Do people genuinely think the Horde is evil?

[InfiniteCharger]

Frankly considering the history of the Warcraft universe, war and and atrocities are more common than not.
The Night Elves committed plenty of atrocities against the trolls as an example.

The issue is in WOW how do you frame war and atrocities in a way that both sides still come off looking "good" or at least "noble".
If they had just stuck to pure red vs blue territorial conquest type PVP goals then much of this would be a moot point.
But PVP in the game has always been an afterthought so they had to come up with grander visions for faction conflict beyond PVP.
Hence you get the stories we got since Cataclysm, which almost always start with someone on the Horde side doing something stupid(Garrosh).
Or someone on the Alliance side thinking that the Horde did something stupid even though they didnt (broken shore).

Unfortunately none of that is quite compelling story wise. They should just leave it at the factions skirmish over resources but aren't "good" or "evil" inherently. Or if they do want to be "edgy" then just have someone be evil for whatever reason and be done with it. There is no reason that folks cant be corrupted anymore by "evil" forces or just have pure selfish interests. And part of the problem of not having the Legion around is that they were always the convenient go to for "evil" lurking around every corner. Similar with the old gods. Heck if they really wanted to be edgy they could have gone with that sword sticking out of Azeroth being corrupted and promoting evil actions among both factions........

[erifwodahs]

Warcraft 3 Horde and onward is not evil. It's polarized but not evil and badly written.
We have saved the world countless times, as alliance has and we had several radicalized groups (Sylvanas loyalists or Kor'kron) causing atrocities against Alliance while the rest of the Horde was against it.
People who is saying that we are flat out evil is just racist and ignorant.

[Feanoro]

Warcraft 3 Horde and onward is not evil. It's polarized but not evil and badly written.
We have saved the world countless times, as alliance has and we had several radicalized groups (Sylvanas loyalists or Kor'kron) causing atrocities against Alliance while the rest of the Horde was against it.

"The rest of the Horde" was canonically with Garrosh until 5.3 when he started turning on Horde member races. "The rest of the Horde" was canonically with Sylvanas until she screeched that they were nothing and flew off. Trying to pretend it was only $MeanWarchief and a few followers is absurd, no matter if it's Blizzard who does it or anyone on this forum.

People who is saying that we are flat out evil is just racist and ignorant.

Because it's possible to be racist against fictional characters. Seriously, Hordies need to come up with something new, the "racist" charge is ridiculous.

[Amaterasu65]

Yes, evil hypocrites all of them.

[Aresk]

My most whiled hope is that they announce Warcraft 4 at this online blizzcon and they use that to build the lore while we are away in shadowlands. That way when we get back we may have a whole new world to play in, with new characters built from the RTS.

That would be fun, but I feel like they'd have already announced it if they had planned for the game to be released during Shadowlands, and if we were coming back to the same WoW after, I don't think that we'd be able to get enough changes (e.g. Sentinels being their own faction again).

[Ardenaso]

My most whiled hope is that they announce Warcraft 4 at this online blizzcon and they use that to build the lore while we are away in shadowlands. That way when we get back we may have a whole new world to play in, with new characters built from the RTS.

I'm sure WC4 will be about the Fourth War

[ohwell]

Do you not... do you not understand what destruction means...?

You're either being obtuse to the point of ignorance or simply trolling at this point.

Removing their capital and killing a large portion is not genocide as they haven't been destroyed. Their leaders and much of their military are fully intact. They were not destroyed, thus it isn't genocide.

[Vampyrr]

Removing their capital and killing a large portion is not genocide as they haven't been destroyed. Their leaders and much of their military are fully intact. They were not destroyed, thus it isn't genocide.

gen·o·cide
/ˈjenəˌsīd/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides

the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group

Just because they didnt kill EVERYONE doesnt mean it isnt an act of genocide

Infracted.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Removing their capital and killing a large portion is not genocide as they haven't been destroyed. Their leaders and much of their military are fully intact. They were not destroyed, thus it isn't genocide.

I'm going to assume that this is just you not having a full comprehension of what the words mean, so I'll break it down as simply as I can.

Destruction is not necessarily the total and utter annihilation of something, destruction can be an action or a process in which destruction is caused.

Definition of destruction
1: the state or fact of being destroyed : RUIN
2: the action or process of destroying something
3: a destroying agency

- Link

Additionally, genocide's definition is not simply the destruction of a group, but is better understood if you review all definitions.

Definition of genocide
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
...
Legal Definition of genocide
: acts committed with intent to partially or wholly destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group
also : the crime of committing such an act

- Link

[TheRainman]

Did you not play the War Campaign? Sylvanas had overwhelming popular support until the very end, when she abdicated as Warchief. The people of the Horde were perfectly fine with following a genocidal psycho.

The funny thing is that Sylvanas wasn't even successful, because it was mentioned that the Alliance tightened its grip and was posed to end the war after the Battle of Dazar'alor, to the point that even Nathanos believed it was only a matter of weeks before an Alliance victory. So you can't even say "Well, the Horde people follow Sylvanas because she brings them victory", because she almost led them to defeat.

Pretty much this.

...The purge of Dalaran? That's like claiming Theramore was a genocide because it targetted all those belonging to a subfaction of human.
Nor did the alliance do anything (morally) wrong in Lordaeron; they literally spared the Undercity once (forced by Jaina admittedly) and the second time all unwarranted destruction was squarely to blame on the forsaken leader turning it into a blighted deathtrap.

Also camp taurajo was one battle by defectors no less, it was nothing close to anything genocidal.

So no good sir, subjectivity provides no cover for your poor understanding and/or definitions of genocide.

And this.

It's that way because this is a faction based game that has to try to appease both sides of the coin. If it were not, there is no reason the Horde wouldn't have been wiped off the map multiple times in the last several expansions.

UC could have been leveled at the end of Wrathgate
Orgrimmar could have been leveled at the end of SoO.
The Vindicaar could have destroyed anything from low orbit since it's arrived in the game.

And this.


Honestly people... I play horde but other horde claiming that we're blameless when compared to the Alliance. Get real. The horde atrocities FAR FAR outweigh anything the alliance has done. And the alliance could have easily ended the horde time and time again, and have chosen not to. Faction divide or not, the horde has done much worse, and if there were playable bad guys in the game it's 100% us. Exceptions exist, surely, but in terms of generality it's not even a debate, unless you are ignorant or willingly allow your bias to supersede your logic.


Shouldn't have to add the post script, but playing the bad guy, or the "sorta bad guy" in a video game isn't wrong. I play horde because I enjoy it. Nothing wrong with it, but let's not pretend to be what we're not.

[jellmoo]

Removing their capital and killing a large portion is not genocide as they haven't been destroyed. Their leaders and much of their military are fully intact. They were not destroyed, thus it isn't genocide.

Are you under the impression that every modern day attempt at genocide was to kill literally every member of a race or group in the world? Look up the Holocaust, the Polish genocide, the Armenian genocide or the Rwandan genocide.

Trying to argue that something isn't genocide simply because it didn't get everyone is ridiculous beyond all belief.

[Dazmalak]

It sounds like most of you want the Horde to just lay down and die or behave and act exactly like a bunch of lawful boring Alliance simps so their existence in the video game doesn't upset you.

[Ardenaso]

It sounds like most of you want the Horde to just lay down and die or behave and act exactly like a bunch of lawful boring Alliance simps so their existence in the video game doesn't upset you.

false binary

[Soon-TM]

I'm sure WC4 will be about the Fourth War

Hmmm, I can see it... Orc campaign will come in first, and everything you do during it, will be undone during the Human campaign, which will feature the perfect Golden Boi as a shining example of what everyone in Azeroth should aspire to, lest they want to be villain batted. Scourge campaign would be all about the Lich Queen Sylvie, with conveniently edgy, brooding speeches, and finally the NE campaign will depict them getting their !@#$ kicked out of them for the 460369725th time, so that they have to resort to Human, Orc, and maybe even some rebel Scourge to get them out of the water

[Ardenaso]

Hmmm, I can see it... Orc campaign will come in first, and everything you do during it, will be undone during the Human campaign, which will feature the perfect Golden Boi as a shining example of what everyone in Azeroth should aspire to, lest they want to be villain batted. Scourge campaign would be all about the Lich Queen Sylvie, with conveniently edgy, brooding speeches, and finally the NE campaign will depict them getting their !@#$ kicked out of them for the 460369725th time, so that they have to resort to Human, Orc, and maybe even some rebel Scourge to get them out of the water

I'd say the first parts will be Varian declaring war in the Undercity

[Soon-TM]

I'd say the first parts will be Varian declaring war in the Undercity

Nah, times have changed. With massive Alliance fans in the writing team such as Golden or Afrasiabi, Alliance are simply not allowed to play as aggressors and own to it. They will probably add some asspulled "proof" about Sylvanas ordering the Wrathgate or something, so that Allies can appropriately pose as literal white knights in shining armour.

[Feanoro]

Nah, times have changed. With massive Alliance fans in the writing team such as Golden or Afrasiabi

LOL, imagine thinking Afrasiabi is an Alliance fan. The same guy who created Garrosh, wrote Sylvie for years, loves "dude METAL!" orcs, and is the largest driving force for Night Elves being hippy losers? THAT's an Alliance fan?

[Nnyco]

No and the fact we literally started rebeling against sylvanas so early basically proves it.

[Feanoro]

No and the fact we literally started rebeling against sylvanas so early basically proves it.

She canonically enjoyed the overwhelming majority of the Horde's support until she screeched they were nothing and flew off.

[Nnyco]

She canonically enjoyed the overwhelming majority of the Horde's support until she screeched they were nothing and flew off.

You would say that she has your support too, if the other option would be getting shot by her.