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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    I'm just annoyed that Rogues have the biggest "UNDER CONSTRUCTION" sign on the BETA (not even Alpha anymore). Our Legendaries and Conduits are still missing, we have missing talents, Shiv, a baseline ability, is still on the PvP talents ffs. We've got under 4 months before SL goes live, let alone 9.0, and soon it'll be way too late for them to bother adjusting anything. It's a mockery is what it is.
    this happened in bfa and legion so its nothing new. we are gunna missing talents a week before prepatch and they are going to be super under or super over tuned. the first major rogue update won't be till the first week of the raid but by that point most of the rogue players will have stoped playing the class

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gref View Post
    I am seriously thinking about going for a rog as main but I have outlaws random play. but only outlaw has gouge...
    I feel %50 rog when I play assassin in dungeons. gouge should be baseline ability ffs. (made myself a rogue and got to 600io for now)

    also what covenant? pls help me! I have been playing a warrior for 16 years now. I want a change!
    really its hard to say which one will be best for outlaw, the angles will prob be the best pick for most specs if hitting the charged combo point isn't a problem, a 7 combo point finisher will he strong.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Radazar View Post
    this happened in bfa and legion so its nothing new. we are gunna missing talents a week before prepatch and they are going to be super under or super over tuned. the first major rogue update won't be till the first week of the raid but by that point most of the rogue players will have stoped playing the class

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    really its hard to say which one will be best for outlaw, the angles will prob be the best pick for most specs if hitting the charged combo point isn't a problem, a 7 combo point finisher will he strong.
    I wouldn't even mind that some of our talents are implemented with such delay if they were even the least bit interesting. But they're usually not. Just look at the last talent row - it got some half-hearted iteration in BfA. All we've got is Secret Technique and Shuriken Storm - both pretty lame abilities.

    Kyrian is gonna be akward for Sub on account of the random combo points generated by our auto attacks. On top of that, it doesn't mesh with out burst.
    Last edited by Lodravel; 2020-07-27 at 07:05 AM.

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    I think there's no need to look further than the level 30 talent row for Outlaw to see they haven't thought too much about the class as a whole as of now, they literally replaced a god tier talent with what seems to be one so situational and specific it can be considered dead on arrival. Hell, the level 15 talent row hasn't changed a single bit, given that it has two dead talents since Legion.

    And given that some people genuinely thought and expressed that replacing Riposte with Evasion was a nerf... There's our feedback right there.
    Default dancing over the Obelisk of the Kairos's ruins.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Radazar View Post
    this happened in bfa and legion so its nothing new. we are gunna missing talents a week before prepatch and they are going to be super under or super over tuned. the first major rogue update won't be till the first week of the raid but by that point most of the rogue players will have stoped playing the class
    I wasn't a Rogue until just before 8.1 (leveled one for MZul prog and then main-swapped to it for BoD) so I wasn't fully aware. But yeah, this is obnoxious. 9.0's going live in under 3 months at the latest (unless they delay SL) and we still have a ton of big things missing.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  5. #25
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    Visit this page and tell me what you think about their feed-back:

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nges/490696/45

    As you can see on the OFFICIAL page of the alpha / beta we only have fully rogues conforming to the biggest problems of the rogue (mainly subtlety) and leading to devs problems that are not problems. There is rogue there even asking for some nerf saying that the skill is very OP. Jesus...
    So ... I believe this is why we still have no news on improvements to the rogue ...! The feed back practically does not exist. At least not on the OFFICIAL page of the game ...
    Ye dunno, I met with this opinion about sub instead:

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  6. #26
    This same shit happens every expansion. I keep hoping against hope every time they'll give rogue a LITTLE attention and iteration while in development and I end up disappointed every single time. Gonna finally take the hint and roll a different class to play as main.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ye dunno, I met with this opinion about sub instead:
    I watched that video aswell. If i got it right (correct me if i'm saying wrong) the general feeling with specs is just good. Not shit, not awesome, but good. Which is actually more that we're used to (we usually have one spec that works, and the other two dealing with issues).

    We still need to see what our legendaries are, the talents (IIRC there's still something not yet implemented), the counduit system in detail and most important, a total balance pass.

    So, right now, we don't have enough information other than "the spec feels decent to play". Which isn't good but it's not terrible either. Still, not optimistic about it.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    I wouldn't even mind that some of our talents are implemented with such delay if they were even the least bit interesting. But they're usually not. Just look at the last talent row - it got some half-hearted iteration in BfA. All we've got is Secret Technique and Shuriken Storm - both pretty lame abilities.

    Kyrian is gonna be akward for Sub on account of the random combo points generated by our auto attacks. On top of that, it doesn't mesh with out burst.
    i like secret technique, and now with symbols of death giving you 100% crit for your next attack will make secrets nice for burst (even if it would be better to use it for shuriken storm to apply AoE find weakness)

    the Kyrian to me just dont fit rogues theme wise, like the ability just the armor, mount and pet to me dont scream rogue imo

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    Kyrian is gonna be akward for Sub on account of the random combo points generated by our auto attacks. On top of that, it doesn't mesh with out burst.
    Actually, Sub is the "easiest" since you can "pool" combo in some way. Still, it's clunky to use especially if you're getting 2 or 1 as the empowered combo. Outlaw/Assa are going to be even worse. Sidenote: this skill also goes against Deeper Stratagem, as you get less of an advantage since you can techincally deal 6-combo finishers.

    I'm more and more dead set on Venthyr, both for looks and a skill that's actually just usable and working in any situation. Especially since you're not gonna be able to change it on a fight or content basis anyway.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Actually, Sub is the "easiest" since you can "pool" combo in some way. Still, it's clunky to use especially if you're getting 2 or 1 as the empowered combo. Outlaw/Assa are going to be even worse. Sidenote: this skill also goes against Deeper Stratagem, as you get less of an advantage since you can techincally deal 6-combo finishers.

    I'm more and more dead set on Venthyr, both for looks and a skill that's actually just usable and working in any situation. Especially since you're not gonna be able to change it on a fight or content basis anyway.
    Yeah, easy, but hella akward. Waiting on your random combo point to proc, that's gonna throw a wrench into our rotation. Playing with that while not trying to cap energy might actually be kinda neat (in PvE and in theory) but the whole SoD and SD dynamic very obviously doesn't fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Radazar View Post
    i like secret technique, and now with symbols of death giving you 100% crit for your next attack will make secrets nice for burst (even if it would be better to use it for shuriken storm to apply AoE find weakness)

    the Kyrian to me just dont fit rogues theme wise, like the ability just the armor, mount and pet to me dont scream rogue imo
    ST buffs only your next builder, AFAIK.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Radazar View Post
    i like secret technique, and now with symbols of death giving you 100% crit for your next attack will make secrets nice for burst
    Maybe I'm wrong but Symbols will only guarantee 100% crit on your next combos generator ...! Not in finishers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post

    We still need to see what our legendaries are, the talents (IIRC there's still something not yet implemented), the counduit system in detail and most important, a total balance pass.

    So, right now, we don't have enough information other than "the spec feels decent to play". Which isn't good but it's not terrible either. Still, not optimistic about it.
    As a wowhead user wisely said ... "Rogue is the only playable class in the beta that is still in the alpha ..."

  12. #32
    sorry i meant use Symbols for shuriken storm to apply find weakness in aoe which will make secrets hit harder, i worded it wrong.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    Yeah, easy, but hella akward. Waiting on your random combo point to proc, that's gonna throw a wrench into our rotation. Playing with that while not trying to cap energy might actually be kinda neat (in PvE and in theory) but the whole SoD and SD dynamic very obviously doesn't fit.
    Yeah, reason why i'm just gonna avoid it until it's reworked.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Yeah, reason why i'm just gonna avoid it until it's reworked.
    The base concept as an ability that dictates much of our gameplay isn't even that bad; I'd appreciate a more engaging rotation as long as it doesn't feel too clunky.

    There's a lot about the Kyrians that I find appealing, the aesthetic, their values (as long as we don't see too much lawful stupid in the lore, as writers are wont to do), especially the duality of being a kyrian rogue... dirty means to noble aspirations.

    But a lot of it needs a lot of work. The main ability is quite underwhelming, though I reckon it will receive changes down the road, and the soulbinds are ranging from useless to unexciting.

    Aside from the one soulbind trait that adds a knockback to the vial. Delicious. So many little plays this allows for.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    The base concept as an ability that dictates much of our gameplay isn't even that bad; I'd appreciate a more engaging rotation as long as it doesn't feel too clunky.

    There's a lot about the Kyrians that I find appealing, the aesthetic, their values (as long as we don't see too much lawful stupid in the lore, as writers are wont to do), especially the duality of being a kyrian rogue... dirty means to noble aspirations.

    But a lot of it needs a lot of work. The main ability is quite underwhelming, though I reckon it will receive changes down the road, and the soulbinds are ranging from useless to unexciting.

    Aside from the one soulbind trait that adds a knockback to the vial. Delicious. So many little plays this allows for.
    I am in the same place with Venthyr. They fit Subtlety concept and skillset, i like their ability despite being boring, and the Duelist Soulbind is extremely awesome for me. If they reworked the skill to be something more involving, then it would be perfect.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  16. #36
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    I think it's time to push the feedback of RtB always giving two buffs now that it's a CD.

    I mean, I would prefer for something else to be done (the deletion of that crap for example) but they seem autistically focused on having Outlaw rogues throwing dices, so, the least minimum would be for it to always give two buffs, like, ALWAYS, not after adrenaline rush...
    Default dancing over the Obelisk of the Kairos's ruins.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    All I can tell is I still see no sign of outlaw getting a second dps cooldown because seriously, Legion outlaw > BFA barebones "where the hell are my abilities?" outlaw. Most of what I see in covenants involve utility and mobility, which is all I have left.

    Back to the monk again I guess.
    Why do you need a second dps cooldown when you are already one of the two top melee specs in the beta?

    That said, design wise I agree with you. They should just turn RTB into a proper cooldown that just gives you two good buffs every time. But outlaw is gonna need a numbers nerf bat after that, so if you're cool with that, sure.

  18. #38
    Obviously the class will be fine long term as it's infrastructurally solid as always, but being the last to get attention and having your changes be barely tested first draft stuff every single expansion is kind of a bummer.

  19. #39
    a)they should merge slice and dice with rtb , then make rtb roll always 2 , 3 or 4 buffs and balance around that.the way it is right now in beta makes no sense, having to maintain two buffs is totally wrong .mastery for outlaw should affect rtb. it feels as if they said " we failed and now we take it back" rerolling many times in a row when you get one buff is the most annoying thing they ever came with .

    b)make the main gauche mastery simple a passive. your auto attacks have a chance to strike two times and regen energy.

    c)make killing spree baseline but make it work like blade dance does for demon hunters without the dodge part.

    d)shiv and poisons make no sense at all for outlaw. besides pvp shiv is no way usefull for outlaw.they should fill it with rupture rather than poisons to give the spec a needed dot.

    as for talents.

    ghostly strike , either make it baseline or remove it , none ever picks that for pve.
    acrobatic strikes , none in his right mind would pick anything else , make it baseline .plain and simple.
    the same goes for marked for death , the way it is now either make it baseline or remove it.
    besides pvp none would pick it.
    Last edited by niztheundead87; 2020-08-16 at 10:10 PM.

  20. #40
    High Overlord Bearded Sith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    Visit this page and tell me what you think about their feed-back:

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nges/490696/45

    As you can see on the OFFICIAL page of the alpha / beta we only have fully rogues conforming to the biggest problems of the rogue (mainly subtlety) and leading to devs problems that are not problems. There is rogue there even asking for some nerf saying that the skill is very OP. Jesus...
    So ... I believe this is why we still have no news on improvements to the rogue ...! The feed back practically does not exist. At least not on the OFFICIAL page of the game ...
    You not enjoying something does not speak to the communities opinions. There are things all over this game that players love and I just can't stand. That doesn't mean they're broken, OP, UP, or whatever other adjective you can think up. It just means YOU don't like it.

    On topic of being an OP ability - Alpha/Beta are meant to weed these issues out. You don't want something OP coming live, because it'll get nerfed into the ground as a reactionary solution post-release.

    Finally, I rarely post here or on the Blizzard forums. There's a really neat in-game feature in Alpha/Beta that allows you to comment or report bugs. That's where ALL my feedback goes. This way it makes it to the Developers quicker and without effort on the community managers' part. Overall, you seem to be more "the sky is falling" than attempting to encourage conversation.

    A simple piece of advice - relax and enjoy the game. Don't stress so much over numbers. Especially right now when the numbers are tuned. If you're not in the beta, start reading up on the different covenants and options you'll have upon hitting 60. Enjoy the ride and don't stress, brother.

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