If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

If the Dragon story is so dead due to their infertility and small population then I guess Dragon Isles is never going to happen. Unless we get there and there are no Dragons, in which case that is just blatant false advertising.

Yeah, dragons being sterile is a non issue, because Blizzard would just write around something like that if they feel that that little lore factoid interferes with their grand schemes.

Again, in Battle for Azeroth we suddenly discover a massive cache of Twilight Dragon eggs, and we have no idea how they got there. They're just there, and suddenly they're a major part of the story. Also after we defeat N'Zoth we find ANOTHER cache of Twilight Dragons whose minds Wrathion begins to clear of corruption.

[Triceron]

The quel'dorei numbers are small but they're not sterile. I don't know how many are alive but some people theorize maybe around 40k. There's a fraction of that when it comes to dragons and they can't reproduce anymore. As for the Dragon Isles, the original concept stated there are temples to Old Gods there. There has been no lore regarding the Dragon Isles in the game other than Wrathion is looking for them. Based on what Blizzard said it was originally going to be, they are the Dragon Isles in name only.

So you know for sure that Blizzard will never allow Dragons to reproduce again? This is basically your argument, yes? That you know for sure they will never be able to reproduce in the future, right?

I'm not sure why you would even bother mentioning the sterility unless you think it's permanent. I know it isn't permanent, since the lore can be changed any time. I just want to know where you stand when you're making this argument, because I don't fully know if we're on the same page in terms of Blizzard changing or progressing the lore.

Also, Black Dragonflight is not sterile.

[Teriz]

That cache of eggs was laid by Sinestra before Cataclysm and hadn't hatched yet. After the defeat of Deathwing, all dragons were rendered sterile. Once Azeroth's dragons die, that's it. No more dragons.

What about the theory that since Deathwing never put his power inside the Dragon Soul unlike the other four Aspects, then the black flight should in theory still be able to breed even after the others became sterile following Cataclysm?

[FossilFree]

A dragon class might work if they were drakonids, since those were mortals transformed into bipedal dragons. Though I might prefer a full dragon race to a class, I dunno. A dragon race could have a worgen twin forms type ability.

Both are cool possibilities though.

[Teriz]

A dragon class might work if they were drakonids, since those were mortals transformed into bipedal dragons. Though I might prefer a full dragon race to a class, I dunno. A dragon race could have a worgen twin forms type ability.

Both are cool possibilities though.

Let's be honest here. Would players rather be a dragon race that looks like this;



Or like this;

[TheRevenantHero]

So you know for sure that Blizzard will never allow Dragons to reproduce again? This is basically your argument, yes? That you know for sure they will never be able to reproduce in the future, right?

I'm not sure why you would even bother mentioning the sterility unless you think it's permanent. I know it isn't permanent, since the lore can be changed any time. I just want to know where you stand when you're making this argument, because I don't fully know if we're on the same page in terms of Blizzard changing or progressing the lore.

Also, Black Dragonflight is not sterile.

They gave a concrete reason as to WHY they are sterile. They'd have to do some SERIOUS retconning that would be worse than the absolute fucking garbage they pulled for Shadowlands. They can't afford to make ANOTHER expansion that butchers their own lore like they did with Shadowlands. Making dragons playable instead of a class just imbued with some draconic power like the Death Knight is with the Lich King would kill the game.

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What about the theory that since Deathwing never put his power inside the Dragon Soul unlike the other four Aspects, then the black flight should in theory still be able to breed even after the others became sterile following Cataclysm?

I don't give a flying fuck about theories because headcanons don't trump established lore. So bringing of some hairbrained theory that disregards established lore already disproves.

[Triceron]

They gave a concrete reason as to WHY they are sterile. They'd have to do some SERIOUS retconning that would be worse than the absolute fucking garbage they pulled for Shadowlands. They can't afford to make ANOTHER expansion that butchers their own lore like they did with Shadowlands. Making dragons playable instead of a class just imbued with some draconic power like the Death Knight is with the Lich King would kill the game.

Again, before I continue any discussion on this, I need to know where you stand.

If I bring up examples of how they could do stuff and you circle back to 'Dragons are sterile' then it's absolutely pointless to debate.

I'm not concerned about what lore you consider sacred, since I am already jaded and the lore was butchered since TBC to me when they made Blood Elves join the Horde. Everything in WoW is just aimless future canon, much like latest Star Wars sequel trilogy material. At some point I just give up on keeping WoW lore sacred because like Star Wars, there's no saving the sequels. Just stick with better material like Mandalorian and Rogue One where it matters most, and enjoy everything else with a hefty dose of salt.

I want to know if you consider the sterility of Dragons to be a permanent thing, because if you do then we have nothing left to talk about.

[TheRevenantHero]

Again, before I continue any discussion on this, I need to know where you stand.

If I bring up examples of how they could do stuff and you circle back to 'Dragons are sterile' then it's absolutely pointless to debate.

I'm not concerned about what lore you consider sacred, since I am already jaded and the lore was butchered since TBC to me when they made Blood Elves join the Horde. Everything in WoW is just aimless future canon, much like latest Star Wars sequel trilogy material. At some point I just give up on keeping WoW lore sacred because like Star Wars, there's no saving the sequels. Just stick with better material like Mandalorian and Rogue One where it matters most, and enjoy everything else with a hefty dose of salt.

I want to know if you consider the sterility of Dragons to be a permanent thing, because if you do then we have nothing left to talk about.

I consider it permanent and it should stay that way if only to prevent idiotic ideas like dragons being simultaneously a race AND a class.

[FossilFree]

Let's be honest here. Would players rather be a dragon race that looks like this;



Or like this;

Probably the second one, though I wouldn't mind turning into the first one when I enter combat.

[Traveler Voltin]

Dragons are currently sterile.

[Triceron]

I consider it permanent and it should stay that way if only to prevent idiotic ideas like dragons being simultaneously a race AND a class.

I understand your position and your sentiment, however I don't think this lore is completely relevant to a playable Race or Class in that our player characters don't start as newborns or can even bear children in the game. Sterility is irrelevant considering our characters have no parentage and no ability to reproduce.

As an argument, this wouldn't prevent Dragons being playable as a race and class. Are Demon Hunters born into existence? Are Death Knights born into existence? No. They're existing characters from 3rd party factions that choose to serve the Alliance and Horde factions. The same would apply to Dragons. With Illidan out of the picture, there's no legitimate way of creating new Illidari. Bolvar has lost the Helm of Domination, so there is also no way to create new Death Knights from here on out. I don't think these are issues that affect either of these classes, because the lore implies that the warriors we have at our disposal are simply the ones that are left of the bunch, and it doesn't matter if they can be replenished or not.

I get that the idea of playing a Dragon Race makes no sense to you if they can't reproduce, but this isn't an argument to make if none of our player characters are born into existence or have an ability to reproduce. They simply exist without explanation.

Again, I'm not saying Dragons should be playable, I'm simply saying the sterility problem doesn't affect them becoming playable. We don't play as newborn characters. For Hero classes, we play well-established Heroic characters that choose to serve a faction. That's more than enough reason for any Dragon to be playable.

[Ielenia]

Dragons are sterile.

I've seen you mention this more than once. When did the dragons become sterile, and where's the source for that, please?

[Triceron]

I've seen you mention this more than once. When did the dragons become sterile, and where's the source for that, please?

I've been doing some digging, and it seems like it was Cataclysm lore.

Some major Blue dragon confirmed it in quests, saying 'these are the last batch of eggs, our females can't make more'.

Then it was confirmed a second time in the novel Dawn of the Aspects, where Kalec mentions that Dragons can no longer reproduce, and the ones that exist now will simply grow old and die. This all seems to tie in with being triggered by the death of Deathwing or the destruction of the Demon Soul, not quite sure.

That is why the theory that Black Dragons can still reproduce could be possible, since Deathwing didn't put his power into the Demon Soul. But as far as we know, they're still all corrupted sans Wrathion and Ebonhorn, so we'd need to find the existence of a non-corrupted female for it to matter again.

[TheRevenantHero]

I understand your position and your sentiment, however I don't think this lore is completely relevant to a playable Race or Class in that our player characters don't start as newborns or can even bear children in the game. Sterility is irrelevant considering our characters have no parentage and no ability to reproduce.

As an argument, this wouldn't prevent Dragons being playable as a race and class. Are Demon Hunters born into existence? Are Death Knights born into existence? No. They're existing characters from 3rd party factions that choose to serve the Alliance and Horde factions. The same would apply to Dragons. With Illidan out of the picture, there's no legitimate way of creating new Illidari. Bolvar has lost the Helm of Domination, so there is also no way to create new Death Knights from here on out. I don't think these are issues that affect either of these classes, because the lore implies that the warriors we have at our disposal are simply the ones that are left of the bunch, and it doesn't matter if they can be replenished or not.

I get that the idea of playing a Dragon Race makes no sense to you if they can't reproduce, but this isn't an argument to make if none of our player characters are born into existence or have an ability to reproduce. They simply exist without explanation.

Again, I'm not saying Dragons should be playable, I'm simply saying the sterility problem doesn't affect them becoming playable. We don't play as newborn characters. For Hero classes, we play well-established Heroic characters that choose to serve a faction. That's more than enough reason for any Dragon to be playable.

You and other people mentioning it need to stop talking about dragons being a class. They're a fucking race. Races can't be classes. The example I will bring up again is it would be like murlocs or ogres being a class.

[Teriz]

I don't give a flying fuck about theories because headcanons don't trump established lore. So bringing of some hairbrained theory that disregards established lore already disproves.

It’s not headcanon, it’s speculation. Head canon would be me saying it’s true. Supposedly the flights are sterile because they gave their power to the Dragon Soul. However, since the Black Dragonflight wasn’t a part of that, they should still be fertile.

That said, the fertility of dragons is a non issue since we find new egg caches all the time in WoW.

[TheRevenantHero]

I've been doing some digging, and it seems like it was Cataclysm lore.

Some major Blue dragon confirmed it in quests, saying 'these are the last batch of eggs, our females can't make more'.

Then it was confirmed a second time in the novel Dawn of the Aspects, where Kalec mentions that Dragons can no longer reproduce, and the ones that exist now will simply grow old and die.

There was also a tweet about it a while ago that has since been taken down for whatever reason.

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It’s not headcanon, it’s speculation. Head canon would be me saying it’s true. Supposedly the flights are sterile because they gave their power to the Dragon Soul. However, since the Black Dragonflight wasn’t a part of that, they should still be fertile.

That said, the fertility of dragons is a non issue since we find new egg caches all the time in WoW.

No. We do NOT find egg caches all the time. Finding ONE cache of Twilight eggs in Grim Batol is not "finding egg caches all the time". That's an outlier and saying we find eggs all the time is an outright lie.

[Triceron]

You and other people mentioning it need to stop talking about dragons being a class. They're a fucking race. Races can't be classes. The example I will bring up again is it would be like murlocs or ogres being a class.

Death Knight is an example of a Class that is also a Race. They're all Undead versions of existing races. You're not a Troll any more if you're a Death Knight, you're Undead.

But that doesn't get reflected in game mechanics, and every Undead DK race has the same racials of their former life, even if it makes no sense like Undead Worgen still having their curse upon death (they shouldn't even be able to be raised) or Pandaren having Gourmand racial when DK's don't even need to eat to survive any more. The mechanics of the game aren't in sync with the lore of races that have become Undead.

Also, no one needs to stop talking about anything.

I can respect your opinion on the matter and agree to disagree with you, but let us be clear that you aren't here to police what can or can not be discussed. You aren't a moderator, and if you don't wish to listen then you can easily use the block feature to avoid it.

[shoc]

There's a hot new batch of Twilight Dragon eggs uncovered as of BFA, right? So not 'all' Dragons are sterile clearly.

Playable Drakonid would be sweet because if the class worked like the Worgen racial transform in combat. No matter what race you choose to play the Dragon class you always revert to being Drakonid in combat.

[TheRevenantHero]

Death Knight is an example of a Class that is also a Race. They're all Undead versions of existing races. You're not a Troll any more if you're a Death Knight, you're Undead.

But that doesn't get reflected in game mechanics, and every Undead DK race has the same racials of their former life, even if it makes no sense like Undead Worgen still having their curse upon death (they shouldn't even be able to be raised) or Pandaren having Gourmand racial when DK's don't even need to eat to survive any more. The mechanics of the game aren't in sync with the lore of races that have become Undead.

LOL WHAT?! No they absolutely are not. Death knights are 100% a class. Becoming undead doesn't change your race. Which is why they still have races. This is such an asinine comment that I can't even take it seriously. Undead is a template, not a race. It doesn't overwrite their race. It adds to it. Calling death knight a race is hands down one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen on these forums. Just stop.

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There's a hot new batch of Twilight Dragon eggs uncovered as of BFA, right? So not 'all' Dragons are sterile clearly.

Playable Drakonid would be sweet because if the class worked like the Worgen racial transform in combat. No matter what race you choose to play the Dragon class you always revert to being Drakonid in combat.

It's almost like I explained this and you refused to read it. That batch of eggs was found in Grim Batol and were laid during Cataclysm by Sinestra before dragons were rendered sterile. And Drakonid would be a race, not a class.

[Triceron]

Becoming undead doesn't change your race. Which is why they still have races.

Race and Class are just titles, and they aren't consistent at all.

Lore-wise, Human Death Knight and Forsaken are the same designation - Undead Humans.
Lore-wise, Human, Gilnean and Kul Tiran are the same designation - Human.

Yet the game treats this VERY differently, because DK shows that a Undead Human should look like while Forsaken exists with completely different looks and racials.
The game does not treat races or classes equally in this fashion, and there are no rules that define what can or can't be a race or a class.

That is why this isn't an argument to say you can't have a Dragon as both a playable race and class. It's perfectly possible, because we have the same thing apply to existing races and classes. Forsaken has no reason to be its own 'Race' if DK shows that being undead should still be the same race of origin. Kul Tiran should not have any different racials or looks considering Jaina and Daelin were both Proudmoores who look absolutely like any other Stormwind Human.

Races are simply defined however Blizzard wishes to. There is no reason why Wildhammer Dwarf shares the same look and racials as the Ironforge Dwarf while Dark Iron gets a completely new set or racials and customizations. There is no reason why you can choose to be pale-skin human Death Knight and not a pale-skin human Forsaken. These are just game mechanics treating things differently.

You can think of it this way -

- There is a new Dragonsworn Class that is only available to Dragons.
- There is a new Dragon race that only has access to one class, Dragonsworn.
- Dragons choose one permanent humanoid form they wish to represent themselves, including access to Racials.
- This is not a 'Dragon Class'. This is a Dragonsworn class exclusive to Dragons.