Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[rrayy]

The difference is that one side has very damning video evidence to support their claims.

Of course, I expect you to hand-wave it away like everything else. It's like your superpower.

NO they don't. Kneeling on someone like that does not prove 100% those findings because you can come up with cases of that technique causing no damage. But you don't care about that because it is fact as long as it is the ruling you want. Findings are only fact irf they agree with your opinion in your mind. Bias personified.

[Machismo]

NO they don't. Kneeling on someone like that does not prove 100% those findings because you can come up with cases of that technique causing no damage. But you don't care about that because it is fact as long as it is the ruling you want. Findings are only fact irf they agree with your opinion in your mind. Bias personified.

So, he was just destined to die that day?

Evidence, please.

I love watching you defend racism and police brutality.

[rrayy]

I was the one asking you for proof that the independent examiner had no credibility.

You have yet to give me any proof, and yet you accuse others of hypocrisy. You're adorable

I am asking for your proof the ME had no credibility

Yoru dodging and avoidance tells me you don't have any.

[-aiko-]

NO they don't. Kneeling on someone like that does not prove 100% those findings because you can come up with cases of that technique causing no damage. But you don't care about that because it is fact as long as it is the ruling you want. Findings are only fact irf they agree with your opinion in your mind. Bias personified.

Jesus, you're the total embodiment of what you claim the rest of us to be. I never claimed 100% proof, I said it was supporting evidence. On one side, I have a report claiming cause of death was "underlying causes" and...that's about it. On the other side, I have a report of asphyxiation, along with a video of a man on the ground, clearly in distress, literally saying he can't breathe. Huh, I wonder which side I should lean towards...

[Egomaniac]

NO they don't. Kneeling on someone like that does not prove 100% those findings because you can come up with cases of that technique causing no damage. But you don't care about that because it is fact as long as it is the ruling you want. Findings are only fact irf they agree with your opinion in your mind. Bias personified.

I mean, the video has the man literally saying "I can't breathe" before he passes out from a lack of oxygen...which is evidence to support the whole "Asphyxia" thing...but I'm sure you've got another "reasonable" explanation...you always do...

[Belize]

I am asking for your proof the ME had no credibility

Yoru dodging and avoidance tells me you don't have any.

Let me explain to you how discourse works, since you seem to not know.
I ask you a question then you answer, then you ask me a question and I answer.


You don't get to dodge out of answering by making up BS and throwing out random accusations.



So, let me ask you again. What proof do you have that the independent examiner is not trustworthy.

[Machismo]

I am asking for your proof the ME had no credibility

Yoru dodging and avoidance tells me you don't have any.

So, you are admitting you cannot prove your claim.

Great!!!

[Jonnusthegreat]

"Both sides", "Narrative"

Being a racist is not a side nor a racist opinion is a narrative

I mean, it is. It's just a side that you don't agree with. You being unwilling to acknowledge it is a huge problem for change.

[rrayy]

Jesus, you're the total embodiment of what you claim the rest of us to be. I never claimed 100% proof, I said it was supporting evidence. On one side, I have a report claiming cause of death was "underlying causes" and...that's about it. On the other side, I have a report of asphyxiation, along with a video of a man on the ground, clearly in distress, literally saying he can't breathe. Huh, I wonder which side I should lean towards...

You shouldn't lean towards any side. But you already showed your bias because when the incident originally happened, you automatically made up your mind that it was strangulation. So, when a report came out that ruled what you made up your mind it to be, you immediately agreed with it. You should be looking at both reports equally and not be giving either one any more credibility than the other because both sides have have reason to be less than 100% truthful(Because the ME works for the State and the independent investigator was paid by the family) and both sides have legitimate merits. Hypertension with heart disease in a panicked and clausterphobic individual can lead to the same distress as stangulation can. If you are truly objective, you don't lean at all.

[Heran]

Jesus, you're the total embodiment of what you claim the rest of us to be. I never claimed 100% proof, I said it was supporting evidence. On one side, I have a report claiming cause of death was "underlying causes" and...that's about it. On the other side, I have a report of asphyxiation, along with a video of a man on the ground, clearly in distress, literally saying he can't breathe. Huh, I wonder which side I should lean towards...

Having trouble breathing is a symptom of heart problems as well though.

Not that I think it is, but someone stating they're having trouble breathing when they're being restrained doesn't have to mean they're actually being asphyxiated, they could have a heart problem that needs medical assistance asap. Lying down could exacerbate the trouble breathing if there's fluids in the lungs as a result of heart problems because it would spread across the the surface of the lungs.

In any case, the police officer shouldn't have done that and should have called for an ambulance when he said he couldn't breathe. If he did asphyxiate him, he should go to prison. If he didn't and it was a heart problem, he should still go to prison for his conduct towards someone suffering a heart problem and not providing medical assistance, it's basically willfully killing them by not providing it.

[rrayy]

Let me explain to you how discourse works, since you seem to not know.
I ask you a question then you answer, then you ask me a question and I answer.


You don't get to dodge out of answering by making up BS and throwing out random accusations.



So, let me ask you again. What proof do you have that the independent examiner is not trustworthy.

Yo accused the ME of bias first. I said you could makke the same accusations the other way. You still have not backed up your original claim. Since you accused first, you don't get dodge out of backing it up by accusing others of making up BS and throwing out random accusations. You did it first.

So again, What PROOF do you have that the ME is not trustworthy? Stop dodging.

[Inuyaki]

https://twitter.com/sweeeetdee_/stat...19103167107072

I'd like to know what this man did that called for these officers to silence him

I'm sure all the people usually touting about Free Speech will back me up here, right?

Holy ...

Are those cops even human anymore? I am not so sure.
That arrest is text book China.

I am baffled that this is happening in the US.
Every single cop that is standing there should be fired over this.

[rrayy]

Having trouble breathing is a symptom of heart problems as well though.

Not that I think it is, but someone stating they're having trouble breathing when they're being restrained doesn't have to mean they're actually being asphyxiated, they could have a heart problem that needs medical assistance asap.

In any case, the police officer shouldn't have done that and should have called for an ambulance when he said he couldn't breathe. If he did asphyxiate him, he should go to prison. If he didn't and it was a heart problem, he should still go to prison for his conduct towards someone suffering a heart problem and not providing medical assistance, it's basically willfully killing them by not providing it.

Exactly. As it is, he will go to prison because the 3rd degree murder charge only requires that the act of the policeman contributed to the mans death. The ME's findings confirm that the act of the police did contribute to his death ie their restraint of him.

[Endus]

You shouldn't lean towards any side. But you already showed your bias because when the incident originally happened, you automatically made up your mind that it was strangulation. So, who a report came out that ruled what you made up your mind it to be, you immediately agreed with it.

Wrong.

We also have plenty of video of the victim clearly stating that he's having trouble breathing. Which strongly suggests strangulation. When the victim themselves is essentially stating they're being strangled, we don't leap to the conclusion that it somehow can't be that.

It's like if the video shows the officer shooting the victim, and the victim says "you shot me!", and we can see the bullet holes in his shirt and the bleeding, and the ME's report says his death was due to "underlying causes". Yeah, we'd dispute that too, because it flies in the face of the evidence we have.

You should be looking at both reports equally and not be giving either one any more credibility than the other because both sides have have reason to be less than 100% truthful(Because the ME works for the State and the independent investigator was paid by the family)

This is you describing your personal biases and issues, and projecting them on everyone involved.

We should be evaluating the reports based on how they line up with the known evidence, not by making up fictions to justify ignoring evidence we dislike. Which is your entire argument.

and both sides have legitimate merits. Hypertension with heart disease in a panicked and clausterphobic individual can lead to the same distress as stangultation can. If you are truly objective, you don't lean at all.

And if you're exacerbating those conditions by applying pressure to his chest and neck, that is strangulation.

Having such issues is not an argument against strangulation, at all.

[Themius]

Holy ...

Are those cops even human anymore? I am not so sure.
That arrest is text book China.

I am baffled that this is happening in the US.
Every single cop that is standing there should be fired over this.

I'm not baffled at all, this is just how it is and has been for a while.

[-aiko-]

Having trouble breathing is a symptom of heart problems as well though.

Sure, but you can see how one side is clearly more believable than the other, no? I won't claim to know with 100% certainty what happened to this man but I will use the evidence I have in front of me to come to a logical conclusion...

And...what? Say I'm wrong, and he had a heart condition that decided to kick in during that very moment that he was being restrained. It's still on the police for not responding to his pleas for help. Their actions lead to his death.

[Endus]

Holy ...

Are those cops even human anymore? I am not so sure.
That arrest is text book China.

I am baffled that this is happening in the US.
Every single cop that is standing there should be fired over this.

Hot tip; there really isn't a whole of of difference between the USA and China, politically speaking. China has less influence and has caused less harm internationally, I guess. But they both have a long history of strong police suppression of dissent.

[Belize]

Yo accused the ME of bias first. I said you could makke the same accusations the other way. You still have not backed up your original claim. Since you accused first, you don't get dodge out of backing it up by accusing others of making up BS and throwing out random accusations. You did it first.

So again, What PROOF do you have that the ME is not trustworthy? Stop dodging.

You'll have to point out where I accused you of bias.
My original post was quoting @Crissi and you started going off on me first budster.

It's weird that your argument keeps changing as I poke holes through it.

But for the sake of discussion, I'll answer you (even though you won't return the favor back, prove me wrong lol):

We have a 9 minute video of a man being asphyxiated while complaining of not being able to breathe, which is medically known as asphyxiation. Go figure.

We then, in the same video, have the man lose consciousness, with blood leaking from his nose (normally a sign of pressure related trauma, like being asphyxiated)

We now have an independent ME that, against all odds, claim that the cause of death was asphyxiation. I have no doubt to believe otherwise, especially considering said ME has a prestigious and spotless record (Dr. Michael Baden if you're interested).

Now, child, tell me why Dr. Baden should not be trusted. You better come up with some damn good proof.

[stevenho]

Anyone knows when autopsy results are expected?
I have a hard time believing he suffocated due to pressure applied from behind/side.
Doesn't change the fact that the cop was retarded.

"No physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," says the official autopsy. "Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death."

So I guess the court will have to decide which autopsy is "correct"?
Or is there an autopsy authority deciding on which pathomorphologist was more right?

[Benggaul]

You didn't even read my post. I am talking abouthte credibility issues with that report. The family paid for it. Is it not possible that the family simply paid a to give them the finding they want? There is nothing independant about that report. For it truly to be independent it has to be one that comes from a true 3rd party, not the cops or the family.

"You didn't read my post in which I made the unsubstantiated claim that they probably paid the coroner to say whatever they wanted. You know, the one where I blamed the family of the victim..."