Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Teriz]

As soon as you tell me how that affects anything. We also have a Sylvanas book coming out. By that logic, the next expansion will also be about Sylvanas.

The Sylvanas book is new. These books are re-releases, and they're almost entirely based on Dragons or Cataclysm.

On their own, yeah probably nothing. However taken with everything else we've gotten over the last few years, I think it's pretty obvious that a good portion of the next expansion is going to be about dragons.

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Honestly, if we really are getting Dragons/Catalclysm 2.0, then I would like something a little like this as far as zone progression goes:

Old World Revamp, every EK and Kalimdor zone. We are squished back to level 1, yes, you heard correct. That way, we all have to experience the new zones and the revamped, up to date story.

Upon say, level 60, we get our ''endgame zones. Let's say for argument sake they are Undermine, Tel'Abim, Zul'Dare and Ogrezonia. This can give us our South Sea's expansion feel that we were robbed from with BfA. Undermine could also serve as the big neutral capital city - if they don't go with new and revamped old capital cities; like Hyjal for Nelves, Stratholme for Undead, Gilneas rebuilt, new SW and Org etc.

We'd return to old zones for max level content in the form of max level campaign, world quests, evergreen world content, living word stuff?

Plunder Isle could be a Mechagon/Timeless Isle style zone.

Dragon Isles as our Suramar, but split into three zones like Argus was.

I think I'd be happy with this for launch content.

Then patch content can be a greater focus on certain aspects of the old world. Think 10.1 Gadgetztan and southern Kalimdor. 10.2 Northern Kalimdor. 10.3 Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas - which we can start to set up Turalyon and the Light as villains, bring in Yrel and set up 11.0 as a Light themed expansion.

Yeah, this is a great write-up. if I were going to plot out the next expansion, I would largely go along these lines. Makes sense given the evidence we're seeing across the board.

[Fahrad Wagner]

I am expecting something similar to Covenants next xpac if it is dragon focused though. One for each main dragonflight.

I’d prefer it to be only cosmetic and story based, but I don’t think they could resist throwing in a bit of borrowed power into it.
(New glyphs and/or green-fire like system for each class and their selected dragonflights would be neat)

That would probably be expected yes! At least for armor sets and cosmetics. I'd love to see a blue dragonflight armor set!

[Santandame]

The Sylvanas book is new. These books are re-releases, and they're almost entirely based on Dragons or Cataclysm.

On their own, yeah probably nothing. However taken with everything else we've gotten over the last few years, I think it's pretty obvious that a good portion of the next expansion is going to be about dragons.

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Yeah, this is a great write-up. if I were going to plot out the next expansion, I would largely go along these lines. Makes sense given the evidence we're seeing across the board.

The Sylvanas book is new. These books are re-releases, and they're almost entirely based on Dragons or Cataclysm.

On their own, yeah probably nothing. However taken with everything else we've gotten over the last few years, I think it's pretty obvious that a good portion of the next expansion is going to be about dragons.

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Yeah, this is a great write-up. if I were going to plot out the next expansion, I would largely go along these lines. Makes sense given the evidence we're seeing across the board.

Thanks. Just want to give a bit of context behind some of the zone choices.

Undermine is pretty self explanatory. Gallywix could form a coalition of all the money and greed focused races in WoW. So think of Gallywix joining forces with a Broker Cartel clan, an Ethereal group and using Venture Co and Blackfuse underlings. I could also see a section of Undermine as the neutral capital city. Also possibly for an extra bit of fun and flavour, use the old mongrel horde idea from the old WoD concept and have Gallywix enslave some Gnolls, Kobolds, Quillboar and Centaur to use as enemies in the revamped old world zones.

Tel'Abim. I know people tend to meme on Tel'Abim but I could see it being a really fascinating zone with a bit of thoughtful creativity. You have a few options. You can go with a lost frontier, mysterious ancient civilisation Southern American themed zone, or go on the other end of the spectrum and go for a cool, middle Eastern Arabian Night style zone with flea markets and Arabian style palaces. Or you can just lean into the meme aspect and have it be a fun, wacky adventure zone.

Zul'Dare would go hand in hand with our old classic Troll raid/content. To make it more compelling, have it be where the Dark Trolls have been hiding out.


Ogrezonia could be a cool Amazon themed zone and could also explain potential playable Ogres. Or Blizz could utilise their previous plans for the Ogre continent in WoD.

Plunder Isle as a combination of Mechagon/Timeless/Zereth Mortis could be wicked fun. Have a big Pirates of the Caribbean Shipwreck Cove style town complete with some more feral parts of the Island with rares, treasures, puzzles and events in abundance as well as a dungeon.

Dragon Isles as an exact copy of the Suramar experience but split into the Argus style of zones is pretty self explanatory.

Then with patch content, have 10.1 focusing on the revamped Gadgetztan and Southern Kalimdor with the Silithid and possible resurgence of the Twilights Hammer. 10.2 dealing with the Nelves securing Northern Kalimdor against the remnants of the Burning Legion left in the area. Then 10.3 dealing with Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas, the Light and setting up a Light invasion expansion for 11.0.

In an ideal world, we'd get a patch release cadence similar to Legion, but with MoP amount of content in the patch. So think for launch raid content, we get a Dragon Isles raid as the big one(Mogu Vaults) a slightly smaller Zul'Dare troll raid dealing with the Dark Trolls(Heart of Fear) and a small raid dealing with a threat in an old world zone(Terrace of Endless Spring).

10.1 is the climax of the Gallywix, Broker, Ethereal coalition. Have the raid start in Gadgetztan then we progress through portals into different areas like the Taza'vesh dungeon.

10.2 a raid in the husk of Teldrassil. We deal with whatever big threat the Nelves have been facing in the North of Kalimdor. Either Burning Legion themed or Denathrius themed.

10.3 is the only one I can't think of a concrete raid for as I think that 11.0 should be the greater bulk of the Light invasion, so you'll want to save Yrel, X'era etc for that.

[Foolicious]

I am expecting something similar to Covenants next xpac if it is dragon focused though. One for each main dragonflight.

I’d prefer it to be only cosmetic and story based, but I don’t think they could resist throwing in a bit of borrowed power into it.
(New glyphs and/or green-fire like system for each class and their selected dragonflights would be neat)

I would like some purely cosmetic options as well, but i doubt we will see that.
I just hope if we get new abilities tied to them they do a better job than they did this time. Covenant abilities are so distant to some specs that it sometimes feels disruptive to use them(in some cases they actually disrupt your gameplay).

[Catastrophy349]

I think another covenants system in 10.0 would be fine IF: 1). There was no "player power" associated to them OR 2). If "player power" exists, there isn't a clear "choice" where there are like 4-5 options and only one is "good".

[PhillyCheese]

I would rather them focus on EK/Kalimdor and some Dragon Isles than have them include additional islands. That would drag the work in too many directions for one expansion.

Unless they make Tel’abim, Zul’dare and Plunder Isles into being the Dragon Isles after all, which would be cool.

[Vakir]

I think another covenants system in 10.0 would be fine IF: 1). There was no "player power" associated to them OR 2). If "player power" exists, there isn't a clear "choice" where there are like 4-5 options and only one is "good".

2 will never happen, ever. That was what we tried to warn about.

If they did hypothetical dragonflight allegiances or whatever theme, they'd be best off decoupling talents and letting us not be reliant on player power.

Hell, I found the game more engaging when I could support each at my leisure. The system they have now for switching is fine minus needing to return to Oribos every time for the ability end of things.

[Varx]

2 will never happen, ever. That was what we tried to warn about.

If they did hypothetical dragonflight allegiances or whatever theme, they'd be best off decoupling talents and letting us not be reliant on player power.

Hell, I found the game more engaging when I could support each at my leisure. The system they have now for switching is fine minus needing to return to Oribos every time for the ability end of things.

Exactly. The only borrowed power should come from trinkets and tier set bonuses. That's how it was like untill legion and how it should be like again.

[Catastrophy349]

2 will never happen, ever. That was what we tried to warn about.

If they did hypothetical dragonflight allegiances or whatever theme, they'd be best off decoupling talents and letting us not be reliant on player power.

Hell, I found the game more engaging when I could support each at my leisure. The system they have now for switching is fine minus needing to return to Oribos every time for the ability end of things.

Yeah, I agree. It would have been awesome to have all 4 covenants to play with in SL from the beginning. Free swaps, checking out different soulbinds, covenant abilities/class abilities, doing each campaign for the story, etc. If they do a "covenant like system" again, it can't be tied to player power at all, period.

[Ersula]

Honestly, if we really are getting Dragons/Catalclysm 2.0, then I would like something a little like this as far as zone progression goes:

Old World Revamp, every EK and Kalimdor zone. We are squished back to level 1, yes, you heard correct. That way, we all have to experience the new zones and the revamped, up to date story.

Why? Why? Why?

Why would they revamp the leveling experience again after they just did it in 9.0?

Why would they take away everyone's levels? They didn't do that in Cataclysm. Even if it isn't an invasive experience to level up again it would enrage a good portion of the playerbase just on a conceptual level.

If the story were up to date, wouldn't we just experience the revamped zones from 60-70? Meaning after Shadowlands? It makes more sense than our characters time traveling to a newbie state just to hang out in Kalmidor & Tirisfal after we fought actual gods.

[Luck4]

2 will never happen, ever. That was what we tried to warn about.

If they did hypothetical dragonflight allegiances or whatever theme, they'd be best off decoupling talents and letting us not be reliant on player power.

Hell, I found the game more engaging when I could support each at my leisure. The system they have now for switching is fine minus needing to return to Oribos every time for the ability end of things.

That guy is a Blizzard employee that's why he believes in that stuff.

[Revamp Man]

i cant see them completely redoing both OG continent zones at once

i can see them doing a few zones and then a couple each patch with zidormii and having the new area be it undermine or dragon isles set as the max level area

[Sharby]

Can I propose an alternative topic/conversation to discuss? We spend so much time talking about what the next expansion could be in terms of theme, setting, potential new race(s) or class(es), etc. Here's my question: What do you absolutely NOT want for 10.0? You can answer this question however you want (story, class, race, systems, etc.). I'm curious.

I think it is time for game devs to finally let go of the delusion that Defense/QoL vs Offense is a compelling choice in MMO's. So it is something that I would like to see removed from design going forward. To take it a step further, I would like the current talent system removed entirely and redone to be like Artifacts where you get all of the traits in the end.


This kind of choice works in single-player oriented games because those games are insanely hard without a good defensive budget, and also the main goal is to cross the finish line. So you can make any "suboptimal" build and still feel good. There isn't a push to be optimal in these games and the devs usually can afford to put more variety (at the cost of balance) into their design, leading to tons of build variance and weird combos that don't hurt anyone in the process.


In WoW? It ends up being frustraiting beacuse you have to choose between your spec feeling clunky/squishy, or doing more damage. Which, the truth is that in MMO's damage will always be king so there's no point developing the game as if that truth doesn't exist.


Covenants are a good example of this trite design. Take Emeni's soulbind-tree for example, her very first choice is either being able to cast Fleshcraft while moving ( a giant improvement to the spell) or a potency conduit. In what universe would anyone ever take the former over the latter? But as a result you miss out on a very nice QoL buff.

The devs think this is working successfully because a "choice" was made, but its the wrong kind of choice that doesn't feel very satisfying or rewarding.



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Artifacts were amazing because you didn't have to make any concessions or sacrifices to get those juicy QoL traits. As an r-druid, I could have the super powerful rejuv traits AND the Tranquility QoL trait that let me cast it while moving.

Even with Azerite armor, the utlity powers only competed with themselves, not the offensive powers. So I have no idea why we went back to this design but I hate it.

It would also be nice to cutdown on the amount of dead in the water items/talents we keep getting. Shadowlands alone has so many worthless legendaries to the point where I wonder why did they even spent the dev-time making it. It just feels like they padded leggo numbers to give the illusion of choice.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Give the housing idea a rest, it won't work in WoW.

I get not liking Player Housing, but the idea that it wouldn't "work" is so lol-worthy to me.

As if a considerable amount of players wouldn't spend hours and hours crafting and decorating their houses.

[Catastrophy349]

That guy is a Blizzard employee that's why he believes in that stuff.

I believe in what everyone else here believes in: 10.0 has the "chance" to be great. Let's just hope it is!

[Ielenia]

The Sylvanas book is new. These books are re-releases, and they're almost entirely based on Dragons or Cataclysm.

So they're old lore, therefore not as important as Sylvanas, which is more lore for the woman people despises.

On their own, yeah probably nothing. However taken with everything else we've gotten over the last few years, I think it's pretty obvious that a good portion of the next expansion is going to be about dragons.

No. No, it does not. At all. It's confirmation bias. Which has been further debunked because the same thing can be said about your other beloved class, since we had more and more and more and more stuff added with technology since vanilla and we're now eight expansions in and not a trace of a playable technology class.

[huth]

Covenants are a good example of this trite design. Take Emeni's soulbind-tree for example, her very first choice is either being able to cast Fleshcraft while moving ( a giant improvement to the spell) or a potency conduit. In what universe would anyone ever take the former over the latter? But as a result you miss out on a very nice QoL buff.

When you're a tank. These trees aren't just for DDs.

[Teriz]

No. No, it does not. At all. It's confirmation bias. Which has been further debunked because the same thing can be said about your other beloved class, since we had more and more and more and more stuff added with technology since vanilla and we're now eight expansions in and not a trace of a playable technology class.

Oh brother....

Look, Blizzard has a history of hinting and outright previewing future content. They have done it for years, and they're doing it now. It's as simple as that.

[Allstarme]

No. I’m just saying Warlords is still clearly the worst. Easily. If anyone says this is the worst they have have forgotten what happened or didn’t pay them.

[Revamp Man]

dadgar is getting old....whos ready for MEDAN!!!!!

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Oh brother....

Look, Blizzard has a history of hinting and outright previewing future content. They have done it for years, and they're doing it now. It's as simple as that.

thats true but you use the previous patterns to shoehorn your justifications

the last mount before an announcement shows the next expansion: TRUE
the steamscale therefore is a preview for a future expansion: FALSE

the companion pet from the last anniversary matched a mount in the store: TRUE
This points towards the next expansion: FALSE

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blizzards 30th anniversary pet is a moontouched dragon

we fought death...now we must fight life