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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    As far as I know, the Blood Oath is to the Horde, not the Warchief. Namely the Orcs. Possibly the Trolls.
    Also, isn’t the Blood Oath only sworn between the Tauren and the Horde since the Horde (Orcs and trolls at the time) came to the aide and defense of the Tauren and kept them from being wiped out by the Quillboar?

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_Oath_of_the_Horde

    "Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

    From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!"

    It is to both, but the second part may have been the part abolished if indeed they will still use it, in any case I don't think you could force anyone who didn't want to to swear that. Besides, if it's forced, they don't even have to abide by it, they escape and the oath won't matter in any case and you'll never see that person help you again. And if you know, you want to use that oath to make someone do something for you that requires them to say.. be a spy? If they're being forced they'll just turn "traitor" immediately the moment they get into enemy territory.
    Though... in the BfA campaign, they turn a few Kul Tirans into zombies who are then rejected by their living family, and then for some reason the newly monsterfied decide to fight against their own kin with the ones who killed them, but that's a different barrel of vomit-writing.

    In regards to the topic Valeera has nothing the Horde can even hold against her, no family or anything like that. There's no magic behind the words afterall so it's a moot point really.

  2. #62
    Dreadlord Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    I don't have an issue towards Calia in a general sense. I do have an issue with her potentially being shoe horned in as a Forsaken leader, and I have an issue with her being "an advisor" in any capacity. She was never a leader, when the Scourge war kicked off she ran away to be a priest. She really has no wisdom and her claim to leadership is through bloodline which is almost antithetical to the Horde.

    A defining characteristic of being Forsaken is casting off the old, the Forsaken fought for their home, defended from humans who claimed it as their own even though the Forsaken literally died for it.

    Calia as some kind of leader is really a slap in the face. She shouldn't be on top of the Keep, she should be on the ground actually working and bleeding for the people that she is suddenly being put over as a possible heir-apparent and authority figure.
    Shoehorned in.. Ya let's just gloss over the fact that Calia Menethil probably has more standing with the Forsaken people than Sylvannas ever did. They were her subjects before the Scourge hit. Sylvannas just uses them as pawns.

  3. #63
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordheim View Post
    I feel like both of these are good.. cant decide!
    It's ok in two expacs blizz will villanize the horde again and it will be reset.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  4. #64
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    It's ok in two expacs blizz will villanize the horde again and it will be reset.
    Yay! I can't wait to be portrayed as a lItErAl NaZi for choosing my faction again!



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  5. #65
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    So I just watched this video clip and I see a lot of people complaining about Calia being in Orgrimmar and I can agree with the sentiment that she is not worthy to lead the Forsaken. No doubt she is a light abomination.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bgduIXYEVE

    Solution: Calia should be thrown from the roof of Grommash Hold as she doesn't belong on the Horde and Valeera should be forced to take the Blood Oath and become a Horde member.

    And finally we can rest easy knowing that Calia will no longer be alive to try to take the throne of the Forsaken and make her illegitimated claim in the Horde where she doesn't belong.
    "I don't like this thing so this thing that is never, ever going to happen should happen to make the thing into something I like"

    Like what's the point of this topic? Besides looking for validation?
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    You are correct, also why the heck is a light abomination even in Orgrimmar. If I were Horde, I would have lost my appetite seeing that thing there. Especially on top of Grommash Hold? Boy if Garrosh was still around, she'd be thrown from the ramparts.
    To be fair if Garrosh were around, unless you were an Orc, you wouldn’t be in Orgrimmar :P

  7. #67
    They really took the worst route they possibly could with her.

    Alliance players wanted a living Calia to represent the still-living citizens of Lordaeron who fled to Stormwind and the other Alliance nations when the kingdom was overrun by the Scourge.

    Horde wanted an undead Calia who fell with their Kingdom and was raised as one of the Forsaken.

    Had they picked one or the other they probably could have pleased at least a few people. Instead, Horde players hate her for being an outsider with a strong Alliance association, and Alliance players hate her for caring about the Forsaken over Alliance citizens. And nobody likes the whole Light Undead thing.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    I much rather see more characters like her than the same old being rehashed and reused, we need more shades of gray into WoW's rather at times bland factions, less of a clear distinction between "good and evil" factions the better for a world like this. It is actually due to such writing previously that they are now forced to inject the story with these kind of characters.
    MMO story telling is sadly slow and fragmented over several mediums especially warcraft's so we'll see what happens, hopefully not too many resurrections happen during shadowlands and more actual closures with a few redemption stories here and there.

    Calia is also not presented as a leader of the undead, she is merely an advisor for the horde at this point. Just as how "evil sylvanas" was a poor choice i find calia just as terrible on the other end of the spectrum, there has to be some sort of ruthless figure with redeemable characteristics that can lead them, which currently does not exist.
    Thank you. It's funny to me how people complain about one dimensional characters and their predictable storylines but become confused or upset when the writers attempt at doing just that, such as this case with Calia.

    Anyone with a nuanced perspective of the story can see the narrative potential of a character like Calia being in the fold. Furthermore, anyone who doesn't see how her presence will create contention within the Forsaken, implicate the Scarlet Crusade and in other ways potentially be a great addition to the story, lacks that nuanced perspective.
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  9. #69
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Also she has absolutely no ties to the Horde or the identity of the Forsaken.
    I mean, apart from being the princess of Lordaeron and arguably their rightful queen.

    I'm not a big fan of "compassionate undead" as a direction for their race, and her becoming undead is convenient writing at best, but to act like none of the Forsaken would show allegiance to Terenas Menethil's heir is a little silly.

    I certainly think her story could have been handled better. A more Aragorn-esque "rightful queen returns to lead her people" amidst the rebellion against Sylvanas, urged on by Voss, would have been interesting. Reclaiming the plagued ruins of Lordaeron from Sylvanas loyalists by force, say.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    I see a lot of people complaining
    I'm guessing by "a lot of people" you mean yourself and your friends, am I right?

    Because I can pretty much assure you that most people really don't care.
    If you reply to me with a full essay I'm probably not going to bother reading it, sorry.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valandale View Post
    What does Valeera even have to do with the Horde beyond being a fel-exposed High Elf? She was enslaved as a Gladiator by the Horde, Thrall's Horde by the way. She also isn't even a part of the Alliance. She's Khadgar tier levels of neutral with loyalty towards the Wrynn family. If you tried to force her to join either faction she'd probably just gank whoever was pushing for that and just leave. She serves as a line of diplomacy between both sides.
    You really can’t be khadgar levels of neutral when you work directly for the alliance king as a spy, she’s alliance through and through always has been.

  12. #72
    Mechagnome Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    So I just watched this video clip and I see a lot of people complaining about Calia being in Orgrimmar and I can agree with the sentiment that she is not worthy to lead the Forsaken. No doubt she is a light abomination.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bgduIXYEVE

    Solution: Calia should be thrown from the roof of Grommash Hold as she doesn't belong on the Horde and Valeera should be forced to take the Blood Oath and become a Horde member.

    And finally we can rest easy knowing that Calia will no longer be alive to try to take the throne of the Forsaken and make her illegitimated claim in the Horde where she doesn't belong.
    Is this RP hate or real salt?

    The Holy Light is not an inherently good or evil force. It is primal and can be used to help or harm in equal measure. With what we saw from Xe'ra's imperious nature before her demise, Y'rel's zealots and the atrocities they've committed on AU Draenor, the resurgence of the Scarlet Crusade and now, like you said yourself an abomination of the Light in the undead Calia, if you can't see what's on the horizon, that the forces of the Holy Light are going to be the next big bad guy and create issues for all Azerothians, you seriously lack perspective. Calia Menethil will lead the Forsaken, but not for long. She is going to be an antagonist, I assure you. Her presence is the perfect time for the Church (not Cult, to me) of the Forgotten Shadow to finally make themselves heard.
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  13. #73
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Yay! I can't wait to be portrayed as a lItErAl NaZi for choosing my faction again!



    Seriously, I might skip the next fAcTiOn WaR expansion.
    How dare you! Danuser put alot of nuance and effort into writing world of Warcraft: chronicles of the ultimate simp
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  14. #74
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    Call me crazy but I think that Valeera has already been working as a shadow broker to Lor'themar for a long time...Time will tell but that's my theory. Anyhow, the Horde has the capability of forcing her to take the Blood Oath, whether it be persuasion or other means.
    She has never worked with lor’rhemar in any regard and getting a spy to swear any kind of oath would be pointless and you know they can lie.

  15. #75
    is this another thread [the thing that never happened] is obvious/understandable/etc?

    Does OP misunderstood "a lot" with the "a bunch"?

  16. #76
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    Pretty sure if Calia was an identical character except they were a growly-voiced dude called Calian and looked like an sort of Light-undead Varian Wyrnn, and maybe had a "kewl light katana" or something, this thread wouldn't have been posted.

    The issue isn't what the OP or others are pretending. The issue is that Calia isn't macho and badass, but she's on the Horde, so it's time for the three-minute hate.
    "A youtuber said so."

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  17. #77
    Scarab Lord gaymer77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    I thought Voss was the acting leader of the Forsaken.
    It was reconned in BFA when Voss asked her to help lead the Forsaken after Sylvanas took off. Calia agreed to do it as an advisory type position. I screamed at my computer when I saw that happen. Pissed me off to no ends. I'm a Sylvanas fan true and true but if she's not leading the Forsaken I think Voss is the next best thing for them to have as a leader and her character & story needs to be developed more.

    Quote Originally Posted by hllfrmththrsd View Post
    What hate? Where do you get this idea that people hate her from? Don't speculate.
    Its not speculation. Its a known fact that the majority of the Horde and specifically Forsaken players hate Calia and don't think she should even be part of the Horde or Forsaken at all. Calia is seen as Blizzard trying to "good up" the Forsaken and change everything that we have grown to love about the race for years now.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    So I just watched this video clip and I see a lot of people complaining about Calia being in Orgrimmar and I can agree with the sentiment that she is not worthy to lead the Forsaken. No doubt she is a light abomination.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bgduIXYEVE

    Solution: Calia should be thrown from the roof of Grommash Hold as she doesn't belong on the Horde and Valeera should be forced to take the Blood Oath and become a Horde member.

    And finally we can rest easy knowing that Calia will no longer be alive to try to take the throne of the Forsaken and make her illegitimated claim in the Horde where she doesn't belong.
    I will never get the hate. She was never part of the alliance, really. Both factions have characters who are more partial to the other. Anduin and Baine. Pandaren leader. Whatever their names are. Velen and Thrall. And the ones who walk both sides. Valeera. A blood elfe. And Calia. An ex-human.

    If you kick out calia you have to kick out EVERY forsaken. They are all human. Players and nearly every NPC forsaken. She just got called into undeath another way.

    I don't get why people have such a boner for the whole "everyone has to hate everyone from the other faction" narrative. It is just not... realistic? She was human. Tried to bridge the gap, failed and is now undead. She has a huge name. By that connections. Of course she is not just a nobody doing nothing.

    We still have faction leaders who hate the other side. Genn. The only reason that he did not start a total war is because he and his people do not have the means by themselves. Lotthrema, he does not like the alliance by any means specially Jaina. Rokhan. Kind of an classic faction leader. Has no real character and stands for the horde and does not like the alliance as he has no connections with them.

    Calia gives something to the leaders we never had before. Someone who switched sides out of necessity. She will never be completly accepted by the humans of the alliance. She will have to deal with the annimosty of the horde because she has been a human not that long ago. But she chose to be with the forsken because they have been HER PEOPLE. So she wants to help them. And in turn make amends for what her brother did.
    It seems everyone just wants onedimensional I HATE THE OTHER SIDE characters... heavens that would be boring...

    Edit: And no. Calia is not leading the forsaken. probably never will. But it would be stupid to cast her aside given her connection to the forskaen themselves and from a diplomatic standpoint to the alliance.

    Edit2: Also why the hell are only faction leaders allowed to have story. Claia is not. She gets story. DOesnt mean she is a new leader. Voss got story and seems like she is the reluctand leader of them. She does not like it. If she would it would be a huge retcon to her character.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    It was reconned in BFA when Voss asked her to help lead the Forsaken after Sylvanas took off. Calia agreed to do it as an advisory type position. I screamed at my computer when I saw that happen. Pissed me off to no ends. I'm a Sylvanas fan true and true but if she's not leading the Forsaken I think Voss is the next best thing for them to have as a leader and her character & story needs to be developed more.



    Its not speculation. Its a known fact that the majority of the Horde and specifically Forsaken players hate Calia and don't think she should even be part of the Horde or Forsaken at all. Calia is seen as Blizzard trying to "good up" the Forsaken and change everything that we have grown to love about the race for years now.
    Calia is not the leader and you don't know for a fact anything.
    Last edited by VinceVega; 2020-11-21 at 09:54 PM.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    I mean, apart from being the princess of Lordaeron and arguably their rightful queen.

    I'm not a big fan of "compassionate undead" as a direction for their race, and her becoming undead is convenient writing at best, but to act like none of the Forsaken would show allegiance to Terenas Menethil's heir is a little silly.

    I certainly think her story could have been handled better. A more Aragorn-esque "rightful queen returns to lead her people" amidst the rebellion against Sylvanas, urged on by Voss, would have been interesting. Reclaiming the plagued ruins of Lordaeron from Sylvanas loyalists by force, say.
    Where exactly do Forsaken embrace the identity of Lordaeron? The actual remnants of Lordaeron and their living relatives wanted to kill them for the longest time. The whole point of the Forsaken is that they forge a new identity through shared suffering. It's what makes them strong and interesting.

  20. #80
    Scarab Lord gaymer77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Calia is not the leader and you don't know for a fact anything.
    Care to point out where I stated she was the leader of the Forsaken? I was very clear in what I said about Voss & Calia and it is factually correct.

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