How often do you find yourself rooting for the antagonist?

[Sagenod]

Just finished Man in the High Castle. John Smith is now one of my all time favorite villains and as the thread title implied, I found myself rooting for him essentially the entire way through. His plot was much more engrossing than anyone else's to me and I was sad to see the show got cancelled primarily because of him. I seriously want to see what comes next, hoping they renew it down the line or something! Of course I should add that I don't agree with John Smith's Nazi-corrupted ideology, in case anyone gets that impression from the thread. He's an epic character though!

Anyways, what's a time you've found yourself rooting for the villain in any form of media, especially more so than the protagonists?

[DesmondCreighton]

Wow way to support the nazis. Bet you voted Trump huh? Just kidding. Love John Smith too, both in MITHC and Pocahontas. I root for the villain a lot. In avatar I felt for the bad guys because that old commando guy was so handsome. In Godzilla, I was always rootin for the lizard.

[Caerule]

Can't say I do. That's not to say I don't like evil Villains. I love the Joker, Freddy Kreuger, and a ton of others. But I'm always Team Good Guys.

It is of course satisfying then the villain takes out a lesser antagonist, or even a very annoying main character.

But it takes more than being likable or interesting for me to root for an antagonist.

[RampageBW1]

I don't think I have ever rooted for a villain/antagonist to win. There's antagonists I can sympathize with, but not outright root for.

I think it is because, in every movie or show that features the good vs evil trope where the evil isn't outright evil, but rather trying to the wrong thing for the right reasons I can sympathize with the villain's plight, but can't condone it because the means are too awful.

[Fudge]

There's a pretty common saying.. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.. A well-written protagonist is easy to root for. Law Abiding Citizen, Avengers, and Jurassic Park come to mind as three different but good examples. LAC's main "bad guy" is easy to relate to... Family murdered, kills for revenge. Thanos (pre-endgame) had a shitty idea but good intentions. Jurassic Park? I'll almost always root for animals over humans, they're not motivated by anything other than their primal instincts.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It depends on there reasoning or the protagonist.

One good example I can think of is hansomjack from borderlands, while his methods might be brutal and kinda crazy he’s also not wrong when he says that pandora is filled with crazy murdering bandits and that the planet would be better off with out them.

[Powerogue]

Was really invested in Catra's arc in She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. But does it count when it's "I'm lying awake at night hoping she finally gets a redemption arc"?



I've gotta say I have never so much both rooted for someone to succeed, and applauded when I watched them get decked in the face.

Except maybe Wrathion. Though again, not technically a villain.

[EntertainmentNihilist]

It's very common for me to be *partially* in agreement with the villain. It's common for me to think "well, you'd be right if you would just make a few adjustments to your plan / thinking".

It's also really common for me to be in disagreement with the protagonist, and think the stated reason why the villain is wrong is poor.

It's really rare for me to be in *total* agreement with the villain though.

[Shadowferal]

O remember in Darkangel the guy in charge as bad as he was...he was consistent "don't fuck with me or my kids..."

[Kyphael]

A lot, and the best examples are: Daniel Plainview, Anton Chigurh, and the Joker (Ledger's or Phoenix, take your pick.) All three are very compelling villains.

I guess an argument can be made Daniel Plainview isn't really a villain, but his fall from grace is undeniable, and by the end of the movie, you have his son and Eli Sunday suffering abuse at his hands, and fighting an unwinnable battle against him. It's a rare picture wherein the hero becomes the villain, and still wins at the end.

Anton Chigurh is much more straight forward an example. He's an unstoppable force of nature. He's a terminator made of flesh who can't be reasoned with, and feels no pity. In the end, he wins. Perfect example of real life where villains sometimes win.

Phoenix and Ledger's Jokers are played brilliantly, and distinctively to similar effects; in the end, both win in their own way. You can't hope but root for their undeniable grit, passion, cunning and charisma, qualities varying between the two versions.

I root for the villain when the villain outshines the hero, IE: is a more compelling character than the hero. Interesting villains are challenging to write, and that's why it's seldom when rooting for them is justifiable, but when they are written well, it's just natural to hope they win.

[Witchblade77]

pretty rarely actualy, but it does happen depending on antagonist. last one I can think of was Aneela and Kendry of Killjoys. mind you I wanted protagonists to win as well. and it did help that there was one major antagonist they ended up teaming up against.

I love me some good villains but I don't tend to root for them, just appreciate what they bring to the story. and yes, I'm deliberately making a distinction here between villains and antagonists. while they often overlap, not every antagonist is a villain.

[Biomega]

It depends on the work in question.

A lot of antagonists are simply more interesting than protagonists, because there are actual stakes, and there's more complexity to characters that can actually stray - morally grey is more common with villains than it is with protagonists, for example.

That doesn't mean they're unequivocally worth rooting for, of course. A lot of antagonists are also super flat and boring.

[Dread Pirate Phayde]

Palpatine was right. So was Magneto.

[kail]

If the protagonist is just that bad compared to the villain, I see myself rooting for the latter. There are also moments where the villain is just played out so well, I somewhat hope they are successful in some way.

[Jester Joe]

Rooting for them? Not ever almost.

Finding them interesting/appealing? Yes.

As mentioned, Handsome Jack is a great example of such a character (Or Gruntilda if you want to really go back). That reaches into video games but still a story at least.

There's actually two super interesting video (to me) about villains and what makes them appealing and how they can be done well, worth a watch if anyone's ever bored, although one focuses on anime (the first), the second focuses on games but compares.

https://youtu.be/XqMxH0atn18




Giving the second one a preview because I like that one more overall and it's shorter. Also like I said, does use shows/movies as a comparison.

[Mormolyce]

I think there's a difference between appreciating a really good villain and actually wanting them to win.

The only time I want the villain to win is when the writer essentially failed, creating protagonists so unlikable I actively want them to fail. That doesn't happen often. I remember the TV version of the Walking Dead had me actively hoping the zombies would eat those miserable fucks after the first season or so.

[Mirishka]

I was actively rooting for Prince Nuada in Hellboy 2, because he was fighting against the way the modern world chased his kind into the shadows to be forgotten and die out. Mind you I didn't want him to like, kill Hellboy or something. But I was hoping they would at least reach a peace.

Oh and GlaDoS. By the end of Portal 2 I was totally on her side.

[Kithelle]

I don't think I have ever rooted for a villain/antagonist to win. There's antagonists I can sympathize with, but not outright root for.

I think it is because, in every movie or show that features the good vs evil trope where the evil isn't outright evil, but rather trying to the wrong thing for the right reasons I can sympathize with the villain's plight, but can't condone it because the means are too awful.

Same here...I guess one of the closest comparisons is how I like the Evil Queen in Once upon a Time...but in the end she turns good. I identify with her because as like with her I feel like I'll never get my happy ending...and recent history has once again proven that true.

[Ivanstone]

Of course I should add that I don't agree with John Smith's Nazi-corrupted ideology, in case anyone gets that impression from the thread. He's an epic character though!

The way I looked at both Smith and Takeshi Kido was that they were ethical men working for immoral systems. They fought for a cause bigger than themselves, were highly competent at what they did and carried on in spite of personal cost to themselves.

I didn't realize the show was cancelled. Smith, Kido and Juliana Crain all felt like they had very complete stories. It never occurred to me that there could be more.

[Adam Jensen]

Prince Zuko.

He is *the* prime example of the sympathetic antagonist, a young man simply trying to regain everything he lost, trying to find his place in society. It's an incredible journey watching him transform from this tormented teen with an obsession to capture Aang to please his countrymen and his father, to finally put that all behind him and join Aang in the end.