Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Ripster42]

Third, while it is expressed in various ways, the core principle is that a law enforcement officer is unable to perform their legal function if they are paralyzed by the fear of a lawsuit even when they are operating fully in good faith. This is a very, very broad mandate, and is something that is needed to function, else even turning your lights and siren on comes with the risk of a lawsuit. It is a necessary but very broad mandate, defined by its necessity rather than the writ of law, meaning that the supreme court cannot readily scrap the whole thing. It can only be further defined in such a way that the balance shifts from being overwhelmingly in favor of law enforcement, to balancing the interests of LEOs and the public.

I heartily disagree with the italicized. They can always do what doctors have had to do to practice medicine: get insurance. As far as I'm aware, doctors don't get qualified immunity unless they're acting in a law enforcement capacity (coroner) or in certain extraordinary circumstances.

Appreciate your insights as always.

[Grimbold21]

I guess that would depend on what country, city, area you live in. In the United States, that privilege can be wealth, skin color, age, physical attractiveness, gender, height, weight, or simply what family you belong to.

Now, some of those things you can change, but others you cannot.

To try and ignore that such things exist, is rather foolish.

I don't reckon folks in general ignore them

The underlying issue may lie with applying abstract conceptualizations into real world cases. Because this may be something that you deconstruct further and further.

[Machismo]

I don't reckon folks in general ignore them

The underlying issue may lie with applying abstract conceptualizations into real world cases. Because this may be something that you deconstruct further and further.

Except, people do ignore them, as we are plainly seeing.

[Kasierith]

I heartily disagree with the italicized. They can always do what doctors have had to do to practice medicine: get insurance. As far as I'm aware, doctors don't get qualified immunity unless they're acting in a law enforcement capacity (coroner) or in certain extraordinary circumstances.

Appreciate your insights as always.

In the case of physicians, malpractice has several conditions that protect them. The case is reviewed by a malpractice review board of sorts to ensure that there is entry level evidence to even start bringing a suit forward. It also requires expert testimony, which means you have to put money down and have a case reasonable enough to risk someone's reputation. These provide mitigating factors even before the actual court proceedings to assess actual, addressable damages, and before the insurance gets involved enough even to increase the rate (which they'll do even if the doctor wins the suit).

Then even if you get the lawsuit on the table, the legal bar is shifted for a malpractice lawsuit in that even if there were substantial harm done, as long as it can be found that the physician operated in a manner as any reasonable physician would have in their situation and were not negligent in their practice, they are in the clear. A much higher bar than 51 to 49 they probably caused damages.

In other words, there are additional barriers in place that allows a physician to operate their extremely high risk job with a reasonable expectation that as long as they do everything right they will not be financially and professionally at risk. While insurance for doctors is extravagant, they are far more likely to face disciplinary action from the medical board for general misconduct than legal action as long as they are attentive.

I would not be opposed to a similar system being set up for law enforcement officers. A series of barriers managed by third parties serving as a gating mechanism to protect officers who are operating in good faith, while allowing claims for those who are negligent or outright malicious to go through, all outside of the hands of the local department and union.

[Edge-]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rt/5335929002/

Louisville cops released their report on the night they murdered Breonna Taylor in her home while she was asleep.

Except, it is almost entirely blank.

The four-page report lists the time, date, case number, incident location and the victim's name — Breonna Shaquille Taylor — as well as the fact that she is a 26-year-old black female.

The report redacts Taylor's street number, apartment number and date of birth — all of which have been widely reported already.

And it lists as her injuries, "none," even though she was shot at least eight times and died on her hallway floor in a pool of blood, according to attorneys for her family.

It lists the charges as "death investigation — LMPD involved" but checks the "no" box under "forced entry," even though officers used a battering ram to knock in Taylor's apartment door.

But it's not their fault, apparently.

"Inaccuracies in the report are unacceptable to us, and we are taking immediate steps to correct the report and to ensure the accuracy of incident reports going forward," the statement said.

I don't think anyone fucking believes them right now.

[Kasierith]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rt/5335929002/

Louisville cops released their report on the night they murdered Breonna Taylor in her home while she was asleep.



But it's not their fault, apparently.



I don't think anyone fucking believes them right now.

Pretty sure they could have said "the dog ate the report sorry don't have it" and it would look better for them than.... this.

[tehealadin]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rt/5335929002/

Louisville cops released their report on the night they murdered Breonna Taylor in her home while she was asleep.



But it's not their fault, apparently.



I don't think anyone fucking believes them right now.

That reminds me of an old joke I once heard, cops in Mississippi pull a black man from the river. His hands were bound behind his back, his feet encased in concrete. He had 72 stab wounds and had been shot 3 times in the head, 6 times in the torso. Police said it was the worst case of suicide they had ever seen.

I know humour is often used as a way to bring things to light, to make people think about serious issues in a way that can be more concise and accessible, but sometimes it just....when it gets difficult to exaggerate for comedic effect, on a topic so serious, it is hard not to despair.

[Edge-]

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loca...88fa2d3ad.html

Tulsa cops apparently decided that jaywalking on an empty street (literally) is a crime enough to warrant detaining and physically arrested and assaulting black teenagers.

Petty misdemeanors that are casually ignored by officers or dealt with by a simple verbal warning.

[Edge-]

What is it with the smug asian pro trump grifter
you got andy ngo
and ian miles cheong

I mean i guess it makes sense when you consider historical alliances like japan and germany in ww2
the funny thing is miles lives in malaysia an actual theocratic ethno state, and all he does is criticize anti fascists and democrats, and gets americans to fully support his worldview, frightening

Ngo and Cheong are not Japanese names dude, not all Asian people are the same. Holy hell, don't do that.

[arandomuser]

Ngo and Cheong are not Japanese names dude, not all Asian people are the same. Holy hell, don't do that.

Sorry my comment was dumb and i deleted it, my point wasnt that they are literally japanese but pointed out how they could be asian and yet be so invested in a western ideological system such as white supremacy, now im not asian so my opinion is irrelevent or perhaps misinformed, sorry if i am wrong on that.

[Edge-]

Sorry my comment was dumb and i deleted it, my point wasnt that they are literally japanese but pointed out how they could be asian and yet be so invested in a western ideological system such as white supremacy, now im not asian so my opinion is irrelevent.

I hardly know enough about those two to speak to their personal motivations beyond something basic and human like "greed". Ngo seems to have found a profitable niche in the extreme-right and Cheong sways whichever direction he can get the most attention from.

Beyond that stupid and/or easily manipulated people transcend race, so I'm not sure why it'd even really be a factor.

- - - Updated - - -

https://abc7chicago.com/politics/us-...oters/6242919/

So while there was civil unrest in Chicago, Chicago's finest were...hanging out in the campaign office of Congressman Bobby Rush.

Takin a nap on a desk.

Takin a nap on a couch.

Checkin their phones.

Gazing out the window.

Making coffee with his grounds and machine.

Popping his popcorn and eating it.

While there was apparent looting and vandalism going on nearby.

This included over a dozen officers, including three supervisors.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-...ts-calm-2020-6

And to add to all this, while protests have largely been overwhelming peaceful over the past weeks, far more than the first weekend of vandalism and looting, you may not know that if you watch Fox News.

Why? Because they're still pearl clutching over how dangerous these protesters are by...using footage that at this point is weeks old because they can't find anything remotely recent.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9561926.html

Yet another reminder that there remains no evidence of any antifa presence at these protests. Federal arrests haven't picked any of them up yet, but they have picked up some of the "boogaloo" boys.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/us/lo...ban/index.html

Reforms continue. Louisville passed "Breonna's Law", banning no-knock warrants after she was murdered by police in her sleep following a no-knock warrant.

[Kokolums]

My bet right now is that Seattle collapses into massive violence within a week and Trump sends in the military. Then violence spreads across the country. At this point, I hope everyone stays safe because we are about to go thru hell IMO.

[Edge-]

My bet right now is that Seattle collapses into massive violence within a week and Trump sends in the military.

Based on?

A small area of the city being peacefully "controlled" by the people that live there? Without, as far as I've seen, any reports of violence or criminal behavior in the area thus far?

Then violence spreads across the country.

What's the spark? How would it spread? Where? Who would be acting first?

At this point, I hope everyone stays safe because we are about to go thru hell IMO.

Come off it. You're here low-key cheerleading for civil war still.

[Elegiac]

My bet right now is that Seattle collapses into massive violence within a week and Trump sends in the military. Then violence spreads across the country. At this point, I hope everyone stays safe because we are about to go thru hell IMO.

Lol you people haven't ever been to Washington let alone set foot in Capitol Hill. What even is this crap?

"Better watch out there's a turf war between the lesbian bookstore and the rastafarian hookah bar across the street." Pfffft.

[Themius]

If we needed even more reminders.

Literally doesn't know his name but says he has a warrant

Some good old planting drugs which people I think feel is a rare thing that rarely occurs:



120 CASES WERE EVENTUALLY DROPPED ONE HUNDRED AND FUCKING TWENTY

[Egomaniac]

I can't wait to see the responses to this that are basically :

"Well, the cop was obviously in the wrong" but then finishing with "but the guy should have been more respectful"

[TexasRules]

Pretty sure they could have said "the dog ate the report sorry don't have it" and it would look better for them than.... this.

It will never look good in any manner. What they did to her was more reprehensible then what happened to the real criminals they were "looking for" that they had already found. It's disgusting.

- - - Updated - - -

Ngo and Cheong are not Japanese names dude, not all Asian people are the same. Holy hell, don't do that.

It's the same thing to the alt right here. In all seriousness, he's just racist. Vilify him like you do the alt right here, don't let it go.

[Edge-]

120 CASES WERE EVENTUALLY DROPPED ONE HUNDRED AND FUCKING TWENTY

Jesus. The only appropriate consequence for his actions that I can see is for him to pay restitution to all 120 victims and serve the collective time that they could have potentially been imprisoned for if they were convicted.

Imagine, a single person has the "legal" power to ruin well over a hundred peoples lives for...I legitimately don't know for what. Because he's a genuinely vile, and evil human being? I have nothing else, I don't know why else he'd fuckin do it.

- - - Updated - - -

Vilify him like you do the alt right here, don't let it go.

I'm not gonna feed some kind of persecution complex, bro. He made a mistake and a dumb post, owned it, and moved on. You'd do well to learn what accepting responsibility for mistakes looks like. We all make them, it's what you do after that matters.

[Zython]

Third, while it is expressed in various ways, the core principle is that a law enforcement officer is unable to perform their legal function if they are paralyzed by the fear of a lawsuit even when they are operating fully in good faith. This is a very, very broad mandate, and is something that is needed to function, else even turning your lights and siren on comes with the risk of a lawsuit. It is a necessary but very broad mandate, defined by its necessity rather than the writ of law, meaning that the supreme court cannot readily scrap the whole thing. It can only be further defined in such a way that the balance shifts from being overwhelmingly in favor of law enforcement, to balancing the interests of LEOs and the public.

The solution for this is malpractice insurance.

[Yadryonych]

This thread is closed. Besides the socio-"political" spin suggesting it belongs in the mega-thread, the professor and university's actions also don't belong in politics. Please post within the existing threads if there is topic overlap.

This exact discussion is already occurring/occurred in the mega-thread. Continue discussion there.

Similar to the other thread closing, topics relating to the riots and Floyd can go to the mega-thread.

I'm not questioning admins here, but you are sending people to some 'mega-thread' and this is still just a regular thread "Another "I can't breath" death by police in USA" and literally not a "Mega-thread: American unrest", that's what might be getting people confused