SPOILERS: Shadowlands Lore Thread

[Super Dickmann]

Eh? Didn't Voss's dad die in Tirisfal in Cata?

Yes, because she killed him for his bad parenting and trying to kill her. You can imagine my complete lack of surprise when Calia instead references what a nice dude he was and how she liked listening to his sermons and Voss just bobs along and continues with her apology.

The part where after Nathanos dies Calia shows up so Bob can wax poetic about how wise and helpful she's been despite her having done literally nothing except passively lobotomize anyone who happens to be in her presence into being a peacenik is unintentional comedy though. On par with that beta quest text for the 8.3 Calia questline that has your character comment in his own head how Calia acted with honor.

[Verdugo]

If Calia, Derek and Valeera are now officially part of the Horde, can the Alliance take Khadgar back?

You can take those three too.

[masterjc]

ffs, please stay close to topic and discuss any other topic in responding threads, or create ones for them

need to scroll several pages of sylvanas/calia etc to find at least one post regarding this Thread

[BaumanKing]

You can take those three too.

I am okay with Valeera and Derek, but Calia is a big no-no. I really hope that Il'gynoth's prophecy is about her and not Turalyon, so that she may die in the near future.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Bwom's coming through alright but Mueh'zala is too one-dimensional and evil.

Yeah, Bwonsamdi's ok so far. Come to think of it, he probably was supposed to be an evil character judging by how he was in BfA. Mueh'zala is kind of boring sadly

The thing is, it feels like a side story (all of Ardenweald does).

It feels quite shoehorned to me. But apparently Bwon boi was just added to it because people liked him

And poor Vol'jin

[springdarkjack]

Kael's coming back? leave it to Blizzard to re use another boss again....and again.
So far every boss has been magically brought back 2-3 times minus the Lichking

We are supposedly going to be "redeeming" Kael so he might not be a bad guy.

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lol, old gods are such jobbers now
they went from "incomprehensible gods of madness and power" to "parasitic flashbag tumors", who a single empowered mortal can kill

N'zoth got it the worst, my man went from:

"N’zoth is still lurking. The Titans couldn’t defeat it… maybe someday we’ll get our chance? Don’t expect to hear anything about him in Pandaria, though!" (MoP interview from Dave Kosak)
to
"Ever the weakest of his own kind" (Azshara BfA)

Rumor is, from some previous information/conversations, that N'zoth's plan was to die and then find his friends in the death realms. He would then figure out how to restore all of the Old Gods from death. Then he, the weakest, would have saved all of his pals and they would think he is the strongest. The crux or idea is he may possibly ask for a part of their power in return for freeing them thus making him the most powerful Old God. I am then guessing this will be their downfall.

[Aucald]

The thing is, it feels like a side story (all of Ardenweald does).

Ardenweald doesn't really feel like a side-story to me - like all the other leveling zones, it's wrapped up in the ravages of the anima shortages (which they call the Drought) that have afflicted the Shadowlands since all soul energy was diverted to the Maw. Every zone has its own version of problems caused by the Drought. In Bastion, it has caused Kyrian Aspirants to be unable to undergo ascension - which in turn leaves them riddled with their own doubts and swells the ranks of the Forsworn (who are, in their turn, becoming allied with the Maw). In Maldraxxus it's caused the various House factions to turn on one another in a mad scramble for dominance and securing power, which may also have had its origins in Kel'Thuzad's machinations (and he may also be allied with the Maw). In Ardenweald the Drought has caused the decay of many of the groves where Lifeseeds (the slumbering souls of nature spirits who are supposed to be reborn back into their worlds of origin) are tended - which has in turn thrown the natural balance of the realm out of whack and attracted the attention of the Drust who are corrupting and attacking the Night Fae en masse. Revendreth has responded to the Drought by turning away from its duty of reforming its charges and instead using them as batteries, hoarding anima in caches throughout the zone. It doesn't help at all that Sire Denathrius appears to also be in the service of the Maw.

[Syegfryed]

I think a lot of trolls players like the lore of muehzela and bwonsamdi that we will see in shadowlands

not a fan of bwosandi lowing his head to "night queen " elf shenanigans, and muehzela seems a lot disappointing.

[LemonDemonGirl]

not a fan of bwosandi lowing his head to "night queen " elf shenanigans, and muehzela seems a lot disappointing.

Yeah, reading about him being all submissive to her made me throw up a bit in my mouth. He shouldn't be bowing down to her, it should be the other way around

[Kralljin]

I mean, it should a pretty big deal for a human who devoted his entire life to the Light to end up in a place that is literally light-forsaken. Sure, there might be some superficial connections to humans (Kyrians look pretty human) but that's about it.

Quite frankly, i was coming from a more superficial perspective.

If one were to look at Bastion (The zone), i think one could see that's how your average Human in Warcraft would imagine "heaven" or their afterlive.

The details are obviously way off, but that applies to any of those realms.

What you said about communicating with ancestors is also a pretty big deal and another thing that breaks continuity. Wouldn't one of those ancestors have mentioned at least something about the places we're going to see in the Shadowlands or the nature of the Shadowlands itself?

Should we take a guess where people like Cairne and Baine's Mother ended up?
Maldraxxus? Nope.
Revendreth? Highly unlikely, especially since staying in Revendreth is temporary for everyone but the ones that become Venthyr.
Ardenweald? Cairne ain't no Primal God or attuned to nature on the level of characters like Ysera.
Bastion? Ehh...Baine talked to his ghost, so he couldn't have lost his memory.

Personally, i find it already odd enough that we bump into Draka but her Husband is nowhere to be found and she clearly remembers her former life.

To give Blizzard's writing team credit where credit is due, it's not just the topic of afterlife that they cannot do proper justice to. Limiting things to just the afterlife unfairly diminishes the scope of their incompetence.

I find it a rather concerning trend that the writers seemingly are hellbent and wrapping up any pre established lore at breakneck speed in order to focus on material that has barely any ties to anything, and said material clearly not respecting any collision points that it has with previously estblished lore.

I said it above, BfA had material for 2-3 expansions, any dream of an Old God / Naga / South sea expansion are dead for the foreseeable future.

[Syegfryed]

So, the mad lads rly did it, they bent to the cries about Nathanos and he bites the dust, they didn't even wait the expansion, it is going to be on pre-patch

Feels like some token price, so night elves and other stop complaining so much, i wonder How Danouser will payback this

The part where after Nathanos dies Calia shows up so Bob can wax poetic about how wise and helpful she's been despite her having done literally nothing except passively lobotomize anyone who happens to be in her presence into being a peacenik is unintentional comedy though. On par with that beta quest text for the 8.3 Calia questline that has your character comment in his own head how Calia acted with honor.

Maybe blizzard team think we are as dumb as the characters they made to be, to then if you say someone is honorable, every horde character will lick the ground he/she step in, so we must do the same i guess, Calia act with honor? shit buddy, That's All You Had to Say

[Sorshen]

Quite frankly, i was coming from a more superficial perspective.

If one were to look at Bastion (The zone), i think one could see that's how your average Human in Warcraft would imagine "heaven" or their afterlive.

The details are obviously way off, but that applies to any of those realms.

Nah, that's just blizzard's version of ancient Greek religion.

[Combatbutler]

The part where after Nathanos dies Calia shows up so Bob can wax poetic about how wise and helpful she's been despite her having done literally nothing except passively lobotomize anyone who happens to be in her presence into being a peacenik is unintentional comedy though. On par with that beta quest text for the 8.3 Calia questline that has your character comment in his own head how Calia acted with honor.

Blizz seems to be still bamboozled that Calia wasn't accepted and need to push her into the story, with such meaningless fluff.

[Aucald]

not a fan of bwosandi lowing his head to "night queen " elf shenanigans, and muehzela seems a lot disappointing.

The Winter Queen isn't an elf by any means, and given that her and the Court of Night are basically in charge of the resurrection of the loa it's understandable he'd be a bit deferential. You don't want to snub the person who's literally in charge of your afterlife.

[Darknessvamp]

So, the mad lads rly did it, they bent to the cries about Nathanos and he bites the dust, they didn't even wait the expansion, it is going to be on pre-patch

Feels like some token price, so night elves and other stop complaining so much, i wonder How Danouser will payback this

Maybe blizzard team think we are as dumb as the characters they made to be, to then if you say someone is honorable, every horde character will lick the ground he/she step in, so we must do the same i guess, Calia act with honor? shit buddy, That's All You Had to Say

He probably will end up being turned into a literal weapon wielded by Sylvanas in her boss fight that randomly splits into echoes of Nathanos who yell out "FOR MY QUEEEN!" or something equally cringy. Additionally the joke that Calia actually helps the Night Elves by pretending to "understand their pain" despite being ressed in a completely different manner and with a completely different context (i.e. Calia causing her death by subverting and disrupting what was a peaceful gathering and the Night Elves were slain trying to protect their home) and acting like she has enough presence or understanding to placate Tyrande keeps being laughable. Not to mention it seems like she randomly brings Taelia to Stormwind just to be witness to the kidnapping of it's leaders as well as ensure she is present for Spy"master" Shaw's latest screw up yet again and force their further involvement in Shadowlands.

[Nagawithlegs]

Blizz seems to be still bamboozled that Calia wasn't accepted and need to push her into the story, with such meaningless fluff.

Less they don't understand and more they don't care enough to not use her, and are instead delaying her with the idea that maybe they can get her biggest anti-fans to like her in Shadowlands and beyond before she is made a leader.

I'm pretty sure the idea for her implementation is for casual fans (because lol Arthas LICH KING!! connection + sexy lady) and not hardcore lore fans. Considering even Vol'jin is coming back and they brought Thrall back they seem to not like the idea of races having low-tier popularity leaders anymore like Rokhan and (compared to Thrall) Saurfang. Hence why they are using her and not Voss or Belmont (or a new Forsaken OC).

[Accendor]

I really hope Blizzard does not think Nathanos Death would be a form of satisfaction for the night elves or even be close to Teldrassil.
It was a HORDE doing, not a Sylvanas doing and especially not a Nathanos doing. Even if they want to shift blame away from the horde as a whole and focus it all on somebody else, Nathanos death is completely meaningless. Even tho he was her right hand, she already abandoned him and in the greater sheme of things, he was nothing.

All in all this once again seems very weird and unfortunate storytelling, but that is a general theme of BfA and Shadowlands (at least until now)

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Voss is so much of a non-entity she deferred to Calia on the topic of her own father and had no rank in the Forsaken before BFA. The nu-undead need to be thoroughly exterminated for their own good.

Don't worry, Voss turned into a nice little war criminal during BfA, she would fit the role of an UD leader very well.

[Syegfryed]

The Winter Queen isn't an elf by any means,

she clearly have the thematic of one, the whole zone scream night elf and it seems is made for then period.

and given that her and the Court of Night are basically in charge of the resurrection of the loa it's understandable he'd be a bit deferential. You don't want to snub the person who's literally in charge of your afterlife.

Bwosandi should be his own entity, not bowing before others, especially a night elf thematic one, especially when he is NOT a wild god to be affected by her.

Thats why i don't like those shadowlands concepts and stuff.

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I really hope Blizzard does not think Nathanos Death would be a form of satisfaction for the night elves or even be close to Teldrassil.
It was a HORDE doing, not a Sylvanas doing and especially not a Nathanos doing

so, what your idea? killing the entire horde cause killing Sylvanas/nathanos is not enough?

[Aucald]

she clearly have the thematic of one, the whole zone scream night elf and it seems is made for then period.

It really isn't. It's an otherworldly and mystical forest, to be sure; but very little Night Elven theme to be had to it all told. It's actually got more of a "Pan's Labyrinth" vibe than a Druidic one.

Bwosandi should be his own entity, not bowing before others, especially a night elf thematic one, especially when he is NOT a wild god to be affected by her.

Thats why i don't like those shadowlands concepts and stuff.

Bwonsamdi alluded to having a "boss" quite some time ago in BfA, we just didn't know anything about their nature until now.

[azkhane]

Bwosandi should be his own entity, not bowing before others, especially a night elf thematic one, especially when he is NOT a wild god to be affected by her.

Thats why i don't like those shadowlands concepts and stuff.

Bwosandi is a glorified errand boy, he is on one of the big realms of the shadowlands facing a being that is likely to have more power he will ever dream to have, on medieval kingdoms if you are in presence of the king of said kingdom and you are not equal to that position (king of another kingdom) you bow or kneel(depends of the rules of that kingdom)else you get to the chopping block or to the dungeons to rot, and warcraft besides all the space and dimensions non sense is a "medieval" mmo...

also he is a LOA, ardenweald is the place loas go when they die not only nature beings or wildgods so he cant go acting like a trickster like he do with every one else, you dont want to piss the people responsible of your resurrection by being a jerk.