[Spoilers] Shadowlands: Afterlives Cinematic Discussion

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

well someone is super delusional.

I thought your reply to me was you just joking but it doesn't seem that way. Why do you think it's the Winter Queen's fault?

[Raetary]

maybe the emerald dream is something like the nether for demons? if you kill a wild god they go to the dream but if you kill them there they go to the shadowlands?

No, all Wild gods go directly to Ardenweald to recover.

Ursoc died (fully) because they had to drain his Wildseed because they need every bit of anima they can get.

[Kathranis]

I enjoyed that one. Sure, Ardenweald recontextualizes some of what we knew about the afterlife and the wild gods, but that's fine with me. I'll take a fleshed out understanding of the afterlife at the expense of a few retcons. No worse than what came with the expanded worldbuilding for WC3 and WoW.

I was kind of surprised that Aralon sacrificed Ursoc. I thought for sure that he would sacrifice his own anima to revive Ursoc, and the final scene would be Ursoc joining the Wild Hunt.

[Traveler Voltin]

I thought your reply to me was you just joking but it doesn't seem that way. Why do you think it's the Winter Queen's fault?

how is it not her fault? she influenced her minion.

[Aucald]

Souls give up their anima sure, but I've never heard of them actually losing their identities and becoming part of greater beings. Here's a quote from the Ardenweald preview we had in June:

"Ardenweald serves as an afterlife for mortal souls who shared a special bond with the natural cycle. Druids, hunters, and others who tended the land may be judged worthy of an eternity spent caring for the wilds. Upon arrival, these souls can choose an animal form infused with the celestial magic of Ardenweald."

It is explicitly stated that ordinary souls are not meant to serve as a sacrifice but rather as eternal tenders of the wilds.

"Can choose," yes; but the amount of these souls you encounter in Ardenweald are few and far between, and even they surrender their anima in time to the purpose of Ardenweald - namely, the rebirth of the Wild Gods. Many more are spent in a more diffuse form, as raw anima, powering the ecosystem at every level. Former living souls that go on to become functionaries among the Night Fae are few and far between relative the amount of soul energy arriving.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Ok wait. So if Bwonsamdi is in the Shadowlands/Other Side and dies, will he be gone forever too?

[Vakir]

how is it not her fault? she influenced her minion.

She gave him the choice to do one or the other. He had the option to withhold Ursoc's spirit, he chose not to.

Also, the drought remains the Jailer's fault. So...again, how?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

how is it not her fault? she influenced her minion.

She didn't cause the drought though and nor did she influence anyone. It's very likely Ursoc would have "died" whether or not Ara'lon made his decision. We're shown that his Grove is dying along with all of the spirits there. So why do you put the blame on her when there are a couple of named characters that caused the drought in the first place?

[masterjc]

Ok wait. So if Bwonsamdi is in the Shadowlands/Other Side and dies, will he be gone forever too?

I guess so

[Traveler Voltin]

She gave him the choice to do one or the other. He had the option to withhold Ursoc's spirit, he chose not to.

Also, the drought remains the Jailer's fault. So...again, how?

the good. "i will respect your choice but secretly be disappointed" crap.

- - - Updated - - -

She didn't cause the drought though and nor did she influence anyone. It's very likely Ursoc would have "died" whether or not Ara'lon made his decision. We're shown that his Grove is dying along with all of the spirits there. So why do you put the blame on her when there are a couple of named characters that caused the drought in the first place?

blame everything on sylvanas and the Jailer. when it was the Winter Queen and the others who put the Jailer in prison to begin with.

[Sithalos]

Ursoc has been done do dirty in lore.. First he dies during the War of the Ancients, then he dies in Grizzly Hills, then we kill him again in Emerald Nightmare, and now they sacrifice him in Ardenweald..

I'm actually upset.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

blame everything on sylvanas and the Jailer. when it was the Winter Queen and the others who put the Jailer in prison to begin with.

Yes and? Everything you said in this quote is correct. So what?

[bagina]

Why? She literally said she would've respected Ara'lons decision either way.

Well she didn't bother to ask the most important party aka the soul they were going to sacrifice...

[kansor]

Isn't Ardenweald completely redundant with the Emerald Dream as a place where nature spirits go to rest and regenerate?

[Traveler Voltin]

Yes and? Everything you said in this quote is correct. So what?

so its everyone's fault and the shadowlands is a shit hole.

[Coconut]

There is little to no communication in the entire of Shadowlands, period.

It's really something that baffles you as you quest through the zones. You(the Maw Walker) are tasked to inform the different covenants and their leaders(the Eternal Ones) about so many gravely important things(such as an living outsider(s) in the Shadowlands, these living things being able to escape the Maw[via an an ancient technology, made by the First Ones), Dark Kyrean working with the Maw, Bastion being attacked by Maldraxxus[and nobody giving a shit, they just send YOU, the guy who just got there to MALDRAXXUS to "investigate" what is happening], civil war in Maldraxxus, a warning about the Jailer and his plan by the Primus to the other Eternals, and many more).

The "people" in charge in Oribos just don't give a flying fuck, no sent messengers directly to the Eternal Ones, no nothing. Best part is that the leaders of the covenants(the already mentioned Eternal Ones) just cant be bothered to grant you an audition, you have to work for it, and when you finally get to inform them about all the fuckery that is going on, they don't even take you seriously.

That is pretty odd, I hope it doesn't feel too artificial. Especially since one of the Venthyr Covenant mini-games is supposed to be setting up parties where they invite people from other covenants, so at least some of them mingle (though this could be a new thing for them, not sure).

But it's one thing to say that covenants don't communicate much between each other - that's relatively acceptable seeing how they are separate realms more or less - and another to say there's no communication within a single covenant. Realistically, there should be some sort of infrastructure, especially in a realm as important as Ardenweald, which tends to the rebirth of immortal beings. I'm sure when you actually play the game there is one - grove tenders must have neighbors, acquaintances, people from further up the forest that can give them news, and one should know what kind of creatures work for the Winter Queen as opposed to being hostile; and when the boss of the Covenant calls for a big event, which I assume the Wild Hunt is, news should travel... The clip ignores this in order to give the one character a stronger emotional arc while at the same time explain to us what's going on in a dramatic way. Like I said, it's tropey, but it's fine for what WoW is. Personally I think the other two are much weaker.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Isn't Ardenweald completely redundant with the Emerald Dream as a supposed place where wild gods and natural spirits go to rest and regenerate?

I would have preferred to see the Night Queen's court as a group of exiles who came from the Emerald Dream and took up residence in the Shadowlands, in a subsection of some other realm with a theme of winter and darkness -- perhaps a Niflheim-inspired zone where Helya originally ruled, or something like that. You could have a winter forest in one part of the zone for the queen and her dark fey.

I think the Emerald Dream is being restructured into a "Life plane", where it is the Spring and Summer to Ardenweald's "Death Plane" of Fall and Winter.

[Combatbutler]

Isn't Ardenweald completely redundant with the Emerald Dream as a supposed place where wild gods and natural spirits go to rest and regenerate?

I would have preferred to see the Night Queen's court as a group of exiles who came from the Emerald Dream and took up residence in the Shadowlands, in a subsection of some other realm with a theme of winter and darkness -- perhaps a Niflheim-inspired zone where Helya originally ruled, or something like that. You could have a winter forest in one part of the zone for the queen and her dark fey.

It was bound to happen the moment they announced ardenweald and what it does, rule of cool etc. it is pretty much as old as mortal life in the entire cosmos and the emerald dream as we know was created by a titan keeper. Ultimately the emerald dream is not nearly as important or powerful as ardenweald.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

so its everyone's fault and the shadowlands is a shit hole.

What? You already said the correct thing why are you changing it to "everyone's" fault.

blame everything on sylvanas and the Jailer

Yes, considering they are the ones that is causing all the Souls and Anima in the entire universe to go to the Maw.

[Traveler Voltin]

What? You already said the correct thing why are you changing it to "everyone's" fault.

Yes, considering they are the ones that is causing all the Souls and Anima in the entire universe to go to the Maw.

so you missed my sarcasm it seems.
so i will say it clearer.
everything going with the shadowlands is the fault of the Winter queen and her allies for putting the Jailer in prison.
the shadowlands is a shit hole that needs to be changed.