thinks rebuilding Zin'Azshari or Suramar for the Night elves is progress - real progress is moving forward, and doing something greater. But even their fans are limited. It took them till BFA to start moaning about how shit their race was treated, they actually took the treatment for most of wow - if I were a developer, I'd think they liked it.




No, people need to accept the fact that night elves aren't all that, they never were - and there is a good reason why all the "cool" stuff is in the books - and why blizzard feel that cool elven stuff whether it's from the night elves or the high elves, needs to be on the horde.

If you ask me, NElf fans just aren't accepting their reality. I think you' are a bit wrong here too, bottom line we don't know what the developers would really do, but one thing we do know is every time they buff the alliance, they really buff the horde, so, if they do Shen'dralar or whatever up, I am almost 100% certain they'll follow by doing something for blood elves and if not them, then Nightborne, which would benefit blood elves.

p.s. - this is how you own alliance fans, use the facts to point out some hard truths, if you post rubbish, Ravenmoon and the other alliance cronies would respond with essays and the usual horde fans are crazy bias b/s, but they can't say a word against this, cos they know deep down it's true.

I'm not sure what you are reading, if you think I support Night Elf cities like "Zin-Azshari" and "Suramar" being rebuilt or given to the Night Elves.
I've literally said in that very comment that they don't need cities like that.

Also, I take issue with how your trying to pass off that because Humans and Blood Elves are the main races and that the story should be built around them. That's regression of story. I love Blood Elves, but I don't want the entire Horde story to focus on them, just to please the blood elf fans. Those sorts of ideas are the reasons why blood elf fans are mocked - because we think we should own the Horde story and we simply shouldn't. Every race get it's time in the sun.

Regarding the Nightborne - Elisande was evil. She couldn't see past her own vision and she failed. Thalyssra was and is the better choice and can I remind you that just because you hold a hatred towards the Nightborne - it doesn't mean they shouldn't get a story. The Nightborne will get story where it fits. Probably - it won't be in Shadowlands, because it doesn't make sense, but when Azshara returns, the Nightborne will be back.
It's fine that you absolutely love blood elves, but please refrain from trying to say that all other races should essentially, be "cancelled" in favor of them. It spews a bad idea that has gotten us elf fans a bad name.

[Mace]

Speak for yourself, why would you care if they did or didn't - you don't like them, they can't only live in trees either. Anyway, you should be spending more time caring for the development of Silvermoon instead of wasting time on night elves. What Ravenmoon, Mace, Ardensao, Feanoro and those alliance goons don't seem to realise yet is that it doesn't matter how good they appear on paper or how bad, - humans are always going to rule the alliance, and blood elves the horde = blood elves will always be > than night elves.

I've always felt night elves were a bit pathetic.. who spends 10,000 years couped up in a city or just going in circles in a forest? I mean it's boring as shit. Them having Zin'Azshari like cities or living in caves isn't going to change that aspect about them because it's the core of who the race is.

They're an introvert, conservative, protectionist bunch who are basically all work work work focused on their causes - this makes for boring and bland, and ancient. Unlike some of the "traitorous" blood elves who were smart and justified in the decisions they took, but are called "treacherous" - like they owed the alliance anything and hadn't more than compensated them for that help a long time ago with the trolls. I am quite proud to say I never liked the Nightborne. Suramar was pretty, but I didn't like it that much, and I much prefer the gold/red, green scheme the blood elves have. And i don't like Thalyssra, she is preachy, self righteous and then goes and betrays herself by working with the Sylvanas - I would have preferred Elisande as their leader a 100 times over, at least she would have schooled Jaina (amateur super saiyan - in how it's done) - nightobnre are wasted, I was expecintg some hardcore version of the night elves, but they gave the lame rebels and double minded weak ass Thalssyra. But we get a nice city.

I also prefer the blood elf story, lore, character - they're not afraid to embrace new things, and are willing to put aside their traditional beliefs and morality to do what needs to be done to survive. they will never let themselves be weak again to the likes of humans. Rommath, Lor'themar, Halduron, Liadrin, they are who theya re and true to their character.

Meanwhile Night elves can't shut up about human potential. Their druids literally hug trees all day, and I'm not about to be jealous of their mages, they can rebuild 10 cities, they will not be able to beat a single blood elf. e.g. look at them now, it's been nearly 20 years since WC3, and 10 years since they started using magic again, and still they're not using the Well of Eternity.

More concerned about being addicted than just going for it. Addiction? Yeh, we had it, but we dealt with it, we found our own solutions and we kept pushing forward.

I'm not sure why you or anyone thinks rebuilding Zin'Azshari or Suramar for the Night elves is progress - real progress is moving forward, and doing something greater. But even their fans are limited. It took them till BFA to start moaning about how shit their race was treated, they actually took the treatment for most of wow - if I were a developer, I'd think they liked it.

Yes you hate night elves, no news to us, even though you sometimes pretend to be understanding and reasponable. You're entitled to your opinion, but what you don't like some of us like a lot, and they are a lot more interesting than how you've put it.

Furthermore, having cities in addition to forests makes a lot of difference, it makes night elves feel like people, like an actual race, gives them a sense of culture and a different pace to them. It also makes them diversified. @Tanaria There is not a single playable race in the game that you have to stare at one terrain and they have nothing else - races like that in Warcraft exist, but they're not playable because they don't have the range or depth fot he highest function.

And if you 2 expect night elves who have warcraft's Azeroth based mortal races leading and fore most civilization oof all time to only be restricted to forest (Tanaria) or not matter either way (Enigmaddict), then you simply don't understand the point of having races and why each has it's own story and purpose/function.

You also clearly ignore what is shown about the night elves (Tanaria - who thinks all night elven arcana should be tiny and obscure forever because he only wants blood elves to look civilized and spectacular) and what we read about them (enigmaddict - who seems to think it wouldn't make a difference anyway reagardless).

No, people need to accept the fact that night elves aren't all that, they never were - and there is a good reason why all the "cool" stuff is in the books - and why blizzard feel that cool elven stuff whether it's from the night elves or the high elves, needs to be on the horde.

If blizzard want to keep shooting themselves in the foot by needlessly nerfing or suppressing one of their more original races with the best set up outside humans and orcs, sure, let them continue to pointlessly nerf and obscure night elves, or just write them off as cliched, forest elves abandoning their original unique duality and multiple aspects in exchange for yet another forest elf race in the 100s we have in nearly every fantasy game - sure make one of warcrafts most iconic races into that. They might as well rename them Wood elves and change the name to Children of the Forest - whatever it is the Cenarius race call themselves in Darnassian.

If you ask me, NElf fans just aren't accepting their reality. I think you' are a bit wrong here too, bottom line we don't know what the developers would really do, but one thing we do know is every time they buff the alliance, they really buff the horde, so, if they do Shen'dralar or whatever up, I am almost 100% certain they'll follow by doing something for blood elves and if not them, then Nightborne, which would benefit blood elves.

And you honestly think this is good for the game or the fans...pfft

p.s. - this is how you own alliance fans, use the facts to point out some hard truths, if you post rubbish, Ravenmoon and the other alliance cronies would respond with essays and the usual horde fans are crazy bias b/s, but they can't say a word against this, cos they know deep down it's true.

Pfft, hard truths my - it's plain ol faction hate a nd rivalry - that's all ti is with you guys.

[Ardenaso]

What Ravenmoon, Mace, Ardensao, Feanoro and those alliance goons don't seem to realise yet is that it doesn't matter how good they appear on paper or how bad, - humans are always going to rule the alliance

perhaps I didn't scream enough for Anduin the Horde bootlicker to be forcibly removed from the Alliance

[Tanaria]

I'll keep to playing my savage night elf, forest-based classes, because they are the night elves that I care about.
I want to be a savage female night elf warrior, a ferocious feral night elf druidess and a subtle and deadly night elf rogue. Also a night elf death knight, just for extra savagery and controversy.

Night Elves didn't need cities for over 10,000 years and I see no reason as to why they need one. Obviously, in this sort of setting, getting a city is right, but I think it should resemble the Black Moon Army. Mathystra, Lor'danel and Bashal'Aran can be joined together to make one big city, reflective of the Black Moon Army and it's Sentinels, Wardens and Druids.

Blood Elves and Nightborne are Elves that suit the city-lifestyle because it's the only lifestyle they've ever known. The Shen'dralar are exiles of Dire Maul, who spent years roaming the wilds after the Horde drove them out. All sectors of night elf society are used to the forest life and Blizzard should make that unique, instead of pushing them to something we've got - twice over.
I'd even go as far to say that if the Zin-Azshari ruins could be teleported to Kalimdor or raised, then the Void Elves suit the city better, because of it's lore with Demons and then, with the Void.

[Hellspawn]

I think a city for night elfs should be really well integrated into their woods, like the temple of Elune in Val'shara.
I think you can integrate a sanctum for mages there too, its just not a major aspect there (compared to blood elf or night born where almost every aspect of them has that arcane/magic vibe).

Thats why I think Hyjal should host the night elf main hub, it is the home of life, ferocity, it houses most of druid wild gods. Just like the Zandalari have their Loa shrines around their cities.

Thats also another point, making all these druids things partial neutral really hurt the night elfs so what I want to see them either tune done on the druid aspects of the night elfs and focus on all the others (priesthood and so on) or make some of these aspects side with the night elfs. Like we see some stone giants in BFA or Cenarius driving Goblins out of his woods. Hyjal should be the home of the night elfs and not some tree on the sea.

There are some fan concept art that go into the right direction...



(artists: https://www.artstation.com/senseilamp-ao)

Night Elves didn't need cities for over 10,000 years and I see no reason as to why they need one. Obviously, in this sort of setting, getting a city is right, but I think it should resemble the Black Moon Army. Mathystra, Lor'danel and Bashal'Aran can be joined together to make one big city, reflective of the Black Moon Army and it's Sentinels, Wardens and Druids.

I also hope that the black moon army will be a thing they will explore more in the future. Also I hope their new banner becomes the new night elf symbol which makes more sense to me then the tree. It can be also found in the reworked warsong gulch.

[Feanoro]

Speak for yourself, why would you care if they did or didn't - you don't like them, they can't only live in trees either. Anyway, you should be spending more time caring for the development of Silvermoon instead of wasting time on night elves. What Ravenmoon, Mace, Ardensao, Feanoro and those alliance goons don't seem to realise yet is that it doesn't matter how good they appear on paper or how bad, - humans are always going to rule the alliance, and blood elves the horde = blood elves will always be > than night elves.

Then you've somehow managed to completely miss a great deal of what this "goon" has written. Nice ad hom by the way. Blizzard has little to no interest in writing Alliance and takes the easy way out, namely writing the bare minimum of Humans and Pals.

It took them till BFA to start moaning about how shit their race was treated, they actually took the treatment for most of wow - if I were a developer, I'd think they liked it.

You're joking, right? People were pissed they were in the Alliance in vanilla in the watered down state. Blizz didn't give a shit. People were pissed they were given the Worf treatment in Cata. Blizz didn't give a shit. NElves were thrown a bone in the Broken Isles, and since the precious Horde wasn't used to being anything but the center of attention by then, they raged. Blizz proceeded to give Nightborne and Suramar to the Horde. Here's some recolored BElves and a rock, fuck you. By BfA, you'd have to be willfully blind to not understand that Blizz doesn't give a shit.

No, people need to accept the fact that night elves aren't all that, they never were - and there is a good reason why all the "cool" stuff is in the books - and why blizzard feel that cool elven stuff whether it's from the night elves or the high elves, needs to be on the horde.

People need to accept that the writers only give a damn about writing Horde.

p.s. - this is how you own alliance fans, use the facts to point out some hard truths, if you post rubbish, Ravenmoon and the other alliance cronies would respond with essays and the usual horde fans are crazy bias b/s, but they can't say a word against this, cos they know deep down it's true.

Oh yeah, so owning people, using vague statements, your opinions, and making the case for us that Blizz is biased towards the Horde. The funny part is how Hordies fail to understand that one sided crap is a large part of why the franchise has been declining for years.

- - - Updated - - -

perhaps I didn't scream enough for Anduin the Horde bootlicker to be forcibly removed from the Alliance

It's hard for him to read our posts when he's too busy pretending his darker, edgier elves have done a single thing since TBC.

[Mace]

I think a city for night elfs should be really well integrated into their woods, like the temple of Elune in Val'shara.
I think you can integrate a sanctum for mages there too, its just not a major aspect there (compared to blood elf or night born where almost every aspect of them has that arcane/magic vibe).

Thats why I think Hyjal should host the night elf main hub, it is the home of life, ferocity, it houses most of druid wild gods. Just like the Zandalari have their Loa shrines around their cities.

Thats also another point, making all these druids things partial neutral really hurt the night elfs so what I want to see them either tune done on the druid aspects of the night elfs and focus on all the others (priesthood and so on) or make some of these aspects side with the night elfs. Like we see some stone giants in BFA or Cenarius driving Goblins out of his woods. Hyjal should be the home of the night elfs and not some tree on the sea.

There are some fan concept art that go into the right direction...
https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets...jpg?1587856621
https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets...jpg?1577678106
https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets...jpg?1577677125
(artists: https://www.artstation.com/senseilamp-ao)



I also hope that the black moon army will be a thing they will explore more in the future. Also I hope their new banner becomes the new night elf symbol which makes more sense to me then the tree. It can be also found in the reworked warsong gulch.

interesting CONCEPT could work. I imagined the best night elf capital would be a great city - presundering style, surrounded by a great forest with druid culture living in barrow dens and tree homes just like in Val'Sharah (it won't be close enough to be a city - because druids don't do that, what we see in Val'Sharah is perfect), what we see of Zin'Azshari and Suramar is perfect for the actual city bit, and it needs a grand Cathedral , like the CoEN as the HQ of the order of Elune. We can't have the capital's temples looking like a normal temple in Val'Sharah or the one in Darnassus based on the clcassic models

[Lahis]

Those are nice pieces of fan art, but we all know there will be no new Night Elf city.

[ravenmoon]

@

EnigmAddict

- gosh you getting really cocky these days, learn a bit of lore and you think you know it all now, and on top of that know how everyone else thinks. It's typical of some horde fans to feel they deserve and are entitled to the best, and for osme of them, everyone else permanently falling short is a requirement.
@

Tanaria

that describes you quite well here huh.

My responses to you and interest in this topic is not to see night elves have a great global spanning civilization i.e. empire nor massive urbanisation - you switche dto Tanaria just to object to a point that wasn't even being made - showing me that this is what you fear the most and want the least for night elves.

That you would do so exposes your motivation too, because you have no interest in the race, so why do you want them all, including ones that have nothing to do with that sort of living, to live basically like animals? Seeing how you love sophisticated people and high civilziation so much, but are suggesting the opposing factions elves live only in forests despite their lore and racial background making them suitable for diverse habitats - in particular city, forests and temples.

I'm not sure how having 1 beautiful night elven city is somehow a threat to the mighty horde or the identity of the horde elves, especially a racial based city - I am really perplexed, nor do I understand how having one suddenly makes the night elves som great arcanised elven group either.

i

nteresting CONCEPT could work. I imagined the best night elf capital would be a great city - presundering style, surrounded by a great forest with druid culture living in barrow dens and tree homes just like in Val'Sharah (it won't be close enough to be a city - because druids don't do that, what we see in Val'Sharah is perfect), what we see of Zin'Azshari and Suramar is perfect for the actual city bit, and it needs a grand Cathedral , like the CoEN as the HQ of the order of Elune. We can't have the capital's temples looking like a normal temple in Val'Sharah or the one in Darnassus based on the clcassic models

@

Mace

- what you say sounds like exactly what suramr zone connected to Val'Sharah and borkens hore is.

Main night elven city, with huge forest outside on one end, on the other end is the huge temple, and then fel swept areas, it's basically a capital that can have everyone - priests in the Cathedral, demon hunters on the broken shore, druids in the forest outside lieading into Val'Sharah. Even got a lake in the middle.

The broken isle nelf zones have something from and for every group and facet of the n ight elves, and it's done in 3 -4 zones basically the size of the Stormwind kingdom zones

[Tanaria]

interesting CONCEPT could work. I imagined the best night elf capital would be a great city - presundering style, surrounded by a great forest with druid culture living in barrow dens and tree homes just like in Val'Sharah (it won't be close enough to be a city - because druids don't do that, what we see in Val'Sharah is perfect), what we see of Zin'Azshari and Suramar is perfect for the actual city bit, and it needs a grand Cathedral , like the CoEN as the HQ of the order of Elune. We can't have the capital's temples looking like a normal temple in Val'Sharah or the one in Darnassus based on the clcassic models

The CoEN or Tomb of Sargeras, for lack of a better wording, is far too big to work practically.
The best we can hope for is a Temple of Elune that is/was the size of Darnassus' Temple or Isildien's Temple.

Despite reservations, Darnassus' Temple did become the center of all Elune's disciples.

And I'm not in favor of having a copy/paste city to that of Suramar. The Night Elves are now very different to the Nightborne, in terms of goals and what has happened. In BFA, nothing has happened to the Nightborne in Suramar, whilst the Night Elves - pretty much, they were displaced. What I am in favor of is the new night elf styles that we see Val'sharah and in Warsong Gulch - yes, let's have that, but what I do not want is a copy/paste of Suramar or Zin-Azshari. It's got to be new, but it should be symbolic to the actions of the Black Moon Army.
That does mean, perhaps a small building for the Mages/Gilnean Warlocks and something else for the Worgen and Gilnean humans.

The city should scream "Black Moon" as that is the most recent and newest and now, well known army of the night elves. The night elf mages are simply not part of that army in a large presence.

I'm not sure how having 1 beautiful night elven city is somehow a threat to the mighty horde or the identity of the horde elves, especially a racial based city - I am really perplexed, nor do I understand how having one suddenly makes the night elves som great arcanised elven group either.

Because a copy/paste from another race, thrice over is not creative nor imaginative.
Have the new night elf building styles we see in Val'Sharah and Warsong Gulch - but keep it relative to the Night Elves and also to the Black Moon Army. The ties to the army, create a story to show the developments they have made, which could happen after the Shadowlands.

[ravenmoon]

Because a copy/paste from another race, thrice over is not creative nor imaginative.
Have the new night elf building styles we see in Val'Sharah and Warsong Gulch - but keep it relative to the Night Elves and also to the Black Moon Army. The ties to the army, create a story to show the developments they have made, which could happen after the Shadowlands.

Well it's certainly not a copy paste from another race. Is Suramar a copy paste from another race? Is Zin'Azshari a copy paste from another race. is Eldre'thalas a copy paste? Has anyone ever once suggested they copy Dalaran or Silvermoon for that matter.

Suramar, Eldre'thala and Zin'Azshari are night elven cities. I'm still sensing jealousy. i.e. if Night elves have a pretty city also, they'd be appealing, and no one should be more appealing than blood elves or the horde, because that's my faction. I would examine my motives.

Creating Tanaria and coming on just to knock on any night elven discussion that veers towards getting nicer stuff is pretty transparent you know. Most neutrals would be happy to see blizzard do nicer stuff than before.

[Mace]

Because a copy/paste from another race, thrice over is not creative nor imaginative.
Have the new night elf building styles we see in Val'Sharah and Warsong Gulch - but keep it relative to the Night Elves and also to the Black Moon Army. The ties to the army, create a story to show the developments they have made, which could happen after the Shadowlands.

If you cared that much, you shuld have been complaining that Suramar was too much like another race. Oh wait, it wasn't. Nor did I notice you complaining about how Zin'Azshari lokoed like another race.. or wait you didn't, because it isn't. You are only complaining about playable night elves getting a city that looks great. You're fine If it's in the distant past, or belongs to a faction that's gone horde. This is entirely faction bias, there is no logic or lore basis, it's not a neutral motivated desire, you're a horde fan that doesn't want night elves to get the really awesome stuff as said above, because it may mean your fave is no longer the envy of the races.

Reminds me of those women than get jealous when someone eleses man shows up to be cooler or better than theirs, they hate it, as long as others perecieve he is amazing they hate it. One word? JEALOUSY.

The CoEN or Tomb of Sargeras, for lack of a better wording, is far too big to work practically.
The best we can hope for is a Temple of Elune that is/was the size of Darnassus' Temple or Isildien's Temple.

That's the idea of an Order Capital temple.

Despite reservations, Darnassus' Temple did become the center of all Elune's disciples.

Reservations? Well, at least you noticed that. Anyone who thinks priests who worship in temples to a Moon Goddess their race has dedicated the most beautiful architecture too in esteem of their beloved deity would prefer to live in a cave or tree instead of a temple is out of their mind.

Yet, you seem to suddenly forget that night elves have priests, highborne, demon hunters, and non-druidic civilians who prefer other types of habitat than forests. You can love forests as well (who says you are limited to only liking one type of habitation?), loving doesn't necessarily mean you want to live there - I am saying this for all those who seem to want to confine ALL night elves ever to living in trees and caves - because their elves on the opposite faction have to be the best, and the only way they can envision that Is if the opposition are little more than savage little beasts.

And I'm not in favor of having a copy/paste city to that of Suramar. The Night Elves are now very different to the Nightborne, in terms of goals and what has happened. In BFA, nothing has happened to the Nightborne in Suramar, whilst the Night Elves - pretty much, they were displaced. What I am in favor of is the new night elf styles that we see Val'sharah and in Warsong Gulch - yes, let's have that, but what I do not want is a copy/paste of Suramar or Zin-Azshari. It's got to be new, but it should be symbolic to the actions of the Black Moon Army.
That does mean, perhaps a small building for the Mages/Gilnean Warlocks and something else for the Worgen and Gilnean humans.

No, you're not in favour of night elves on the alliance having gorgeous cities that rival or surpass that of the horde factions' elves that what it is. Try as you might to make it look like cities and temples in places like Suramar and Zin'Azsahri are no longer night elven (because the Long vigil lived only in forests) is a lame excuse. You're quite happy to accept night elven temples in Val'Sharah (also pre-sundering) and rural buildings like the lodges in WInterspring and Auberdine (also pre-sundering style) as Night elven, but the minute it is a grand scale and actually looks like a city (not like a manor palace estate (Darnassus)) and its grand, any excuse why alliance night elves can't have it - "oh they don't do civilization" " oh they're forest elves" "oh, they're ripping off other races" "oh, that's not what night elves are" - lol... it's so plain to see.

The city should scream "Black Moon" as that is the most recent and newest and now, well known army of the night elves. The night elf mages are simply not part of that army in a large presence.

Lol, so night elves don't have mages because you didn't see any in the new sect - right. Oh and it's not a night elf city any longer because it doesn't have something that fits a new aesthetic that the black moon should have.

Hey blizzard, you need to desing a whole new set for night elves again, because the stuff you have for them in Suramar, Zin'Azshari, the various temples are not good enough and they encroach on the horde races. Yes blizzard, the Highborne and the night elven arcane legacy is for the horde, we like it because it's pwetty and therefore only the horde should have it.

So we'll ocme on forums, on every night elf post, and spout our weird mental gymnastics, so we can get the horde crowd on board, just because at the end of the day, w'ere jealso that the night elves could actually have something incredible in their racial assets.

So please design a whole new aesthetic for them for the 3rd time, ignore other races too, simply because the quite beautiful night elven architecture you did, is too good for the night elves, and only acceptable if they're on the horde.

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- what you say sounds like exactly what suramr zone connected to Val'Sharah and borkens hore is.

Main night elven city, with huge forest outside on one end, on the other end is the huge temple, and then fel swept areas, it's basically a capital that can have everyone - priests in the Cathedral, demon hunters on the broken shore, druids in the forest outside lieading into Val'Sharah. Even got a lake in the middle.

The broken isle nelf zones have something from and for every group and facet of the n ight elves, and it's done in 3 -4 zones basically the size of the Stormwind kingdom zones

Dude, what do you do to your posts, they're such a nightmare to quote.

I was thinking more like a new city, like a rebuilt Zin'Azshari, full of gardens (even on rooftops) with a lake of water, and a great forest surrounding it fully, and also a great temple.

[ravenmoon]

The city should scream "Black Moon" as that is the most recent and newest and now, well known army of the night elves. The night elf mages are simply not part of that army in a large presence.

I really don't think blizzard is going to change night elf architecture again, not for at least another decade. Certainly not for a sect that is based on existing orders. Darkside of the moon doesn't warrant the night elves building a different type of temple, because the Night warrior and the phase is not something new, it was pre-sundering aspect of the priesthood. The most they might get is a different colour scheme.

Also you don't see high elves/void elves having different architecture from blood elves, just a different colour scheme. I don't see why you might think Night elves all of a sudden would change the architectural style in Zin'Azshari or Suramar when it comes to cities. Temple of Elune Darnassus showed that after 10k years, when they build stuff they build it the same.

When the models were updated with legion, you also saw the ruins updated in the redone zone of Darkshore - that is because it's a model update, not a lore update - just like the Zandalari model changed in MoP, or the blood elf model changed in TBC - it's an update.

Night elf architecture is everything you see in Suramar, Azsuna, Val'Sharah, Zin'Azshari (warbringers and Naz'jatar), Broken SHore and Darkshore (updated) and everything you see in Ashenvale, Teldrassil, Feralas, Desolace, Azshara, Darkshore, Felwood, Moonglade and Hyjal (classic model style). The Nightborne are mostly going to use the city stuff, being a night elven sub-race - I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. we'd be lucky if we got something new that was amazing, but I bet we won't. @Feanoro is spot on. We should know blizzard by now.

I was thinking more like a new city, like a rebuilt Zin'Azshari, full of gardens (even on rooftops) with a lake of water, and a great forest surrounding it fully, and also a great temple.

Still Suramar design. A great central night elven city that extends into broken shore, Azsuna and Val'Sharah does this very very well. All areas that cater to every aspect of the night elves.

[Tanaria]

If you cared that much, you shuld have been complaining that Suramar was too much like another race. Oh wait, it wasn't. Nor did I notice you complaining about how Zin'Azshari lokoed like another race.. or wait you didn't, because it isn't. You are only complaining about playable night elves getting a city that looks great. You're fine If it's in the distant past, or belongs to a faction that's gone horde. This is entirely faction bias, there is no logic or lore basis, it's not a neutral motivated desire, you're a horde fan that doesn't want night elves to get the really awesome stuff as said above, because it may mean your fave is no longer the envy of the races.

Reminds me of those women than get jealous when someone eleses man shows up to be cooler or better than theirs, they hate it, as long as others perecieve he is amazing they hate it. One word? JEALOUSY.



That's the idea of an Order Capital temple.


Reservations? Well, at least you noticed that. Anyone who thinks priests who worship in temples to a Moon Goddess their race has dedicated the most beautiful architecture too in esteem of their beloved deity would prefer to live in a cave or tree instead of a temple is out of their mind.

Yet, you seem to suddenly forget that night elves have priests, highborne, demon hunters, and non-druidic civilians who prefer other types of habitat than forests. You can love forests as well (who says you are limited to only liking one type of habitation?), loving doesn't necessarily mean you want to live there - I am saying this for all those who seem to want to confine ALL night elves ever to living in trees and caves - because their elves on the opposite faction have to be the best, and the only way they can envision that Is if the opposition are little more than savage little beasts.




No, you're not in favour of night elves on the alliance having gorgeous cities that rival or surpass that of the horde factions' elves that what it is. Try as you might to make it look like cities and temples in places like Suramar and Zin'Azsahri are no longer night elven (because the Long vigil lived only in forests) is a lame excuse. You're quite happy to accept night elven temples in Val'Sharah (also pre-sundering) and rural buildings like the lodges in WInterspring and Auberdine (also pre-sundering style) as Night elven, but the minute it is a grand scale and actually looks like a city (not like a manor palace estate (Darnassus)) and its grand, any excuse why alliance night elves can't have it - "oh they don't do civilization" " oh they're forest elves" "oh, they're ripping off other races" "oh, that's not what night elves are" - lol... it's so plain to see.



Lol, so night elves don't have mages because you didn't see any in the new sect - right. Oh and it's not a night elf city any longer because it doesn't have something that fits a new aesthetic that the black moon should have.

Hey blizzard, you need to desing a whole new set for night elves again, because the stuff you have for them in Suramar, Zin'Azshari, the various temples are not good enough and they encroach on the horde races. Yes blizzard, the Highborne and the night elven arcane legacy is for the horde, we like it because it's pwetty and therefore only the horde should have it.

So we'll ocme on forums, on every night elf post, and spout our weird mental gymnastics, so we can get the horde crowd on board, just because at the end of the day, w'ere jealso that the night elves could actually have something incredible in their racial assets.

So please design a whole new aesthetic for them for the 3rd time, ignore other races too, simply because the quite beautiful night elven architecture you did, is too good for the night elves, and only acceptable if they're on the horde.

Well, it's quite clear your not a Night Elf fan, as all you want is to rob off the Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei.
Everything that makes Blood Elves great, you want Blizzard to crap all over it, ruin their lore because "Night Elf Mage bias" and call that, good story.

Night Elves will NEVER surpass the Blood Elves in the field of Arcane. The Elves of wonderous, eternal Quel'Thalas, have already mastered the arcane that the Night Elves could only dream of doing. Shielding themselves away from the eye of Sargeras and his Eredar forces, Alexstrasza's corrupted children and the Orcish Warlocks is a feat the Shen'dralar could only dream of getting.

To even suggest that the Night Elven city should surpass the Blood Elven one, in the areas of magic is ridiculous, because it will never happen.

And Hellspawn's images are what we should all be looking at for new Night Elven cities. Hell, I can even see a few Highborne-style buildings in the background. There you go, you can have 2 or 3 Highborne buildings, but you shouldn't get anymore, because the city should feel "W3 Night Elf" like Darnassus did, not "Quel'Thalas/Suramar-styled, but Quel'Thalas/Suramar robbed the ideas from our new city."
And the more you two go on about night elf mages - the more I can't wait for Blood Elves to embarrass night elf mages all over, again

[Ardenaso]

Well, it's quite clear your not a Night Elf fan, as all you want is to rob off the Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei.
Everything that makes Blood Elves great, you want Blizzard to crap all over it, ruin their lore because "Night Elf Mage bias" and call that, good story.

Night Elves will NEVER surpass the Blood Elves in the field of Arcane. The Elves of wonderous, eternal Quel'Thalas, have already mastered the arcane that the Night Elves could only dream of doing. Shielding themselves away from the eye of Sargeras and his Eredar forces, Alexstrasza's corrupted children and the Orcish Warlocks is a feat the Shen'dralar could only dream of getting.

To even suggest that the Night Elven city should surpass the Blood Elven one, in the areas of magic is ridiculous, because it will never happen.

And Hellspawn's images are what we should all be looking at for new Night Elven cities. Hell, I can even see a few Highborne-style buildings in the background. There you go, you can have 2 or 3 Highborne buildings, but you shouldn't get anymore, because the city should feel "W3 Night Elf" like Darnassus did, not "Quel'Thalas/Suramar-styled, but Quel'Thalas/Suramar robbed the ideas from our new city."
And the more you two go on about night elf mages - the more I can't wait for Blood Elves to embarrass night elf mages all over, again

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[Tanaria]

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So...an irrelevant comment..."ok" indeed.

[Mace]

Well, it's quite clear your not a Night Elf fan, as all you want is to rob off the Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei.

This here is your tell.

That you think night elves having their own stuff, which they do is rubbing off the sin'dorei. And failing to see Nightborne's civilization and arcana is night elven. It's like saying the high elves or void elves are trying to rob the sin'dorei because their buildings and cities or arcane magic is the same or their fans want them to have a city.

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My eyes are constantly popping with the stuff he and Enigmaddict come up with, I mean these guys just reduce the horde fan side respect levels to new lows.

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What is fascinating is that he seems either unwilling or incapable of seeing where others are coming from even if he doesn't agree. He also doesn't come across as genuine or at least he is actually deceiving himself. I get the impression sometimes he and and the other fellow are just trolling us.

I looked at his past posts since he made Tanaria, and checked his other responses, he hasn't changed his tune one bit and has failed to take on board anything others have said. What's worse is that he has no lore based counter, it boils down to what he thinks and feels - not once does he admit "hey, I see this is how it is, but it should go this way..because …" (where he should then honestly say, I prefer it if only the blood elves had magic and civilization - which is basically what it boils down to.