Calia analysis and thoughts

[Ardenaso]

Or she finaly gets a guillotine. She is a monarch after all.

the Forsaken finally being able to "eat the rich" after all those taxes and shit to maintain the Orcish internment camps

[StationaryHawk]

They're two characters that have very little to do with each other. I don't see the point in comparing them.

I don't want to see either in the Horde, Calia because she doesn't belong, and Valeera because it's against her character.

So much this. These Alliance monkeys can go to hell.. back to their Alliance. We don’t need weeklings and betrayers in the mighty Horde.

The Role Playing sub-forum is that way.

[Soon-TM]

Calia in Legion: "I don't want anything about politics, I'm just Calia".

Calia in BfA: "I was trying to convince enemy subjects to defect, during a peace conference, no less, and I got killed for that. But it doesn't matter, I can still be queen of Lordaeron cuz muh daddy. And I'm so awesome that even those nelf zombie archers come to me, even if they are from the opposite end of the world, have &+#@ all to do with the Menethils, and belong neither to my race nor to my religion".

The Mary Sue is strong here /puke

[Lorgar Aurelian]

and im straight up saying what is happening it is bad, im not talking about ifs, nowhere i saidt he word if

saying it’s bad because they could have used some one else and that people who play forsaken would want some one else is going into what if’s. They could have used some one else but they didn’t so there’s no point talking about Who they should have uses instead or what the forsaken fan base would like more.

in what exactly? list the thing shse did to help then for me, lets put on a balance here, cuse the only thing i saw was she tlking crap with some night elves rangers

She’s helping them come to terms with sylvanas abandoning them helping the new undead elfs deal with being undead in a healthier way then just death to the living and is helping them sort out alliance relations after the war.

you are implying they need new one, and she is actually giving new one, what this new purpose that she is giving to then that they didn't had alredy and could have without her or with any other forsaken that had share their burden since ages

They do need a new with the new track the horde is going down and with sylvanas ditching them. What the purpose is gonna be I or rather they would have reached it without her I don’t know and I don’t care to speculate we’ll see when the story progresses.

irrelevant, cause she still free a lot of then, she help then, even if by "wrong reasons"

Sure we have a dubious number of undead freed by her actions if for the wrong reasons.

Sylvanas undead stated is showed/commented in books, for like 3-4 times, it is completely different than Calia, and again, she is a banshee and can turn into ghost smoke, that is more undead you can get, even her thematic is more forsaken-ish than calia

calia is a human dressed in gold, pristine and shinny looking like a lighforged draenei

again this has no backing. Calia’S undeath hasn’t been gone into enough to make any of these claims as far as we actually know she’s just as undead as sylvanas but she’s white and not rotting instead of purple and not rotting. Even as far as theme goes sylvanas only meshes with it because things like the broken mask is based off her, an undead elf who looks perfect other then being purple doesn’t actually match with any thing other then the broken mask related stuff.

And Sure sylvanas can also do banshee stuff but that doesn’t actually help her case at all when it comes to the disconnect between her and your average human undead as banshee’S are incredibly rare in the forsaken.

read gain then

Nan I’m good.

the point was how stormwind confronted forsaken over the claim on the lands, And again, she gave up that right long ago, their government changed, the people changed, monarchy should not even be thing there anymore

Rather you think it should be a thing or not doesn’t matter the forsaken we’re/are still a monarchy with just a change of queens, rather that changes going forward we’ll see.

As to a royal line giving up the right to rule there are a ton of things that go into something like that but we haven’t seen any of them and we likely never will, being in exile or saying you don’t want to be a ruler in private doesn’t actually matter at all to rather you denounced your own ruler ship officially.

As to the people and stormwind, there peasants and peasants don’t get a say in who owns the land unless they have a rebellion and other royal states let them keep the land. with the actual royal house dead the only claim the forsaken have ever had on the land was though might of arms which is why stormwind and other human kingdoms have wanted to take back what they think belongs to the monarchy’s. With calia you would by pass the stinking peasants and have a legitimate royal claim on the land which would invalidate any other monarch trying to claim it.

[Syegfryed]

saying it’s bad because they could have used some one else and that people who play forsaken would want some one else is going into what if’s.

no, i said why is bad, give a lot of reason, then i said anyone other would be better, this have nothing to do with if's, its just a completement

They could have used some one else but they didn’t so there’s no point talking about Who they should have uses instead or what the forsaken fan base would like more.

why the hell not, this is a analysis threat about the subject.

She’s helping them come to terms with sylvanas abandoning them

Where, how and when, again, this is assuming they need help on that, and even more, help of an outside who know shit about then, it make no sense, therefore is bad

helping the new undead elfs deal with being undead in a healthier way then just death to the living and is helping them sort out alliance relations after the war.

They do need a new with the new track the horde is going down and with sylvanas ditching them. What the purpose is gonna be I or rather they would have reached it without her I don’t know and I don’t care to speculate we’ll see when the story progresses.

and again, how they need a outsider to do that?

we already know how the story will progress, straight up to the dumpster, just like anything else

Sure we have a dubious number of undead freed by her actions if for the wrong reasons.

the reason is not relevant

again this has no backing. Calia’S undeath hasn’t been gone into enough to make any of these claims

we literally have her updated model, how tht is not enough? she is a shiny as a damn pearl covered in gold

as far as we actually know she’s just as undead as sylvanas

That have no holding, cause we know she was being raised by the light, unlike sylvanas whow as turn into a banshee and even had her body lost for a time

but she’s white and not rotting instead of purple and not rotting.

Sylvanas was rotting, it is mentioned in one of the books her undeadness, she is just more rpeserved because of the kind of undead she is, a banshee

Even as far as theme goes sylvanas only meshes with it because things like the broken mask is based off her, an undead elf who looks perfect other then being purple doesn’t actually match with any thing other then the broken mask related stuff.

you entire point looks like is "well sylvanas don't look that much dead, so is perfect fine calia who look like a lighforged draenei, we had a 3 before no problem in having a 30.

And Sure sylvanas can also do banshee stuff but that doesn’t actually help her case at all when it comes to the disconnect between her and your average human undead as banshee’S are incredibly rare in the forsaken.

they are not that rare, and they are sitll undead, they are raised by necromancy, not light shenanigans.

Rather you think it should be a thing or not doesn’t matter the forsaken we’re/are still a monarchy with just a change of queens, rather that changes going forward we’ll see.

they are not a monarchy right now because Voss is their current leader, they didn't shove her into being the queen yet, because once again, the backlash of the playerbase who don't want that shit to happen.

As to a royal line giving up the right to rule there are a ton of things that go into something like that but we haven’t seen any of them and we likely never will, being in exile or saying you don’t want to be a ruler in private doesn’t actually matter at all to rather you denounced your own ruler ship officially.

it totally matters, the kingdom being dead and defunct also matters, the kingdom passing trough a new era and dinamic in rulership matter

As to the people and stormwind, there peasants and peasants don’t get a say in who owns the land unless they have a rebellion and other royal states let them keep the land. with the actual royal house dead the only claim the forsaken have ever had on the land was though might of arms which is why stormwind and other human kingdoms have wanted to take back what they think belongs to the monarchy’s.

So, how stormwind want to take back, take back to who? lolit do not belong to then

With calia you would by pass the stinking peasants and have a legitimate royal claim on the land which would invalidate any other monarch trying to claim it.

you can totally do that without calia.

again, she is a completely pointless and unnecessary character being shoehorned into the narrative for bullshit reasons, she is basically being forced to be a better sylvanas, its awful.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

no, i said why is bad, give a lot of reason, then i said anyone other would be better, this have nothing to do with if's, its just a completement



why the hell not, this is a analysis threat about the subject.

what if's just don't interest me at all, we can analysis the subject based off of what's actually happened without making up other scenario's that didn't come to pass or that the fan's would like more.

Where, how and when, again, this is assuming they need help on that, and even more, help of an outside who know shit about then, it make no sense, therefore is bad

where and when would be her showing's in bfa and shadows rising how is yet to be seen as the story hasn't gotten to that point yet.

and again, how they need a outsider to do that?

Mabye they do mabye they don't. we know that some undead were taking a proactive role before calia showed up but they were killed by sylvansas so she could stop them from spreading home to the rest of the forsaken. rather there are more undead who would continue what they were doing we don't know.

we literally have her updated model, how tht is not enough? she is a shiny as a damn pearl covered in gold

yes she looks different form the rest of the forsaken but so did sylvans so that alone is meanginless when it comes to her actaully undeath.

That have no holding, cause we know she was being raised by the light, unlike sylvanas whow as turn into a banshee and even had her body lost for a time

and we know nothing about being raised by the light, going off of the info we have now there isn't nearly enough to point to processes leading to a different end result.

Sylvanas was rotting, it is mentioned in one of the books her undeadness, she is just more rpeserved because of the kind of undead she is, a banshee

to quote sylvanas her self.

After a moment of silent seething, the Dark Lady regained her composure. "The power of the Val'kyr will preserve my body for ages to come. Your once-human form, like those of my other Forsaken, will not enjoy such longevity. I would prevent your decay, spare you the pain I experienced when…"

she isn't on the same level as the undead humans at all If she is rotting it's at such a pace to make it irrelevant compared to them.

you entire point looks like is "well sylvanas don't look that much dead, so is perfect fine calia who look like a lighforged draenei, we had a 3 before no problem in having a 30.

sure Calia is further looks wise but sylvanas was always such a wide gap from the forsaken that going a bit further doesn't matter. If Calia is a 30 then sylvanas original model was a 29 then a 28 then a 25 where it stuck.

they are not that rare, and they are sitll undead, they are raised by necromancy, not light shenanigans.

compared to the average forsaken they are way rarer though we don't have any good canon sate on numbers. as to necromancy compared to light shenanigans as I've said we have no frame of reference to know if that's a meaningful difference or not.

they are not a monarchy right now because Voss is their current leader, they didn't shove her into being the queen yet, because once again, the backlash of the playerbase who don't want that shit to happen.

your right she isn't the queen yet
if they will keep it that way is yet to be seen as i said.

it totally matters, the kingdom being dead and defunct also matters, the kingdom passing trough a new era and dinamic in rulership matter

no when it comes to the divine right of kings those thing's don't matter, rightful heir's returning form exile isn't an unheard of thing and as far as new dynamics go we haven't had one actually set down yet as the question of if Calia will become queen or not is still hanging in the air.

So, how stormwind want to take back, take back to who? lolit do not belong to then

they wan't to take it back to the crown as they didn't recognize the peasants or an undead elf as having any legitimate claim on the throne. rather they would have given the crown to a nodal or just make it a part of there own kingdom doesn't really matter important part is that they didn't recognize the undead peasants of having any claim to it which isn't the case with a direct line from the past king.

you can totally do that without calia.

mabye if there were other nobles or any one with a legit claim on the crown but that has never been shown and again what the peasant's think doesn't matter to monarchy's.

again, she is a completely pointless and unnecessary character being shoehorned into the narrative for bullshit reasons, she is basically being forced to be a better sylvanas, its awful.

I would agree she's unnecessary, having the forsaken keep lorderon and expand under right of arms Instead of any actual claim to the throne is totally fine and how the horde should work.

I wouldn't agree that she's pointless though. her point is that she has a legit claim so any of the human kingdoms trying to say the peasants are revolting are wrong and bringing in new point's of view when the horde is switching to be a fur friend fun pack of peace makes sense, totally unneeded and unwanted as making the horde just budget alliance is awful but it makes sense if that's your end goal.

[Raisei]

Of course.

1. We know thousands of undead like that.

Which until a few years ago have been killing the living in horrific ways, with the Forsaken STILL doing that. Calia meanwhile has done nothing but offering help to people in need. Calia is different but in terms of merit definately far above the Forsaken.

2. Orc-human hybrid is at least a known evil. Naaru are too mysterious to trust.

This is a completely different kind of undead. More dangerous one, I would say. Who knows what Calia really is? I would like to remind you that Xal'atath is also a pretty girl with unknown spirit and we don't trust her.

It's not like the Naaru and Light are completely unknown things, they have been benevolent towards us for a very long time. It helped us against the Legion (BC and Legion) and the Void in several occasions and allows people to heal. It is only recently that we are seeing some worrysome aspects of it. So it is possible that there are ulterior motifs to the Light.
But compared to the Lich King... eh... the guy that wanted to kill everyone and turn them into his rotting slaves... yeah pretty sure the Light is more turstworthy then that.
Also not sure where you see that Calia is more dangerous? She has done nothing yet. The only difference between her and the Forsaken is that her body is intact and that goes for Nathanos and Sylvanas too.

Xal'atath is not a girl. It/She is an Old God that has overtaken the body of a Blood Elf (which we killed) resulting in her appearing like a Void Elf and she betrayed us to N'zoth 10 minutes after meeting her. Ofc we do not trust her.
Granted this COULD be what has happened to Calia in a sense (a Light being has overtaken her dead body and is pretending to be Calia) but for now we have no indication of this whatsoever.

[Verdugo]

Which until a few years ago have been killing the living in horrific ways, with the Forsaken STILL doing that. Calia meanwhile has done nothing but offering help to people in need. Calia is different but in terms of merit definately far above the Forsaken.

Merit in this case being Alliance puppet, right? Just so we are on the same page.

[matrix123mko]

Which until a few years ago have been killing the living in horrific ways, with the Forsaken STILL doing that. Calia meanwhile has done nothing but offering help to people in need. Calia is different but in terms of merit definately far above the Forsaken.

Would you trust a person that is so different from you? I would not.

It's not like the Naaru and Light are completely unknown things, they have been benevolent towards us for a very long time. It helped us against the Legion (BC and Legion) and the Void in several occasions and allows people to heal. It is only recently that we are seeing some worrysome aspects of it. So it is possible that there are ulterior motifs to the Light.
But compared to the Lich King... eh... the guy that wanted to kill everyone and turn them into his rotting slaves... yeah pretty sure the Light is more turstworthy then that.

Lich King is known to be unable to control his summons. Light seems to be more powerful and there is no evidence of anyone freeing himself from its grasp.

Also not sure where you see that Calia is more dangerous? She has done nothing yet. The only difference between her and the Forsaken is that her body is intact and that goes for Nathanos and Sylvanas too.

Anyone in power can be dangerous. See how much evil Baine caused.

Xal'atath is not a girl. It/She is an Old God that has overtaken the body of a Blood Elf (which we killed) resulting in her appearing like a Void Elf and she betrayed us to N'zoth 10 minutes after meeting her. Ofc we do not trust her.
Granted this COULD be what has happened to Calia in a sense (a Light being has overtaken her dead body and is pretending to be Calia) but for now we have no indication of this whatsoever.

It is still better to not crown her a queen before we are sure.

[Syegfryed]

what if's just don't interest me at all, we can analysis the subject based off of what's actually happened without making up other scenario's that didn't come to pass or that the fan's would like more.

rofl, and what happened is straight up bad, is nonsensical and shit, it is enough for you now?

where and when would be her showing's in bfa and shadows rising how is yet to be seen as the story hasn't gotten to that point yet.

so again, straight up bad and nonsensical

Mabye they do mabye they don't. we know that some undead were taking a proactive role before calia showed up but they were killed by sylvansas so she could stop them from spreading home to the rest of the forsaken. rather there are more undead who would continue what they were doing we don't know.

you ar enot interested in what if's but seems like you are using here, weird

yes she looks different form the rest of the forsaken but so did sylvans so that alone is meanginless when it comes to her actaully undeath.

no, because Sylvanas was more close to the forsaken in terms of undead than Calia is,that is just a fact, both thematically and in appearence, even if she didn't hve bones showing

purple undead>>lighty glowing pristine undead

and we know nothing about being raised by the light, going off of the info we have now there isn't nearly enough to point to processes leading to a different end result

.

indeed it is, because we are literally seeing her model, so, without th "what if'S' right now is straight up bad

to quote sylvanas her self. she isn't on the same level as the undead humans at all If she is rotting it's at such a pace to make it irrelevant compared to them.

still is more undead than calia and you are ignoring that only looking for the "they both are different therefore they ar ein the same spot" and its a false assumption, because they are not the same spot, at all

sure Calia is further looks wise but sylvanas was always such a wide gap from the forsaken that going a bit further doesn't matter. If Calia is a 30 then sylvanas original model was a 29 then a 28 then a 25 where it stuck.

Sylvanas was undead looking, she was purple, she had the glowing death eyes, she hve the effects of undead and the thematic of a forsaken/undead, Calia don't have any of then, she is covered in golden, she is shinny and pristine, again, she can bypass as a lighforged Draene, not a forsaken

compared to the average forsaken they are way rarer though we don't have any good canon sate on numbers. as to necromancy compared to light shenanigans as I've said we have no frame of reference to know if that's a meaningful difference or not.

we have what we see

your right she isn't the queen yet
if they will keep it that way is yet to be seen as i said.

"what ifs"

no when it comes to the divine right of kings those thing's don't matter, rightful heir's returning form exile isn't an unheard of thing and as far as new dynamics go we haven't had one actually set down yet as the question of if Calia will become queen or not is still hanging in the air.

there is no divine right here, and she isn't an exiled by an usurper, she was a person who abandon their people and her right to rule

like i said, is straight up bad this entire thing

they wan't to take it back to the crown as they didn't recognize the peasants or an undead elf as having any legitimate claim on the throne

you only take bake if that belonged to you in the first place

mabye if there were other nobles or any one with a legit claim on the crown but that has never been shown and again what the peasant's think doesn't matter to monarchy's.

you are assuming they need a monarchy, and you are assuming there is no one, nto a single dead person, who belonged to nobility among the forsaken, and that is unlikely.

I wouldn't agree that she's pointless though. her point is that she has a legit claim so any of the human kingdoms trying to say the peasants are revolting are wrong and bringing in new point's of view when the horde is switching to be a fur friend fun pack of peace makes sense, totally unneeded and unwanted as making the horde just budget alliance is awful but it makes sense if that's your end goal.

there is no legit claim, because she abandoned then, gave up the right to rule, and the forsaken stand now in another form of government

humans kingdoms can eat bag od dicks regarding of that, and if they want to fight for it, then the horde willgladly have the forsaken back

is a win win scenario anyway.

[Raisei]

Merit in this case being Alliance puppet, right? Just so we are on the same page.

Obviously I meant that. Because like all Horde players I can only think of non-genocidal non-psychopathic people as "Alliance puppets". If it doesn't want mountains of skulls and rivers of blood it is not Horde! *low grunt*

Oh wait! I am not a Horde player so I actually can judge characters in more diverse fashions! Phew, lucky me.

No we are not on the same page. Not even in the same library.

We know you hate the new Horde, because it has actually spend a few month without murdering civilians and we know you want your evil Horde and your Dark Lady back and every other attempt to develop the Horde will never be good enough for you.
It's been months. Either deal with the fact that "your Horde" is not gonna exist for the next few years or move on. This constant complaining and denouncing is just sad.

- - - Updated - - -

Would you trust a person that is so different from you? I would not.

This is a world where upright-walking cows interact and ally with creatures made of living stone... outward differences obviously do not make such a big impact here or neither Alliance nor Horde could ever work while consisting of different races together.

Lich King is known to be unable to control his summons. Light seems to be more powerful and there is no evidence of anyone freeing himself from its grasp.

Not really. He only lost control briefly because of the Dreadlords and later because of the Light. Every undead after this is completely under his control. Like Saurfang Junior for example.

As for anyone freeing himself from the Lights grasp, well, for one there haven't been many that were controlled by it, only on AU Draenor and we know very little about them.
But one person has very clearly freed himself quite literally from it's grasp: Illidan. And he Eyebeamed the most powerful Naaru into little bits on top. Illidan is pretty powerful but even Arthas before fully becoming LK could beat him. And Velen's son killed a Naaru as well. So they are not that strong really.

Anyone in power can be dangerous. See how much evil Baine caused.

It is still better to not crown her a queen before we are sure.

What "evil" did Baine cause? Or is this again one of those lame denounciations? It is, isn't it?

[Ardenaso]

Which until a few years ago have been killing the living in horrific ways, with the Forsaken STILL doing that. Calia meanwhile has done nothing but offering help to people in need. Calia is different but in terms of merit definately far above the Forsaken.

then Leonid Bartholomew is more deserving to be Forsaken leader, I think

[Lorgar Aurelian]

you ar enot interested in what if's but seems like you are using here, weird

saying "we don't know" isn't going into what if's its just admitting a lack of information. I Could say that they have no more forsaken like the council members that were killed and spin a narrative about how Calia has to absolutely fill that role but we don't have any thing to back that up so its just a big I don't know instead of spinning a what if.

no, because Sylvanas was more close to the forsaken in terms of undead than Calia is,that is just a fact, both thematically and in appearence, even if she didn't hve bones showing

Sylvanas was undead looking, she was purple, she had the glowing death eyes, she hve the effects of undead and the thematic of a forsaken/undead, Calia don't have any of then, she is covered in golden, she is shinny and pristine, again, she can bypass as a lighforged Draene, not a forsaken

Sylvanas shares no appearance similarities with the rest of the undead baring the dark rangers but there not important when it comes to lorderon undead. the human aren't elf's aren't purple don't have the same eyes don't share her level of rot durability or any thing else in common with sylanvas.

as far as thematically the only thing she meshes with are the things based on her she has never matched up with the human undead ascetic she's Instead made new symbols made to match her with the forsaken symbol it self being 100% dedicated to sylvanas instead of the forsaken them selfs.

still is more undead than calia and you are ignoring that only looking for the "they both are different therefore they ar ein the same spot" and its a false assumption, because they are not the same spot, at all

It's not that they are both difference therefore they are the same its that sylvanas was already so insanely far away that going a bit further doesn't matter. when you have a figure that doesn't match at all and instead bends the theme to fit soloy them and there little special club then throwing some one in who continues that trend a little is easier to accept.

we have what we see

and what we see makes them incredibly rare.

"what ifs"

saying we have to wait and see isn't a what if.

there is no divine right here, and she isn't an exiled by an usurper, she was a person who abandon their people and her right to rule

self exile is still exile.

you only take bake if that belonged to you in the first place

and monarchy's tend to think other kingdom's can't belong to peasents in many caes and we see that it holds true in wow with people like varian acting like the frosaken have no claim.

you are assuming they need a monarchy, and you are assuming there is no one, nto a single dead person, who belonged to nobility among the forsaken, and that is unlikely.

as i said if they do they have never been shown or brought up.

[Maljinwo]

Valeera works for the Wrynn family. There's no reason for her to be in the Horde.
That whole "I don't serve either faction" is pretty much void when you serve the leader of one of those factions

At best, she could be an ambassador from Anduin to the Horde. Nothing more


Calia appeared out of nowhere and somehow understands the plight of the forsaken with people looking up to her.
Why?
She's a special kind of undead that is basically a one of a kind miracle. She hasn't experienced what every other Forsaken has. She wasn't forced to serve, she wasn't risen against her will.
Sure, she was the princess of Lordaeron long ago. She also dissapeared for years letting Sylvanas influence and establish a cult of personality on "her people"

Not to mention this is another instance of Forsaken getting a leader that looks nothing like them

[Powerogue]

Valeera is a top spy for the alliance you'd really think her being a blood elf wouldn't help much when she has such an iconic outfit.

Calia is working on it but clearly not the forsaken leader just yet. Still waiting for Blizzard to make her interesting enough to be worthy of the title, they keep seeding little hints that I feel like will come into play in some big future questline. I'd still prefer Voss, even mild-mannered as she's been as of late.

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Calia appeared out of nowhere and somehow understands the plight of the forsaken with people looking up to her.

That's the crux of it: she doesn't.

She has not BEEN forsaken by anyone.

https://www.wowhead.com/quest=52122/...en#criteria-of

Until something like that happens, as far as I'm concerned, she's just a light-zombie with a boatload of ignorance and good intentions.

[Super Dickmann]

I've avoided this thread because of the OP despite my usual proclivity to bitch about Calia given the opportunity but the point about legitimacy by @Daemos daemonium and @Syegfryed 's reply really gets me since there's a fundamental disconnect in the story resolution wanted.

There's been Lordaeron posters Ally-side who want it back since it first showed up as a Forsaken city. The Alliance have never acknowledged the Forsaken claim and at first with tacit action by the Scarlet Crusade then around the conflict concerning Gilneas they've done that. The Alliance playerbase was also very interested given that it's the premier Alliance city - the only real human campaign in WC3 was about Lordaeron, The Second War had the back of the Horde broken under its walls and we're repeatedly told about the large refugee population in Stormwind. The land and especially capital city are one of if not the most meaningful places in the setting. Ditto Horde-side the Forsaken having it and needing orcish help to keep it is a huge thematic point - it links their past and present and as of Cataclysm that heritage and the role reversal of defending it and claiming it from humans alongside orcs was a big deal. There was no legal recognition by the Alliance but who cares - by force of arms it was de facto recognized and their new allies considered it their home in life as much as death. It's a goldmine for conflict but also one that was not at all fully tapped by the end of Cataclysm. Indeed it was only fought by the Forsaken against proxies or offshoots.

This is in part because there was no figurehead for those people Alliance-side, too much about Lordaeron reclamation and restoration which was a big deal to the players was off loaded to the Argent Crusade. Who were neutral, itself annoying to them in how they didn't act against the Forsaken expansion which you can explain to a point by the lack of world power support and again, no figurehead. If only there was someone like that, who could be a vessel for that grievance vs Sylvanas, represent the living campaign to claim their city and would work to push the Crusade vs the Forsaken. Someone like the last living Menethil. A Calia with the same backstory if need be, of trying to live a normal life with her commoner husband in Southshore of all places. And we all know what happens to Southshore even if BTS ignores it. Still taught by Faol if need be, but also in touch with the living Lordaeronians in Stormwind and the Argents dissatisfied with te inaction against the undead. Motivated not by a glowing wind chime, but by her trauma and theirs, knowing she lacks experience so granting her name to the cause instead and through Faol continuity - she won't destroy the undead they can't be saved, but their evil state must be destroyed and they must be freed from its influence to tirelessly serve the living like Faol does and living Lordaeronians must have their home back, their city. The cesspit of Blight underneath that made what killed her husband and separated her from her daughter that has to go. Combine that with the emergence of azerite putting them on the clock and Genn's own grievances and clout and you have a push vs Capital City with the Argent Crusade remnants joining in.

This time properly prepared for the Blight but still with endless chances for set pieces and where the Alliance can get a real win vs Sylvanas while the Forsaken finally suffer the thing they've been dreading since Day 1 and despite it all can't stop it. Sylvanas has another Menethil defeat her, with a new Dead Scar this time being a meaningful callback instead of something you don't even see since Tirisfal is useless. Meanwhile the Forsaken are refugees, civilians allowed to escape before they collapse the Undercity, like Gilneas and their need brings them closer to the Horde, who helped them in the siege, a reversal of Orgrim's attack on the city. What would Calia do now that she's in charge? How would the Horde respond? How would Sylvanas cope without her base of power, having been beaten again by the family that defined her life, despite thinking that chapter closed. If you want to change her route, then what can she learn from this to do better. Standing alone she failed, but if she were trusted by Horde she might do better. Why not be good at her job, for her own sake. If you don't then what better reason to accept the Jailor's offer than her bulwark crumbling and what better way to seal the deal than a city's worth of souls in the pushback the horde is hungry for. What about the Forsaken - the enemy didn't wipe them out and Faol's way gives them a chance to coexist and go back at the expense of what they've been up to now. And the Horde stuck by them, surely now they should stick with the Horde?

Instead no drama, no continuity. Legitimacy given and all future conflict ended by an insufferable writer's pet being immediately accepted. The loss of Capital City with so much history and weight to the Forsaken and living overshadowed by a sad orc sob story, a magic ship and Sylvanas playing 6d chess. All the pathos going to a conflict between undead and night elves that nobody wanted or ended up liking. And in the aftermath people saying that not having more avenues for conflict and development is a good thing (TM) because Anduin gave Femzombie Anduin the stamp that's she's the true and honest ruler of Lordaeron. Offscreen.

[Feanoro]

Would you trust a person that is so different from you? I would not.

I'll be sure to remember this the next time you care to call Alliance racist.

[Trumpcat]

She has no reason to return lordaeron to the alliance if thats not what her people want being part of the alliance or even the founder doesn’t mean you give up your land rights and with her standing with her people before the alliance she would stay horse.

They created the Alliance to fight the Horde. Which part of Lordaeron being in the Alliance includes giving up their rights and lands, whereas being in the Horde doesn't?

If the Forsaken consider themselves the rightful Lordaeronians, why are they suddenly an enemy of the Alliance they founded?

And also, Calia is a rightful successor of an absolute monarchy, she has every right to claim that kingdom over an usurper banshee or whatever regency was left in her place. Why would her people resist her and if they do, she also has every right to fight for her rule and if she loses it then she loses it.

[Ardenaso]

Calia is a rightful successor of an absolute monarchy, she has every right to claim that kingdom over an usurper banshee or whatever regency was left in her place. Why would her people resist her and if they do, she also has every right to fight for her rule and if she loses it then she loses it.

to be fair both the Argent Crusade and the Forsaken has the rights to oust her due to her negligence and absentia; imagine being in deep shit against the Scourge for 14 years straight without a royal guidance then out of nowhere the princess pops up and demands ownership of the throne, the land, and your service

I'm more hoping the Forsaken get an "eat the rich" moment with Calia because Calia allowed the taxes for the internment camps to happen, which allowed the Cult of the Damned to exist in the first place

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They created the Alliance to fight the Horde. Which part of Lordaeron being in the Alliance includes giving up their rights and lands, whereas being in the Horde doesn't?

If the Forsaken consider themselves the rightful Lordaeronians, why are they suddenly an enemy of the Alliance they founded?

And also, Calia is a rightful successor of an absolute monarchy, she has every right to claim that kingdom over an usurper banshee or whatever regency was left in her place. Why would her people resist her and if they do, she also has every right to fight for her rule and if she loses it then she loses it.

They aren’t suddenly enemy’s of the alliance they have been enemy’s of the alliance since they were raised and for the most part do not wish to rejoin it due to all the bad blood since then. So to give back lorderon they would have to give up the land them selfs as they do not wish to be part of the alliance where with the horde this isn’t an issue.

As to Calia She wants to support her people so even ignoring that she hasn’t retaken the crown she wouldn’t want to go against what they want and rejoin the alliance when they are happy with the horde and have so much bad blood.