Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Varodoc]

Heavily using the Light / Void in this expansion (aka the final patch) would just add more mess to an already messy and convoluted story. Only the Burning Legion is missing then to make this clusterf*ck complete. Please let's resolve the Death-related stuff first and after that, in the pre-patch, we can set up the next expansion.

If we get the forces of the Light and Void now on top of everything else this would be an Avengers Endgame kind of situation which would be just silly.

The Burning Legion is disbanded with Sargeras gone.

If Sargeras was still the leader, he would undoubtedly try to stop the Janitor. We already know that the Legion was at war with the forces of Death, since Draka and the spies of Maldraxxus were deployed on a Legion world to spy on Legion troops. So there was war between the Legion and the Shadowlands.

I don't think you understand that the Janitor, in his hubris, seeks to remake reality. It would just be horrible writing if the Light and Void didn't take any drastic measure; especially the Void. It is shown many times that the Void sees Death as the "true enemy", the Void Lords should absolutely send their forces to try and stop the Janitor.

We also know that the Light made a bargain with Death, so that's one more plot thread that remains open.

Would it make for a big clusterfuck of cosmic forces? Yes. Would it also make sense? Yes, otherwise don't introduce 6 Cosmic forces all vying for Cosmic domination.

Since the Janitor seeks to unmake "ALL OF REALITY", it's clearly no longer just Death stuff. It concerns everything and everyone, Naaru and Void Lords included.

[Nyel]

The Burning Legion is disbanded with Sargeras gone.

If Sargeras was still the leader, he would undoubtedly try to stop the Janitor. We already know that the Legion was at war with the forces of Death, since Draka and the spies of Maldraxxus were deployed on a Legion world to spy on Legion troops. So there was war between the Legion and the Shadowlands.

I don't think you understand that the Janitor, in his hubris, seeks to remake reality. It would just be horrible writing if the Light and Void didn't take any drastic measure; especially the Void. It is shown many times that the Void sees Death as the "true enemy", the Void Lords should absolutely send their forces to try and stop the Janitor.

We also know that the Light made a bargain with Death, so that's one more plot thread that remains open.

Would it make for a big clusterfuck of cosmic forces? Yes. Would it also make sense? Yes, otherwise don't introduce 6 Cosmic forces all vying for Cosmic domination.

Since the Janitor seeks to unmake "ALL OF REALITY", it's clearly no longer just Death stuff. It concerns everything and everyone, Naaru and Void Lords included.

I get all of this. What you say makes sense. But they can't even untangle the single Death-related storyline. How should they get the writing for a cosmic war with 4 or 5 of the major forces right? This sounds so incredibly bad already, I don't want them to even try at this point.

Maybe the next expansion really should be tabula rasa and named World of Warcraft: Awokenings, it would fit their current agenda.

[Varodoc]

I get all of this. What you say makes sense. But they can't even untangle the single Death-related storyline. How should they get the writing for a cosmic war with 4 or 5 of the major forces right? This sounds so incredibly bad already, I don't want them to even try at this point.

Maybe the next expansion really should be tabula rasa and named World of Warcraft: Awokenings, it would fit their current agenda.

Not 4 or 5, just the Light and Void would be enough.

It would be possible to feature 3 forces. Patch 7.3 of Legion indeed featured 3 forces: the Burning Legion (naturally), the Army of the Light, and the Void in Mac'aree.

A section of the final raid could feature a minion of the Light or the Void trying to stop the Janitor, that would be interesting to see (the creature could either get in our way or try to help us). Or conversely the forces of the Light could come to the Janitor's aid, since it was stated in a whisper that the Light made a bargain with Janitor (the "enemy of all" from the perspective of the Old God N'Zoth).

There is also a precedent of the final patch of an expansion featuring elements that appear in the following expansion (Iron Star in 5.3, Legion in 6.2), so personally it would make sense to feature the Lightbound in some way, since they'll obviously appear in 10.0. Perhaps what the Janitor is trying to do could serve as prelude for an invasion of the Lightbound in MU Azeroth. We also know that the Lightbound are trying to conquer the entire Cosmos, so it makes sense that they would get involved with the Cosmic shenanigans the Janitor is trying to do.

Of course, nothing since patch 8.0 is comparable to patch 7.3, which in my opinion is the best patch in this game's history (at least when it comes to the Lore and Story for certain), but they can try.

Also the next expansion will be Legion 2.0, at least from a hype perspective. So expect the Void Lords to be featured massively. The Void Lords have pretty much been the overarching villains of the franchise since Chronicles came out. As they are the begins responsible for Sargeras' descent into madness and the creation of the Old Gods.

What better time to feature the Void Lords than in the expansion after ShitLands?

[Dracullus]

For sure community right now would react better to reset expac with "pristine" Azeroth revamp than "end of the world" Void/Light invasion. No matter what we need connection to Azeroth or Azeroth lore, I suspect it will be through Arthas and they regret Sylvanas is anchor of 9.1, not him.

[Varodoc]

But naturally all of this is just speculation; although the fact that Turalyon became the leader of the Alliance should tell you where the story is headed next

[Fahrad Wagner]

Please, no more mish-mashing plot lines.

This a thousand times please.

[Lady Atia]

Not 4 or 5, just the Light and Void would be enough.

It would be possible to feature 3 forces. Patch 7.3 of Legion indeed featured 3 forces: the Burning Legion (naturally), the Army of the Light, and the Void in Mac'aree.

A section of the final raid could feature a minion of the Light or the Void trying to stop the Janitor, that would be interesting to see (the creature could either get in our way or try to help us). Or conversely the forces of the Light could come to the Janitor's aid, since it was stated in a whisper that the Light made a bargain with Janitor (the "enemy of all" from the perspective of the Old God N'Zoth).

There is also a precedent of the final patch of an expansion featuring elements that appear in the following expansion (Iron Star in 5.3, Legion in 6.2), so personally it would make sense to feature the Lightbound in some way, since they'll obviously appear in 10.0. Perhaps what the Janitor is trying to do could serve as prelude for an invasion of the Lightbound in MU Azeroth. We also know that the Lightbound are trying to conquer the entire Cosmos, so it makes sense that they would get involved with the Cosmic shenanigans the Janitor is trying to do.

Of course, nothing since patch 8.0 is comparable to patch 7.3, which in my opinion is the best patch in this game's history (at least when it comes to the Lore and Story for certain), but they can try.

Also the next expansion will be Legion 2.0, at least from a hype perspective. So expect the Void Lords to be featured massively. The Void Lords have pretty much been the overarching villains of the franchise since Chronicles came out. As they are the begins responsible for Sargeras' descent into madness and the creation of the Old Gods.

What better time to feature the Void Lords than in the expansion after ShitLands?

Actually, with Shadowlands the Nathrezim/Death are responsible for Sargeras' descent into madness, not the void.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This a thousand times please.

Its really not complicated.

[Varodoc]

Such boring takes in this thread, why are people here so scared to think outside the box?

[draugril]

Such boring takes in this thread, why are people here so scared to think outside the box?

The box is comfortable. And modern Blizzard doesn't have the best track record with thinking outside of it.

[Varodoc]

The box is comfortable. And modern Blizzard doesn't have the best track record with thinking outside of it.

To be honest it's not even such a wild take, there have been hints at Void vs. Death since the Three Sisters comic, where the Void Lords referred to the Janitor as the "Enemy of all". This is the culmination of at least one stage of that conflict.

They can take the opportunity to also feature some of the monsters that will appear in the inevitable Void expansion. I for one would be more interested in Shadowlands if there was another villainous faction besides the Janitor and his grunts.

[Nyel]

To be honest it's not even such a wild take, there have been hints at Void vs. Death since the Three Sisters comic, where the Void Lords referred to the Janitor as the "Enemy of all". This is the culmination of at least one stage of that conflict.

They can take the opportunity to also feature some of the monsters that will appear in the inevitable Void expansion. I for one would be more interested in Shadowlands if there was another villainous faction besides the Janitor and his grunts.

Bringing the Void into play makes the Shadowlands even more pointless. They would basically trash everything they tried to build up in this expansion when all of a sudden a new omega threat is appearing. Not that they have massively underdeveloped the Shadowlands anyway, but with interaction of Light/Void everything we learned about the Eternal Ones, the afterlive etc. would have been completely meaningless as it would be denigrated to be the location the expansion took place, but eventually never mattered at all. The Shadowlands would just act as an interlude to the Void stuff. Do you think they would actually do this? I mean if that happens, this entire expansion was WoD 2.0 from start to finish aka filler plot.

[Varodoc]

Bringing the Void into play makes the Shadowlands even more pointless. They would basically trash everything they tried to build up in this expansion when all of a sudden a new omega threat is appearing. Not that they have massively underdeveloped the Shadowlands anyway, but with interaction of Light/Void everything we learned about the Eternal Ones, the afterlive etc. would have been completely meaningless as it would be denigrated to be the location the expansion took place, but eventually never mattered at all. The Shadowlands would just act as an interlude to the Void stuff. Do you think they would actually do this? I mean if that happens, this entire expansion was WoD 2.0 from start to finish aka filler plot.

But Shadowlands IS pointless.

That's why the plot has now moved beyond the Shadowlands. To the vault of the First Ones, where the Janitor seeks to unmake reality (and thus the conflict now involves all forces at play in Reality).

To be honest Shadowlands could have ended at 9.1 and it would have been perfectly fine from a story standpoint. No one cares about the Shadowlands now, there's nothing of value left for the Janitor there.

[Nyel]

But Shadowlands IS pointless.

I agree, this entire expansion is pointless from a lore perspective. But if they do 9.2 right and make it a bombastic finale with the Jailer and solely focus on the forces of the Shadowlands (+Azeroth), they can turn this around. If they don't do this, everybody will remember this expansion as a worse version of WoD with slightly more content.

And I agree that they could have ended this expansion with 9.1 already. The Shadowlands, at least the parts we know, are said and done at this point. That's why we speculate that the next patch doesn't (solely) take place there. There's no more stories to be told in the Shadowlands. But that doesn't mean this expansion has been 100% pointless. As I said, if 9.2 gives us the Jailer - Azeroth connection, still 2/3 of this expansion would have been pointless, but the remaining 1/3 would matter. And that's - for me - good enough to give this entire mess a conclusion.

[Three Faced Goddess]

What if the Jailor manages to unmake reality or begin the process of it? What if, in order to save reality after it's been damaged, it has to be reset? We could begin anew on Azeroth where, while characters and events are similar, events happen differently. For example, there's still a Lich King but in this version someone else dons the helm and wields Frostmourne? What if Lor'themar dies during the Scourging of Quel'thalas instead of Sylvanas and becomes a banshee queen esque character? It's a chance to undo all the stupid inflicted on the original Warcraft I-III as it's an alternate reality. Or maybe the Azeroth we know is actually alternate Azeroth. Honestly, I'm just spinning ideas. No one take me seriously.

[Hitei]

Bringing the Void into play makes the Shadowlands even more pointless. They would basically trash everything they tried to build up in this expansion when all of a sudden a new omega threat is appearing. Not that they have massively underdeveloped the Shadowlands anyway, but with interaction of Light/Void everything we learned about the Eternal Ones, the afterlive etc. would have been completely meaningless as it would be denigrated to be the location the expansion took place, but eventually never mattered at all.

That is how every expansion works. Outland was completely pointless beyond being the initial staging point for the Legion's invasion, which is why the last tier takes place in Quel'thalas, because Outland itself didn't matter at all. Pandaria didn't matter beyond the fact that the opposing faction was there, so when Garrosh's forces leave everyone follows back to Orgrimmar. Northrend itself doesn't matter at all, just that the scourge happened to be based there, the expansion only takes place solely in Northrend because the terrible writing had Arthas doing fuck all and 99% of the scourge forces just hanging out in Northrend. If Arthas had actually bothered to go attack someplace the 3.3 raid could have easily been anywhere else because nothing but him and the other top end people in the scourge mattered by that point.

[shoc]

What if the Jailor manages to unmake reality or begin the process of it? What if, in order to save reality after it's been damaged, it has to be reset? We could begin anew on Azeroth where, while characters and events are similar, events happen differently. For example, there's still a Lich King but in this version someone else dons the helm and wields Frostmourne? What if Lor'themar dies during the Scourging of Quel'thalas instead of Sylvanas and becomes a banshee queen esque character? It's a chance to undo all the stupid inflicted on the original Warcraft I-III as it's an alternate reality. Or maybe the Azeroth we know is actually alternate Azeroth. Honestly, I'm just spinning ideas. No one take me seriously.

I am thinking, the big brand heroes of Azeroth are going to be the next Pantheon

Sylvanas will take the Jailer's orb, becoming the new Goddess of Death.
Illidan will slay Sargeras and take his power, becoming the God of Disorder.
Tyrande becomes the permanent avatar of Elune, becoming the Goddess of Life.
Alleria masters the Void Naaru inside of her, becoming the Goddess of Shadow.
Turalyon gets juiced up by another Prime Naaru, becoming the God of Light.
Jaina just keeps getting buffed somehow and becomes the Goddess of Order.

And in classic Blizzard writing they will all hold hands, bringing peace to the universe. The end.

[Varodoc]

I am thinking, the big brand heroes of Azeroth are going to be the next Pantheon

Sylvanas will take the Jailer's orb, becoming the new Goddess of Death.
Illidan will slay Sargeras and take his power, becoming the God of Disorder.
Tyrande becomes the permanent avatar of Elune, becoming the Goddess of Life.
Alleria masters the Void Naaru inside of her, becoming the Goddess of Shadow.
Turalyon gets juiced up by another Prime Naaru, becoming the God of Light.
Jaina just keeps getting buffed somehow and becomes the Goddess of Order.

And in classic Blizzard writing they will all hold hands, bringing peace to the universe. The end.

The only one that makes sense is Alleria, and that's because she already has the power of a God, the power of the Dark Naaru (the Naaru are deities and are the Cosmic counterpart of the Old GODS). So Alleria unlike these cretins is already a Demi-God.

I could see her consuming a Void Lord in the future.

That being said, all these other people are mere mortals, they don't belong in any Pantheon.

[TheFirstOnes]

Finally, I am back logged onto the computer. Forgot my username for some reason lol.

But yeah, just to rundown on the shit I think: The recent changes in WoW blow, and they shouldn't need to exist.

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The only one that makes sense is Alleria, and that's because she already has the power of a God, the power of the Dark Naaru (the Naaru are deities and are the Cosmic counterpart of the Old GODS). So Alleria unlike these cretins is already a Demi-God.

I could see her consuming a Void Lord in the future.

That being said, all these other people are mere mortals, they don't belong in any Pantheon.

The Naaru suck ass, and they aren't really that comparable to the Old Gods unless you want to MAYBE compare them in cosmic hierarchy. But I do agree that none of these people should be in a Pantheon.

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Also, here's an idea people, how about you let SL stay as the Life/Death (Heavily Death focused) expansion? Maybe give us a Life Pantheon if we need to, but please just keep the focus on Death and the First Ones. Please.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Old Gods are as much gods as lightning strikes can be attributed to zeus having eaten something wrong. And frankly naaru seem considerably weaker yet again, including the effing prime naaru.
None of the Azeroth schmocks should become central figures in the cosmology.

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Also, here's an idea people, how about you let SL stay as the Life/Death (Heavily Death focused) expansion? Maybe give us a Life Pantheon if we need to, but please just keep the focus on Death and the First Ones. Please.

I mean technically the first ones are already way beyond the scope of death&life, they were the founding figures of the whole universe and the figures behind the cosmic forces, the closest to actual gods as we know right now.