SPOILERS: Shadowlands Lore Thread

[Hellspawn]

There is no reason there wouldn't be a shaman or element-oriented afterlife, there just isn't a playable one. So far there is only one recognizable orc spirit in Shadowlands and that's Draka in Maldraxxus, and while several Tauren are in Bastion that is based on their veneration for duty and spirits.

I haven't seen a single orc spirit or ghost otherwise in the footage over than some in the Maw.

I also don't think there are many Pandaren running around and they have several interesting dogmas about the afterlife.

Why would the elementals have an special afterlife? Orcs are not even descendants of them but they are like humans, titan constructs.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

It seems like we'll be seeing Primus sooner or later since a few of his NPC items are datamined.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317149/...mor-and-primus

[Nagawithlegs]

Why would the elementals have an special afterlife? Orcs are not even descendants of them but they are like humans, titan constructs.

Probably not the elements themselves but a place for shamans or people close to the elements. Draenor was very shamanistic and considering how few Orcs are in Shadowlands (I've yet to see more than one that has a name) I think there must be a place that they go.

It seems like we'll be seeing Primus sooner or later since a few of his NPC items are datamined.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317149/...mor-and-primus

If the theory is correct that the Primus is the Runeforger, who is confirmed to have some kind of amnesia then it would make sense that they would just be plopped onto his model in replace of his imprisonment armor.

[Aucald]

It seems like we'll be seeing Primus sooner or later since a few of his NPC items are datamined.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317149/...mor-and-primus

I really like the design of that cloak - too bad it's not designed for PC's. We need cloaks like that in WoW.

[A Chozo]

It seems like we'll be seeing Primus sooner or later since a few of his NPC items are datamined.

Huh, that gives me some "Ner'zhul Lich King" vibes.

What if the Primus is actually anyone who wears the Primus Suit? Passed from Maldraxian to Maldraxia, from the Champion of Champions to the next.

[Nagawithlegs]

primus being the runeforger is starting to get a bit more credence i think. that looks like they've kept his armor and are waiting for his return, and i like that theory a lot.

let's see what else the build brings. where on EARTH is sylvanas.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317154/...poilers-inside

edit: that's a SPICY meatball!!

I think Taelia is going to end up saving Anduin from the maw for a cheeky twist on the princess/knight thing.

[Quaade]

And all five of those Old Gods are dead now right? I thought Azeroth would be doomed if they were destroyed

The Old Gods have been compared to cancer. The Titans were so large that they could only remove it from the outside, which is equal to chemoing or operating which does immense collateral damage to the patient.

We are the immune system. The immune system "eats" the defective cells that turn into cancer cells, the only reason we see cancer is when the tumor becomes too large for the immune system to destroy.

Once of the methods being researched is to break down the tumore into so tiny bits that the immune system can destroy it. The players characters are so small that they can "break down" the Old Gods by attacking them from within and weakening them by smashing their health.

[Syegfryed]

We know very little of the history of the Trolls before the Zandalari came into preeminence and founded the Empire of Zul

right, but this don't mean they woulkd worship loa after their own time, we know troll tribes are very specific in their own loa

and the Zandalari don't seem to have an issue worshiping non-Troll loa

such? cause anything is a troa loa for then

so why would they cast aspersions on a non-Zandalari who nonetheless ascended to the ranks of the loa?

because it would not be their ancient loa, if a troll raised as loa from that tribe he would be worshiped just by then

Look at how well Vol'jin is regarded by the Zandalari, after all; there's a precedent for this in the lore.

vol'jin is respected, not worshiped, and he did it to deserve, the dark trolls didn't

Sen'jin also ascended to loa most likely and he isn't worshiped by anyone

The Dark Trolls are actually purported to be of the original Zandalari extraction who nonetheless splintered off and settled in the cave networks under Mount Hyjal, and that "they hated the daylight and only emerged from their caverns at night. In time, these nocturnal habits turned their blue skin into hues of gray." Forest Trolls have green skin, and so wouldn't seem to be the source of Dark Trolls.

the forest troll green color is because of the thin moss that grown on their skin, so they could be blue too and the darkt rolls who came from then do not have that kind of mutation.

Nothing prevent the forest trolls of being forest trolls while they were blue before going green, or the green turning into blue then purple.

and since they were blue, they could also may be from the jungle trolls

The assumption is that the Night Elves gained their posture and sense of grandeur from their Zandalari roots, as these are traits the Zandalari and Kaldorei tend to share.

...right, but this is completely pointless since we already know thy do not come from the zandalari but the dark trolls. and the only thing they "share" is a straight up back, and glow eyes, that means nothing in the long run.

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Why would the elementals have an special afterlife? Orcs are not even descendants of them but they are like humans, titan constructs.

they were not simple titan constructs, they came from Grond, who was a giant elemental that went alive by agrammar using the elements in the largest mountain, the pieces of it fused with the life energy created the collossals, until orcs.

And even if there isn't a "elemental" afterlife, there must be a "spiritual" one, more oriented to the spirit of life/life energy, that isn't just the night faye.

[Rhlor]

[Aucald]

right, but this don't mean they woulkd worship loa after their own time, we know troll tribes are very specific in their own loa

Not sure what you mean in this sense. There could easily be loa who predate the Empire of Zul and the Zandalari, we've heard of a few of them such as Xibala. We also know there were new loa who came into being alongside the Zandalari such as Zanza. The loa are pretty much all over the chronology.

such? cause anything is a troa loa for then

The primal loa like Rezan, Krag'wa, Bethekk, and Quetzlun are probably Wild Gods or Ancients, they aren't and were never Trolls.

because it would not be their ancient loa, if a troll raised as loa from that tribe he would be worshiped just by then

We don't really know that for sure, to be honest. While some loa do tend to be centric to certain tribes there are others that are shared among the tribes.

vol'jin is respected, not worshiped, and he did it to deserve, the dark trolls didn't

Respect and reverence is the first step to worship in a system where men can become gods.

Sen'jin also ascended to loa most likely and he isn't worshiped by anyone

I think Sen'jin is just a spirit, not a loa. He's in Bwonsamdi's keeping when Bwonsamdi temporarily visits the Other Side in Shadows of the Horde.

the forest troll green color is because of the thin moss that grown on their skin, so they could be blue too and the darkt rolls who came from then do not have that kind of mutation.

Nothing prevent the forest trolls of being forest trolls while they were blue before going green, or the green turning into blue then purple.

and since they were blue, they could also may be from the jungle trolls

Zandalari Trolls can also be blue-skinned.

...right, but this is completely pointless since we already know thy do not come from the zandalari but the dark trolls. and the only thing they "share" is a straight up back, and glow eyes, that means nothing in the long run.

The Dark Trolls had many traits that set them apart from the other non-Zandalari Troll tribes of their time, so perhaps they're not quite as distant from their Zandalari progenitors as the other tribes might've been. It would explain some things about them.

[Cherry123]

silence about Anduin's fate

[Maljinwo]

Gazlowe is now sporting the title of Trade Prince while Muradin seems to be named High Thane

Funny how Rokhan is just Rokhan even now

[Nagawithlegs]

Nice to see that there's at least one good guy(?) lich.

[Beet]

Oh great, another retcon. So he didn't predate the Trolls at all. Blizzard writers couldn't be consistent to save their lives.

Yeah it’s why I’ve been so sad with the recent lore. It’s weird because Legion I felt wasn’t bad really. Then BFA and now Shadowlands is just fucking it up left and right. They just keep taking old established things and changing it for changes sake. I’m at the point now where I wish they’d just do a time skip in WoW so we can leave old lore behind for good. Enough bastardizing it.

[Syegfryed]

Not sure what you mean in this sense. There could easily be loa who predate the Empire of Zul and the Zandalari, we've heard of a few of them such as Xibala. We also know there were new loa who came into being alongside the Zandalari such as Zanza. The loa are pretty much all over the chronology.

yes, bwosandi can predate the troll empires, but he can't be after then and still hold that much importance and symbolism, if anything its more likely that Bwosandi arose from the zandalari trolls, or the trolls tribes that gave birth to the zandalari who worshiped muezalha and they switch

when im talking about specific is how different tribes have specific loas and not so much of then are shared

The primal loa like Rezan, Krag'wa, Bethekk, and Quetzlun are probably Wild Gods or Ancients, they aren't and were never Trolls.

yeah, almost all loas are wild good, i didn't imply otherwise

We don't really know that for sure, to be honest. While some loa do tend to be centric to certain tribes there are others that are shared among the tribes.

yeap and if a loa arose from a small and more or less insignificant recluse tribe, it make zero sense for him to be so worshiped among all trolls, it just don't match how things are done.

Bwosandi was more likely a Mueh'zala priest and became loa, the only trolls who worship him are the sand trolls(EX-jungle trolls) and mostly likely the zandalari before switching to bwosandi, so, it make not just more sense him to be a Zandalari troll, but also a sand troll rather than a dark troll

I think Sen'jin is just a spirit, not a loa. He's in Bwonsamdi's keeping when Bwonsamdi temporarily visits the Other Side in Shadows of the Horde.

it is heavily implies he is a loa, just not one of the strong/powerful ones

Zandalari Trolls can also be blue-skinned.

right, just like jungle trolls, forest trolls without moss and ice trolls, the skin color here is little argument when trolls diverse so much

since they were blue, its more likely they were jungle trolls who went to the caverns.

That would explain their location on the map, of how the jungle trolls/Gurubashi empire spread more than the amani(until it broke to form the Farraki), and would explain why the dark troll and sand troll skin options are given to the Darkspear(jungle trolls) and not the others, because sand and (probably)dark trolls came from the jungle trolls.

That or just a group of forest troll without moss went to the undergrounds, of even before the forest trolls mutated to get this moss thing.

Its way unlikely for the zandalari became dark trolls directly, the gap is too big, make more sense for then to become something else(jungle/forest) then turning into dark trolls, and since the only change mentioned is skin color, not their appearance and characteristics, well.

The Dark Trolls had many traits that set them apart from the other non-Zandalari Troll tribes of their time, so perhaps they're not quite as distant from their Zandalari progenitors as the other tribes might've been. It would explain some things about them.

we literally saw dark trolls before and we saw one of then in BfA, they share the exactly same traits as any other non-zandalari troll tribe, except their behavior, like hating the sunlight and not wanting to fight, something not unusual for jungle trolls like the darkspear tribe

But, they have nothing to do with the Zandalari in appearance, if anything, they are even more distant from the Zandalari than the other troll subspecies

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Gazlowe is now sporting the title of Trade Prince while Muradin seems to be named High Thane

Funny how Rokhan is just Rokhan even now

They could put him as "chieftain" if he is indeed their leader, blizzard negligence to troll is awful, guess we should just be happy for then to at least have a representative or some thing

[Feanoro]

so u prefer be in oblivion than actually know the truth?

Do I prefer a well crafted mystery to a bland, poorly written explanation? Hell yes.

the Titans had no record of such a being, and his origin beyond his summoning by the ancient Trolls is unaccounted for in the Chronicle.

Or Metzen kinda forgot him, about like he kinda forgot the Eredar corrupted Sargeras, or how he kinda forgot Hakkar the Houndmaster when naming the ZG boss.

[Nagawithlegs]

Rokhan likely didn't get an upgrade in title or armor because of the quests that imply Vol'jin is coming back to Azeroth (and will have a radically different appearance/powerset).

[Lahis]

Rokhan likely didn't get an upgrade in title or armor because of the quests that imply Vol'jin is coming back to Azeroth (and will have a radically different appearance/powerset).

Vol'Jin becomes a Loa.

He won't be the leader of Darkspear tribe anymore.

[LemonDemonGirl]

the forest troll green color is because of the thin moss that grown on their skin, so they could be blue too and the darkt rolls who came from then do not have that kind of mutation.

Nothing prevent the forest trolls of being forest trolls while they were blue before going green, or the green turning into blue then purple.

and since they were blue, they could also may be from the jungle trolls



...right, but this is completely pointless since we already know thy do not come from the zandalari but the dark trolls. and the only thing they "share" is a straight up back, and glow eyes, that means nothing in the long run.

I think unless Blizzard releases official art of Bwonsamdi alive with skin on his face, we won't know for sure

[Syegfryed]

I think unless Blizzard releases official art of Bwonsamdi alive with skin on his face, we won't know for sure

we can say at least with safe confidence that he is zandalari or before, after would just be a nonsense.

mostly likely before