Got booted. Am I the bad guy?

[Volatilis]

I can guarantee

Um no you cant.

So calm your little pointless hate rant down.

No one is entitled to take loot from someone then kick them from raid like a child throwing out its toys. THAT is toxic.

Good day sir.

[arkanon]

I can guarantee he didn't tell the raid leader that he was just trying to junk gear for residuum before joining the raid because he knows for a fact he wouldn't have gotten an invite.

The two advertisements for someone who just makes shit up - you cannot guarantee, and you dont know for a fact. Painful stuff to read. Painful.

[TheRevenantHero]

Um no you cant.

So calm your little pointless hate rant down.

No one is entitled to take loot from someone then kick them from raid like a child throwing out its toys. THAT is toxic.

Good day sir.

Yes I absolutely can. Because I've seen it happen, I've done it myself, and I've spoken to other raid leaders that do it. People who join a raid group just to disenchant or turn shit into residuum are leeches that nobody wants in their raid. The raid leader wasn't toxic for kicking someone who is basically telling someone to go fuck themselves because they don't care about their upgrade. I absolutely would have done the same thing because I hate leeches.

[Shango]

I can guarantee he didn't tell the raid leader that he was just trying to junk gear for residuum before joining the raid because he knows for a fact he wouldn't have gotten an invite. Also, I haven't seen exactly what helmet it was so I don't see how you could know it was trash. If I missed the post, then enlighten me. Otherwise, it makes me think the OP was lying to make himself look better.

You can pitch any way you want. As I said, this is why WoW has become so utterly toxic. Everyone is selfish as hell.

I can confirm that i did in fact not inform the raid leader why i joined the raid, i have never done that before. The reason i did not inform him however was not because i was afraid that i would not be invited, it was because i would have never even thought of it being a problem in the first place.

Im also fairly conviced that if i do like some sort of social experiment and just whisper every single fresh id raid leader in the tool right now, that i intend to join their raid, that however i was going to keep a single piece of azerite to myself for its scrap value (if i got lucky enough for a drop) that i would be invited to almost every single group if not all of them.

[TheRevenantHero]

I can confirm that i did in fact not inform the raid leader why i joined the raid, i have never done that before. The reason i did not inform him however was not because i was afraid that i would not be invited, it was because i would have never even thought of it being a problem in the first place.

Im also fairly conviced that if i do like some sort of social experiment and just whisper every single fresh id raid leader in the tool right now, that i intend to join their raid, that however i was going to keep a single piece of azerite to myself for its scrap value (if i got lucky enough for a drop) that i would be invited to almost every single group if not all of them.

I don't believe you even a little bit. On both you getting invited to raids if you say any loot you get is getting scrapped because fuck everyone else and that you didn't think telling the raid leader would deny you entry.

[qwerty123456]

Again, you are totally getting this horribly wrong. You are making the claim that ANY action that benefits a person in any way is selfish - this goes completely against the definition. I can take someones pov into account, consider it, and still decide to act in a way that benefits me - THIS IS NOT SELFISH. You are having a painfully difficult time understanding a very, VERY simple concept - to meet the definition of selfish, op would need to have NOT taken the other players into consideration when making their decision, and the evidence we have shows that is NOT the case.

Taking something into consideration does not mean that you will always lean in their favor - it means you will consider it. OP considered it, and decided to keep the item.

- - - Updated - - -



Link it all you want, it does not mean what you think it means. They key word here is CONSIDERATION. No where in the definition does it claim that by acting in a manor that benefits you, you are selfish. It says a lack of consideration.

Some people are trying to claim that any action taken that benefits you, but could have benefited someone else, is selfish - that is NOT what the definition says.

For example: I am at the bus stop - a homeless person approaches, and asks for $5. I have $5 for the bus, and make the conscious decision to keep the $5 for the bus instead of giving it to the homeless person. Based on the information i have at the time, i am unsure how much this person will really benefit from the $5, and if i give it to them i will have a 3 hour walk home.

Some are making the argument this is selfish - that is entirely untrue.

Do you see that bolded part? The dictionary definition is more than just the second half. It's being chiefly concerned with ones own personal profit while ALSO lacking consideration for others.


The problem here is that you're arguing from the perspective than anything that isn't completely, 100%, purely selfless is selfish. Which, while technically true by the barest thread of truth, isn't practically relevant to the thread. Because if that's what you're standing on, then literally anything a human being ever does is selfish. Oh..what's that? You're breathing? Stop taking up that air that other people could be using. Do you see how ridiculous that technicality is?

Again: The lack of extreme altruism is not the same as selfishness in any practical application.

And do you know what consideration means? Careful thought. Now if you actually think carefully is your basically enchanting shard worth more to you than that helmet upgrade is to the other person? No of course not especially when you have the skill/items to be above that level and they can't even get a full guild group.
This is what you guys seem to be unable to understand. If the situation was that the hunter was asking for the helmet to shard it and the op was getting a full item upgrade it wouldn't be selfish to keep it as when you consider everything your need is greater than the hunters.

[callipygoustp]

Are there people that inform pug raid leaders their loot intentions when joining a run? In all my time playing, never done that. Never even thought of doing that.

[Volatilis]

Yes I absolutely can. Because I've seen it happen, I've done it myself, and I've spoken to other raid leaders that do it. People who join a raid group just to disenchant or turn shit into residuum are leeches that nobody wants in their raid. The raid leader wasn't toxic for kicking someone who is basically telling someone to go fuck themselves because they don't care about their upgrade. I absolutely would have done the same thing because I hate leeches.

That is the weirdest logic. You shouldnt have to say "btw im gonna keep my loot drops" because its assumed you would anyway.

People expecting hand me downs is the one that needs to re consider their logic.

[Darththeo]

A different statement that includes the word "chiefly" which again, has been shown to have NOT been met in this scenario. And you did not outline the strawman. Please, present it for all to see.

"It states "lacking consideration" ... you acting like that means "no" or "low" consideration ... when it doesn't. "

lacking
/ˈlakɪŋ/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: lacking

not available or in short supply.



...OUCH.

Congratulations, you continue to prove you don't know how to use a dictionary.

Why don't you post the full definition of lacking?

Which includes:
- (of a quality) missing or absent.
- deficient or inadequate.

I wonder why you left out the last two ... deficient or inadequate.

And no, it has been met in this scenario, you just declared it not to be. He was chiefly concerned with getting an upgrade for himself, I am sorry you can't understand this.

[arkanon]

Congratulations, you continue to prove you don't know how to use a dictionary.

Why don't you post the full definition of lacking?

Which includes:
- (of a quality) missing or absent.
- deficient or inadequate.

I wonder why you left out the last two ... deficient or inadequate.

And no, it has been met in this scenario, you just declared it not to be. He was chiefly concerned with getting an upgrade for himself, I am sorry you can't understand this.

Hook, line, and sinker. Now all you need to do, is PROVE THAT THE CONSIDERATION WAS DEFICIENT OR INADEQUATE. This is too easy.

[Ansoof]

You did nothing wrong, yes it's nice to roll out loot you don't need but I've been in a similar position and you're just as entitled to scrap your loot for residuum, I wouldn't loot any azerite so that it just gets mailed to me instead though.

[Darththeo]

Hook, line, and sinker. Now all you need to do, is PROVE THAT THE CONSIDERATION WAS DEFICIENT OR INADEQUATE. This is too easy.

Except, I don't.

He didn't trade the gear because he was chiefly concerned getting an upgrade for himself and not helping others. He clearly joined the raid for that purpose, not to help other gear therefor the fact he traded another piece of gear cannot be used as evidence he was anything else. He meets the second part of the definition of selfish.

BUT HE CONSIDERED IT!?! Irrelevant, he meets one part of the definition therefor he meets it.

Please if you are going to continue this argument, please actually read the whole post.

[TheRevenantHero]

Except, I don't.

He didn't trade the gear because he was chiefly concerned getting an upgrade for himself and not helping others. He clearly joined the raid for that purpose, not to help other gear therefor the fact he traded another piece of gear cannot be used as evidence he was anything else. He meets the second part of the definition of selfish.

BUT HE CONSIDERED IT!?! Irrelevant, he meets one part of the definition therefor he meets it.

Please if you are going to continue this argument, please actually read the whole post.

Another thing people are ignoring is that he DIDN'T consider it. He just flat out said no then he got kicked for it. There was absolutely no consideration on his behalf. And people like him don't announce that they plan on mulching gear because that pisses people off.

[Jinpachi]

Salute o7

So to start things off im still fairly convinced that I am in fact not the bad guy, but considering 12 people just told me i am a dick and only 1 guy was on my side I feel like sharing my story, or ranting, you name it.

After missing my guilds hc raid this week and sitting at ~4600 titan residium i decided to join a hc nyalotha raid to try grab any azerite piece for its scrap value. (my char is currently sitting at ilvl 475 so i dont need anything else in there) Vexiona dropped her headpiece and immideatly afterwards i got whispered by a hunter if i was so kind to trade it to him, considering i allready have Carapace Loot and would most likely not need it.

I declined and got called out in raid chat for being a selfish dick. At that point i was like i was like "eh, is that guy serious?" but people were kinda quick to side with him. Arguments were being made for me to just wait for next reset because i was sure to receive enough residium to just be guaranteed to buy a piece of gear that only had a chance to be an upgrade while our groups hunter was guaranteed an upgrade (if i traded him).

I pretty much did not react in chat, only thing i typed was that the sole reason i joined the raid in the first place was for a few shots at 200 residium so i could try get an upgrade at the azerite vendor. (i failed at that btw, not that it would matter)

Either way, raid leader (being premade with the hunter) told me to either give the headpiece to his hunter friend or be kicked. Told him that i still dont see a reason to to do so and got shafted. After being kicked one pala heal whispered me saying he would not even have a problem if i decided to keep the item for transmog purposes.

What are your thoughts? The group i joined were mostly randoms (4 guys from one guild) and still seemed to agree that i was being selfish.

Edit: a few things that people keep asking

1st: I did not know any of these people nor did i get informed about any loot rules or special purpose of the raid (like trying to catch up people that a behind on gear)

2nd: the exact echange between the hunter and me was the following:

https://imgur.com/IAZAcqQ

3rd: I did not initially pick this one up because frankly i did not matter to me, the hunter did fine for his gear, though he was the weakest DPS, and yes, he would have profited from the upgrade. DPS numbers (there was another hunter above me at 113k dps, i am #2 the hunter this post is about is #10) were:

https://imgur.com/d0VCUU4

You're under no obligation to help anyone else out in a PUG. Fuck em if they can't take a joke. No, you're not the bad guy here. They're the selfish pricks who think they should get to tell you what you should do with your randomly awarded pixels.

[Yoshimiko]

Never loot, always let the mailman bring it to you. This is *exactly* why.

You were 100% in the right.

[Monster Hunter]

The exact exchange was the following (can still deliver a screenshot if needed)

Hunter: need head mate ?
Me: i do, sry
Hunter: you have 475
Hunter: how the fuck you need a 460 head ?
Me: i need it to buy an azerite piece which is exactly the reason i joined this raid i nthe first place
Hunter: so you needed 200 fucking residuum
Hunter: lol
Hunter: ok

Edit: Apparently i cant add a screenshot/link or at least i dont know how to

your mistake was replying, just blank them.

EOD its your loot so it up to you what you do with it. ive sharded things in front of people who get pissy about it just to make a point.

[Jinpachi]

Your loot, your choice, fuck everyone who thinks otherwise

I second this response. HEAVILY.

[Volatilis]

Another thing people are ignoring is that he DIDN'T consider it. He just flat out said no then he got kicked for it. There was absolutely no consideration on his behalf. And people like him don't announce that they plan on mulching gear because that pisses people off.

So you think its ok for someone to make a raid, invite their scrub geared friend then hound players into giving you loot for your badly geared friend that doesnt want to put any effort into gearing himself from WoWs dozen of sources for free loot. He should be able to harass players who are maybe there for other reasons than gearing the scrub lord and giving them loot and if they dont they get kicked from raid out of spite.

AWESOME LOGIC BROOOOOOO

[Darththeo]

So you think its ok for someone to make a raid, invite their scrub geared friend then hound players into giving you loot for your badly geared friend that doesnt want to put any effort into gearing himself from WoWs dozen of sources for free loot. He should be able to harass players into giving them loot instead and if they dont they get kicked from raid out of spite.

AWESOME LOGIC BROOOOOOO

Well, that's isn't what they are saying. People are not arguing what should be done. In fact, I think everyone agrees OP was 100% in the right for his actions. We are arguing on whether or not the action was selfish.

[Jinpachi]

You are really good at projecting. It fits the definition of selfish, thus is selfish. YOU are justifying the action on why it wasn't wrong and conflating that with whether or not it was selfish. It is YOU trying to fit a narrative, not I.

You are ignoring the evidence to make your argument. The definition is on my side, not yours. The events support ... he joined to get a piece to attempt for a upgrade, no matter how hard you twist that his reason for joining and keeping that piece was selfish. Just because you can't understand how definitions work doesn't mean I am wrong.

Ok, let's assume you're correct. So fucking what? At the end of the day, it's OP's loot, and nobody else's. Claiming a greater need for something that didn't drop for them is more selfish. Fight me.