Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[shimerra]

Be that as it may... isn't that a good sign that people are active and want things to move quickly because we all know things are urgent as fuck as it looks likely the democrats may lose their majority in 2 years.

I mean honestly, apathy in politics has been a huge huge huge huge huge problem. A large portion of this thread has over the last two dozen pages has come down to people being mad at people not being apathetic... and being "too urgent" and "too demanding".

Though if you function from the idea that in less than two years nothing will be able to get done again... what do you do?

We already lost the courts and the democrats won't expand them thanks to some conservative democrats.

Less voter apathy is a good sign. As is a general increase in engagement in politics.

Making ridiculous demands, or even reasonable demands with ridiculous time tables, and expecting literally everything you want to be done instantly and raging when it isn't is not a good sign of anything. No one's saying shut the fuck up and be quiet until he's X years or months in in terms of voicing your concerns.

But whining that everything isn't fixed or done to your liking on day one isn't the same as ensuring your concerns are addressed and isn't particularly helpful for your own goals. Especially when you factor in the fact that his team's moving pretty damn quickly as addressing what he can with executive power after Trump's admin knee capped them by obstructing the transition team's work for months.

One pretty good example was actually from Hulu's Hillary documentary. A Bernie supporter came up yelling at her why she hadn't promised to ban fracking like Sanders had. And then you got to watch the rando's mind explode as Hillary had to explain that the President can't actually just ban fracking with the stroke of a pen. Right now that interaction kinda described you.

[Edge-]

Be that as it may... isn't that a good sign that people are active and want things to move quickly because we all know things are urgent as fuck as it looks likely the democrats may lose their majority in 2 years.

Be that as it may, there are still a limited number of hours in the day, we're ONE WEEK into this administration, they're still staffing up and trying to pick up pieces, and can only accomplish so much at once.

That's not to say that pressure shouldn't remain, but it's the "OH WHY ISN'T HE DOING X ALREADY?!" type stuff that's annoying as fuck. People seem to think there's an unlimited number of hours in the day and the White House has an endless staff capable of doing years work of worth in a matter of days.

Some shit just takes more time, or is lower on the priority list. Often times lower than a host of priorities we don't know about due to national security.

I mean honestly, apathy in politics has been a huge huge huge huge huge problem. A large portion of this thread has over the last two dozen pages has come down to people being mad at people not being apathetic... and being "too urgent" and "too demanding".

From me, it's more that people seem to get on their high horses and shout proclamations and make demands without understanding how the government works, or how the presidency works, or how reality works. People demanding he do shit that the president has no authority to do and getting angry when told he can't do it and it requires Congress.

We already lost the courts and the democrats won't expand them thanks to some conservative democrats.

I mean...I'd argue Biden's off to a pretty solid start already. I've been pleased with how quickly his administration is moving on issues from Russia to private prisons to climate to covid to LGBTQ+ rights etc. etc. etc. all while they're still getting nominees confirmed and in 7 days.

[cubby]

Be that as it may... isn't that a good sign that people are active and want things to move quickly because we all know things are urgent as fuck as it looks likely the democrats may lose their majority in 2 years.

I mean honestly, apathy in politics has been a huge huge huge huge huge problem. A large portion of this thread has over the last two dozen pages has come down to people being mad at people not being apathetic... and being "too urgent" and "too demanding".

Though if you function from the idea that in less than two years nothing will be able to get done again... what do you do?

We already lost the courts and the democrats won't expand them thanks to some conservative democrats.

There are obvious policy issues that do need to move quickly, in part because of the GOP lethargy and Trump's entire incompetence. But in general, a democracy is designed to move slow. Historically, major policy issues don't happen over night, and while that can be frustrating to some, it's good for the country, because it doesn't cause too much change too quickly.

Of course, the past 20 or so years have been a partisan gridlock out of Machiavellian nightmares. We do need to pass legislation and move the country forward, so we do need to push harder. How that is going to happen with the Senate being so tight is beyond me.

And yeah, the democrats won't be able to push major changes like court expansion or statehood until they gain more Senate seats (and win back some House seats as well).

[Themius]

Less voter apathy is a good sign. As is a general increase in engagement in politics.

Making ridiculous demands, or even reasonable demands with ridiculous time tables, and expecting literally everything you want to be done instantly and raging when it isn't is not a good sign of anything. No one's saying shut the fuck up and be quiet until he's X years or months in in terms of voicing your concerns.

But whining that everything isn't fixed or done to your liking on day one isn't the same as ensuring your concerns are addressed and isn't particularly helpful for your own goals. Especially when you factor in the fact that his team's moving pretty damn quickly as addressing what he can with executive power after Trump's admin knee capped them by obstructing the transition team's work for months.

The time table is what it is because of how stupid our system works and how we know we may indeed have a tough midterm

[AntiFascistVoter]

Biden keeps ticking off the squares on my Porgressive Bingo Sheet^tm. What's next, mixed meters in the National Anthem?

SCOOP: Biden starts staffing a commission on Supreme Court reform

The Biden administration is moving forward with the creation of a bipartisan commission to study reforms to the Supreme Court and the federal judiciary.

The commission will be housed under the purview of the White House Counsel’s office and filled out with the behind-the-scenes help of the Biden campaign’s lawyer Bob Bauer. Its specific mandate is still being decided. But, in a signal that the commission is indeed moving ahead, some members have already been selected, according to multiple people familiar with the discussions.


I dunno if this is typical Politco gossip. But they name sources and quotes are complete sentences.

[Themius]

There are obvious policy issues that do need to move quickly, in part because of the GOP lethargy and Trump's entire incompetence. But in general, a democracy is designed to move slow. Historically, major policy issues don't happen over night, and while that can be frustrating to some, it's good for the country, because it doesn't cause too much change too quickly.

Of course, the past 20 or so years have been a partisan gridlock out of Machiavellian nightmares. We do need to pass legislation and move the country forward, so we do need to push harder. How that is going to happen with the Senate being so tight is beyond me.

And yeah, the democrats won't be able to push major changes like court expansion or statehood until they gain more Senate seats (and win back some House seats as well).

Moving slow hasn’t been good... a lot of bad seems to happen. Like more bad than good but I May just be focussing in the bad... but there’s so much of it.

[shimerra]

The time table is what it is because of how stupid our system works and how we know we may indeed have a tough midterm

Yeah my point wasn't that there was no time table or that time tables are ridiculous. But if I ask you to design and build the world's largest skycraper in two days and you can't whose fault is it yours for not being able to do it or mine for expecting such a ridiculous ask to be done in the first place? The simple reality is some change takes time and some changes take longer than others. And again what's being done is a fair amount in a pretty short amount of time and you're basically annoyed it isn't more and faster and in some cases things he can't actually do without legislation.

And there's a huge difference between two years and the literal week that you're basically upset that nothing has been done in.........where quite a lot has been done. Voice your concerns. Be loud about it even and don't let the DNC forget you. But if you demand shit like Universal Healthcare be done and ready for you tomorrow, well fuck off with that dumb shit.

[Themius]

Right, and there's a huge difference between two years and the literal week that you're basically upset that nothing has been done in.........where quite a lot has been done.

But that’s when the pressure is highest. At the beginning. It always has been. As the term goes in too frequently pressure goes too. As well as care.

[Edge-]

Moving slow hasn’t been good... a lot of bad seems to happen. Like more bad than good but I May just be focussing in the bad... but there’s so much of it.

And just racing forward on everything is a bad idea too.

It's almost like zero-sum thinking like this is silly. You can move very quickly on some issues, while others may require more time to do it right, even if they're urgent.

The alternative is something like what Trump did - blasting through a ton of EO's that get challenged and overturned quickly, causing further problems, and are easily overturned by another president.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about that irks me. The fantasy that they can just DO EVERYTHING very quickly and it'll just happen and be great. Trump tried that and gave a great preview of how terrible of an idea that is if you actually want your changes to stand up in court to last through your term, and potentially beyond as you build in safeguards to prevent another president from easily overturning it (i.e. what Biden is going for with LGBTQ+ protections right now)

[Themius]

And just racing forward on everything is a bad idea too.

It's almost like zero-sum thinking like this is silly. You can move very quickly on some issues, while others may require more time to do it right, even if they're urgent.

The alternative is something like what Trump did - blasting through a ton of EO's that get challenged and overturned quickly, causing further problems, and are easily overturned by another president.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about that irks me. The fantasy that they can just DO EVERYTHING very quickly and it'll just happen and be great. Trump tried that and gave a great preview of how terrible of an idea that is if you actually want your changes to stand up in court to last through your term, and potentially beyond as you build in safeguards to prevent another president from easily overturning it (i.e. what Biden is going for with LGBTQ+ protections right now)

Moving quickly isn't all about Biden... I am aware he can't do every thing. There needs to be pressure on the democrats in the senate that aligning themselves in the centre and towards the republicans. What biden can do there is call them out... and the idea that it makes the party look split doesn't matter when they're out there saying things opposite of the majority senate leader and the budget chair.

[shimerra]

But that’s when the pressure is highest. At the beginning. It always has been. As the term goes in too frequently pressure goes too. As well as care.

The pressure is actually least high at the beginning typically. At least in terms of pressure that prevents them from enacting change. It's called the Honeymoon period for a reason because newly elected presidents, especially when their party controls congress, enjoy kind of a newly elected hooray new president popularity where they're able to get the most stuff done. As the term goes on they usually lose some of that popularity and it's pretty common for presidents to lose majorities during their term.

But the real problem is you're confusing putting pressure to get things done with having unreasonable demands and expectations about how things can even get done. And again a lot is being done and some of what you want done just isn't practical to have been done in the time you're expecting it to be completed. I go back to my previous skyscraper example: if I ask you to build me the world's largest tower in two days and you don't based on your posts that's 100% your fault for failing and 0% mine for a ridiculous request/expectation.

There is a vast gulf of difference between putting pressure and just having dumb exceptions about potential outcomes.

[Edge-]

Moving quickly isn't all about Biden... I am aware he can't do every thing. There needs to be pressure on the democrats in the senate that aligning themselves in the centre and towards the republicans. What biden can do there is call them out... and the idea that it makes the party look split doesn't matter when they're out there saying things opposite of the majority senate leader and the budget chair.

I mean...go for it. Start going after Manchin and Sinema and pressuring them, they won't give a fuck if you don't live in their state because they don't answer to you. Biden calling them out isn't going to pressure them, if anything it'll boost their popularity at home because now they're showing that they're standing up for their constituents and not just towing the party line. It also limits the pressure that can be put on them for other votes if Biden goes hard right out of the gate.

[Themius]

I mean...go for it. Start going after Manchin and Sinema and pressuring them, they won't give a fuck if you don't live in their state because they don't answer to you. Biden calling them out isn't going to pressure them, if anything it'll boost their popularity at home because now they're showing that they're standing up for their constituents and not just towing the party line. It also limits the pressure that can be put on them for other votes if Biden goes hard right out of the gate.

Mm so what's the ideal way to solve that little issue? Just ignore it I guess.. I mean no need to pressure them or anything... not like public pressure may get them to change their minds like when Manchin came out against the $2k before being hit with a huge amount of backlash and then recanted...

It almost seems like putting pressure on them by airing what they're doing and how it affects their own constituents may have an effect on them....

[cubby]

Moving slow hasn’t been good... a lot of bad seems to happen. Like more bad than good but I May just be focussing in the bad... but there’s so much of it.

The last four years, and frankly the entire Time of McConnell, have been glacial periods in legislation - and it's hard to remember when Congress actually worked together to pass good laws for the country.

I agree with you - a lot of bad has happened. The good news, outside of the Judges and the Tax Break for the Rich, is that Biden can roll back most of it through EO's. Which he's doing right now. But yeah, there is so much of it. And yeah, there sure is a LOT of it.

[Edge-]

Mm so what's the ideal way to solve that little issue? Just ignore it I guess.. I mean no need to pressure them or anything... not like public pressure may get them to change their minds like when Manchin came out against the $2k before being hit with a huge amount of backlash and then recanted...

I mean you can always try. But do understand that Senators and Reps. will generally prioritize the views of their constituents rather than those outside their states/districts.

This is Democracy, mein duden. It's messy, sometimes. You don't get what you want, sometimes.

It almost seems like putting pressure on them by airing what they're doing and how it affects their own constituents may have an effect on them....

Then try to change the minds of their constituents, that's the best way.

[Shadowferal]

Goddammit...Biden should have already conquered world hunger, cured cancer, and world poverty...he had almost week, that's plenty of time.
...slacker.

[Benggaul]

Nothing about the position requirements speaks to requiring or even preferring a civilian over former military.

10 U.S. Code § 113 - Secretary of Defense

(a)There is a Secretary of Defense, who is the head of the Department of Defense, appointed from civilian life by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. A person may not be appointed as Secretary of Defense within seven years after relief from active duty as a commissioned officer of a regular component of an armed force.

Further, this is an old article, but still raises the relevant points:

Why Congress Mandates Civilians Lead the Military

“The provision is a law because of America’s nervousness of giving the military too much power,” said Charles Stevenson, a professor at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies.

“There is a concern that someone who has been a general all their adult lives doesn’t really understand civilian life,” Stevens added. “The secretary of defense has to deal with domestic businesses, has to recruit people from the civilian job sector. If he is just used to commanding he might not be used to commanding civilian society.”

[Felya]

Goddammit...Biden should have already conquered world hunger, cured cancer, and world poverty...he had almost week, that's plenty of time.
...slacker.

Which just shows the superior patience of Trump supporters... they are still anxiously waiting for Hillary to be in jail... check mate liberals...

[Themius]

I mean you can always try. But do understand that Senators and Reps. will generally prioritize the views of their constituents rather than those outside their states/districts.

This is Democracy, mein duden. It's messy, sometimes. You don't get what you want, sometimes.



Then try to change the minds of their constituents, that's the best way.

The pressure is in the form of persuading their constituents.

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Goddammit...Biden should have already conquered world hunger, cured cancer, and world poverty...he had almost week, that's plenty of time.
...slacker.

World hunger is easy enough to solve. Wasn’t there a study or two showing it would cost some 100bn a year to implement?

[beanman12345]

Goddammit...Biden should have already conquered world hunger, cured cancer, and world poverty...he had almost week, that's plenty of time.
...slacker.

I thinks someone should just try to run for president themselves, they have all the answers.