Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Lorgar Aurelian]

My point is the martyrdom of such a person. I sure as hell wouldn't want to have such a person represent a cause.

That’s because you don’t even understand what the cause is.

[Levelfive]

@Levelfive personally I suggest you stop scratching your head and trying desperately to find words I put down to twist to what you want, and call out the actual racists and apologists in the thread

It took 2 seconds of looking at your post history.

[The Scourge of Azuremyst]

When even a Russian is looking at what you're doing and saying "ya, you're going way overboard" that should probably be a sign that someone is going wrong.

Coming from the one living in a country that purged millions of innocent people during the 30s.

[Gaidax]

There are countless examples of people doing what police said and still being brutalized you goomba.

You can throw around that generalist bullshit all you like, but can you actually provide statistic to back that up?

As I said - if actual force was used while you complied - take that both to the judge and the authorities with a proper complaint - there are plenty mechanics in place to track and correct that misbehavior from the police force side.

[Edge-]

You should comply with officers, period.

Provided the officer is issuing lawful orders.

If you are walking on the street and a cop asks for your ID, you are under no obligation to provide it to them unless they have cause for suspicion. If they cannot provide such cause, you have every right to peacefully tell them to go kick rocks, turn around, and walk the fuck away. Or fuck, sprint away.

And none of that is justification for the officer to do anything more than look at the ground, sad and dejected. This odd love affair with sacrificing all our rights to law enforcement is bizarre.

as if officer's order is some sort of optional please open for discussion.

Often times, it is. Being asked for ID during a traffic stop is legal. Being told that the officer is searching your vehicle, without your consent and without probable cause to believe there is something illegal in there, is very much open for discussion as that would not be a lawful search.

You don't maybe comply and you don't start being a troll or smartass about the whole thing in front of a person. You simply comply, the end.

Nobody's arguing that we should be the sovereign citizen assholes. But individuals have rights, and law enforcement do now have blanket authority to do whatever they want.

Then you won't have any "police brutality", because unless said officer is some psycho - he won't have a reason to even use any sort of force on you if you comply.

Except we've seen officers assault or kill people who were actively complying at the time.

And what you're arguing is for a literal police state, where citizens have no rights and must blindly submit to the authority of law enforcement. That's tyranny. Don't be a tyrant-cuck, in the lingo of the kids on the internet.

If he does, you have a way to get back at that after the fact.

In the current system? Rarely. Police enjoy broad protection from criminal and civil consequences for their actions, and depending on the police department and their unions agreement with the city/state, those protections can be near impossible to bypass.

[Raetary]

I totally forgot that complying to police officer orders is not in fashion in 2k20.

You might have not noticed, but US cops kind of have this tendency to kill you regardless of whether you comply or not.

[Belize]

So you are denying that he was a slave owner?

No.

I'm saying it's entire irrelevant, and a bad faith argument. Especially considering that his Will emancipated all the slaves on his plantation, and that he wrote extensively about his moral qualms with it.

[Kasierith]

I didn't look for more than 2:


Yes, I know you'll paper over it by claiming you went on to stipulate that the officers are ultimately responsible, after saying it was the fault of a highly controversial underlying medical condition, drugs in his system, etc., but those are precisely the deflections at issue. If your response to: Finish this sentence, "Cops murdered George Floyd," is but* rather than period, you are engaged in propping up a system that excuses murdering black people. If you're uncomfortable with that, you should be.

Think you may need to have your eyes checked there, mate. I said the knee wasn't directly responsible, but the officer was.

Oh, and I've also said that the cops murdered George Floyd. We're circling back to an extremely selective reading pattern.

How about you go after the actual apologists rather than continuing this fit?

[Daedius]

That’s because you don’t even understand what the cause is.

When they just add another black death, regardless of reasons or how violent the person was, to their 'cause' yeah I guess I don't...

[Kasierith]

It took 2 seconds of looking at your post history.

And yet still no quote that I said what you believe I said.

[Gaidax]

Doesn't work out so well for the guy in Vallejo who was kneeling with his hands raised when the cops shot him five times without even bothering to get out of their car. Complying didn't do him any good, and I doubt he will find a way to "get back" from the grave.

Don't be an extremist. We all know that this one situation was fucked up and the guy will be held accountable - he did not escape from that for even one moment.

This does not mean that your typical encounter with Police will end like that, for all the bullshit going on here - cases where legitimately complying person got a zapper in his ass or a knee to his neck are extremely few and officers who did this got in a load of trouble.

[Belize]

- there are plenty mechanics in place to track and correct that misbehavior from the police force side.

Except there aren't, as has been made evidently clear by this thread and the dozens that came before it.

Maybe if you took the time to educate yourself on the matter, you wouldn't be here typing out absolute falsehoods.

[Benggaul]

Yes they do have the right to shoot someone on the spot for doing shit like that, and it would be justified. One can't expect a Russian like you to understand that though, you guys never gave a shit about human rights.

Wrong. The police are authorized to use deadly force only when the subject(s) pose a significant threat to themselves or others. If, in this scenario, the weapon was thrown away and they are surrendering they are no longer a significant threat and "shooting them on the spot" would be unlawful. This isn't Judge fucking Dredd. There is due process and cops are not judge, jury and executioner.

[Kasierith]

Coming from the one living in a country that purged millions of innocent people during the 30s.

I wasn't alive in the 30s, but even if that were that case it would make it worse, not better that your country is getting called out for going overboard.

[Thekri]

Why do you glorify George Washington then? He was a slave owner too.

Ah, the low energy deflection as per usual.

The answer is obvious, nobody defends George Washington for holding slaves. Treating human beings as property is bad, that is not a hard concept. You can credit the man for his good actions while condemning his evil ones, the strawman that people must be viewed in absolute terms is the root of the issue to begin with.

It it stems from the exact same absolutist approach to human value that is currently being debated that if a man commits a crime, he forfeits his right to life and dignity. Obviously that isn't true, in either a legal or moral sense. Crimes are to be addressed in proportion to the crime, and everyone should face simular consequences for similar crimes. Because this crazy idea that "Criminal" is a separate species of human, and one that has no rights or value, is inherently offensive and immoral. It shares a common origin with those who said the same thing about a subgroup of humanity labeled "Slaves", who also had no rights or dignity.

An adult, nuanced perspective allows us to acknowledge that a black man that passes a counterfeit $20 bill should be arrested by the police and charged in accordance with his crime, and should be afforded the proper legal channels to prove his innocence. Apparently conservatives are huge fans of this for Flynn, but not for Floyd. But George Floyd doesn't have that option because he is dead. He is dead because a police officer knelt on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds, and it turns out that kills people. And here is the point where race becomes important. Do you honestly think that I, as a conservatively dressed white man, would be thrown to the ground and murdered if I was accused of passing a counterfeit bill? What do you think the likelyhood of that happening is? That is what changes this from an isolated murder to a national problem.

[Levelfive]

Think you may need to have your eyes checked there, mate. I said the knee wasn't directly responsible, but the officer was.

Oh, and I've also said that the cops murdered George Floyd. We're circling back to an extremely selective reading pattern.

How about you go after the actual apologists rather than continuing this fit?

How about you stop equivocating about what "really" killed him? It's legitimately disgusting.

[Gaidax]

Except there aren't, as has been made evidently clear by this thread and the dozens that came before it.

Maybe if you took the time to educate yourself on the matter, you wouldn't be here typing out absolute falsehoods.

No there wasn't because this whole thread is a giant circle-jerk echo chamber of "fuck the police", where people jump out of their skin to spread half-truths, hearsay and outright bull.

You genuinely have the process where you can fill the complaint and push it forward until justice is done, you can do this just fine after the event given you actually have a credible claim there.

[Levelfive]

And yet still no quote that I said what you believe I said.

And now you've just resorted to lying.

[Inuyaki]

You genuinely have the process where you can fill the complaint and push it forward until justice is done, you can do this just fine after the event given you actually have a credible claim there.

So how come that the murderer had multiple complains before and nothing was ever done?

Heck, there was one cop that attacked a civilian a few days ago, where people found out that he had nearly 100 complains in 4 years, and nobody did something.
The system is broken!

You just have no clue...

[Belize]

No there wasn't because this whole thread is a giant circle-jerk echo chamber of "fuck the police",

Oh look, more generalization and strawmen.

I'm sorry that reality doesn't fit your narrative and that you need to invent one.