Shadowlands Sylvanas and Anduin cinematic.

[Kithelle]

Are you new to stories by chance?, some ''villains'' consider themselves the good guys. Also, the cinematic is literally called no more lies.

Cope.

And? The theme of BFA was morally grey and it was anything but that....deal with it that your waifu isn't the hero you wish she was

[Minikin]

https://youtu.be/Ynmd_qFp5hY

Well... this is it boys? She is confirmed “secretly a good guy all along” and we can now skip the unnecessary parts between the launch of SL and its final patch and go play something else?
What really bothers me personally is how after all the ridiculously evil and “moustache twirling” things horde did in BfA they basically were forgiven and pushed all the blame on Sylvanas. All of it. You cant even hate horde now (talking from META perspective) without being totally in the wrong and evil vengeful maniac because it “werent them! It was all evil sylvanas! They are innocent, how can you even...!”
But then if Sylvanas also a hero that will fix the unfair afterlife somehow and yadda yadda... Then who’s fault is it? Who is to blame for all that evil? Or it just gets absolved and evaporates on a wind? I am struggling to understand the “message” Blizz sending our way. And message it is because they ALWAYS cramming “moral messages” into their narrative nowdays.

Holy shit about time! Finally some actual answers or something!

I literally yelled out when he said in tried of your Games and she finally started to explain herself

[Super Dickmann]

@BaumanKing

Anduin was actually a good pick for this because Sylvanas's argument'd only be considered by someone with a big picture view of things who wants to sort everything and save everyone. Someone less childish, with actual world experience would cut her off and point out that she still had to burn kids to get where she is and the fact that not everything turns out good is just how life is so her justifications are horse shit. Ditto because her plan about free will requires abrogating everyone's free will and suffering so that she can get her plan through, a plan with zero guarantee to work based on the good will of blue Satan.

Virtually anyone else, if they were in character, would just flat out refuse and laugh her out of the room. Anduin though is an idealist and an argument that things are fundamentally and irreparably unjust is something he'd be amenable to and while his doing so was much more benign, he also chews himself up about how he decides for other people and that gets them hurt. Presumably why Sylvanas wants him on side in the first place.

I don't expect anything to come of this since he's pretty much a static character, but Shadows Rising generated enough good will with him for me and the rest of the captured characters are such deadends that I'll take what I can get.

[Shampro]

And? The theme of BFA was morally grey and it was anything but that....deal with it that your waifu isn't the hero you wish she was

Lmao literally no argument. Nothing just ''waifu'' bs nothing at all. Cope. Just cope.

[owbu]

Until written otherwise, this is just Blizzard finnaley doing their job and giving Sylvanas some motivation instead of relying on undeserved unexplained shock moments to drive the plot forward. It's not shadowlands fault that BFA Sylvanas was a terribly written plot device.

...if 9.3 DOES go the plottwist good all along road, I will of course agree with you that thats terrible.

[VladlTutushkin]

Oh, no, he's still a bore and I'm not looking forward to bailing him out but I'm just glad that rather than having him go "Hmmm", they had him point out what any player in that scene would bring up, namely that that's all well and good for talk, but she still allied with blue Satan and everything around her is comically evil.

When it comes to Denathrius and company I agree and disagree, since while them siding with the Jailor (ditto the Forsworn) is a culmination of the issue and let us kill them, this is only the point where they cross the line. The Forsworn are a reaction to how Bastion usually works, ditto Denathrius was able to LARP as a Count for eons before he crossed the line by teaming up openly with the Jailor. Had the way not been opened, nothing would change and these places would still remain fucked. There's no internal mechanism to prevent the realms from being run like fiefdoms by their individual leaders. This is what I figure the point is - what we do in the individual realms to fix them up being a better alternative to tearing everything down and letting Satan take the reins, but the problems still being something that the narrative acknowledges.

Well, yes. But so far we know that Forsworn became an issue when souls that were not in need of “memory wipe” began to pour into Bastion. Basically they began throwing bones into a meatgrinder and it obviously broke down. Arbiter supposed to watch over it and funnel souls into specific realms or even creating entire new realms for special cases (as we learned from an interview) but she/it got shut down and put inti a coma so now souls being either thrown into the Maw or as it happened with Forsworn put into the wrong place. For example Mograine (or whoever that DK was) was specifically put into Maldraxus because his memories were his strength, not weakness despite them causing him pain. So Bastion gal explains that to him and says that this is how things go - you dont go to Bastion if you are not a Bastion material. But now every single righteous Joe goes there. Winter Queen so far seems very decent ruler who however had to use rationing to save the whole realm because they have no anima flow anymore. And Denathrius... Well, he was kinda not dangerous as long as he had enough to drink and his realm had enough to sip? He however indeed became corrupt , likely before the Jailer but thats like one out of four leaders. Because Maldraxus Big Guy was also decent but got taken down by Kel’thuzad.

- - - Updated - - -

This will make more sense if one of the reasons would be saving the forsaken from eternal damnation. In that sense, she can say my people suffered as undead and this system condemned in the afterlife.

Wrong - devs told in a recent interview that Arbiter reviews your WHOLE existence. Life, undeath, whatever else there might be. And being undead has no effect on your Afterlife when you died again.

[Makorus]

I wonder what the "We can't even choose who we..." line means.

[Feanoro]

So four minutes of posturing and terrible dialogue that reveals sweet fuck all, and confirms the writing is aimed at early teens. "Things aren't fair, we're going to fix it! ...somehow. The writers haven't actually thought out HOW yet, so this is just to buy them time."

[KainneAbsolute]

Wrong - devs told in a recent interview that Arbiter reviews your WHOLE existence. Life, undeath, whatever else there might be. And being undead has no effect on your Afterlife when you died again.

That's why I said it would make more sense. If they kept the forsaken as damned, Sylvanas would have another reason and an additional way to prove her point.

[Alanar]

I wonder what the "We can't even choose who we..." line means.

Same..

/10chars

[bagina]

I wonder what the "We can't even choose who we..." line means.

...serve? ...love? ...become? I'm curious too.

As for the cinematic, oh my. Still not crazy about Sylvanas' new outfit but her facial model and expressions are perfect.

Sylvanas put into few words what has been obvious for several months now. No really, nothing she said was new or surprising (maybe except for that "we can't choose who we..." line), anyone with some lore knowledge had already figured that out. I mean her final line in Shadows Rising says as much. I'm almost disappointed we didn't get more, actually.

While I understand this whole exchange exists solely for player's sake, it's still rather amusing she'd try to talk it out with Andy at this point in time. Really, the whole thing felt surreal! Anduin acting as mouthpiece for the playerbase and Sylvanas explaining herself. Why even try to justify yourself to him? I feel like she'd know better lol

[rogueMatthias]

All I'm hearing from Sylvanas is "Lifes not fair! WAAAHHHHHHHH!!!"

Stop trying to bring the whole world down, just because you're still bitter that Arthas beat you.

[username993720]

I knew it. she didn't want to be judged and be sent to the Maw, like last time, when she thrown herself off of Icecrown Citadel. That's why she breaks the "cycle". To let her choose, and others as well.

[Saltysquidoon]

"I thought you believed in free will, Slyvanas."

What?

[Ophenia]

While I understand this whole exchange exists solely for player's sake, it's still rather amusing she'd try to talk it out with Andy at this point in time. Really, the whole thing felt surreal! Anduin acting as mouthpiece for the playerbase and Sylvanas explaining herself. Why even try to justify yourself to him? I feel like she'd know better lol

Well, even if you're a psychopathic genocidal maniac, you still want to ease your plan. It's better having Anduin willingly on your side than used as an unwilling weapon, who will be prone to switch side when he'll have to opportunity. If the plan somehow involves having Jailer empowering Anduin to use Light power for whatever, it's obvious you'd want to ensure Anduin won't turn around.

Also have this weird feeling that Sylvanas still have some respect for Anduin, as was hinted during BfA cinematic (little smile). This "Little Lion" tone sounded a bit too much like a "my friend" to my ears, even though the writers probably meant for her to say that sarcastically ?

On the other hand, I'm completely afraid of the "We can't even choose who we..." line. I really, really hope it's not something linked to Nathanos. But somehow she feels angry at something that she might be "destined" to, and that may have been the point she decided to go full WTF.

[bagina]

On the other hand, I'm completely afraid of the "We can't even choose who we..." line. I really, really hope it's not something linked to Nathanos. But somehow she feels angry at something that she might be "destined" to, and that may have been the point she decided to go full WTF.

Same. Anything but that please. It was the most intriguing moment of the cinematic for sure. What's with that expression? Why did she stop herself? Something Anduin wasn't supposed to know? Was she afraid they were being eavsdropped on? Who knows.

[Newname1234567890]

Oh wow that deep and meaningful motivation. "If everyone is a zombie everyone will be free".

Is she ingoring that the jailer is LITERALLY torturing innocent people to turn them into monsters to join his army?

So yeah that really rings true of giving people true free will and not arbitrary punishing them for lives they could not control.....

[Broken Fox]

wow that cinematic was actually good and i don't hate anduin for once. i'm not getting my hopes up for some great story, it's still gonna be some saturday morning cartoon shit, but at least i'm intrigued.

[Ophenia]

Same. Anything but that please. It was the most intriguing moment of the cinematic for sure. What's with that expression? Why did she stop herself? Something Anduin wasn't supposed to know? Was she afraid they were being eavsdropped on? Who knows.

I felt it was someting emotional. Like she got carried away during her monologue explaining why everything is unfair, to the point she got emotional and was about to tell something that Anduin, nobody in fact, is supposed to know. I'd guess a weakness, something she had hoped but which is finally impossible. We know that she is driven by emotions, most of her recent "feats" are. Teldrassil (I'm still not so sure about that, but for the community it is), her "The Horde is nothing",...

That's why I'm really afraid this was going to be about Nathanos and the fact his "body" is now dead and can't be revived so she won't have her happily ever after That'd be vomiting rofl.

[Newname1234567890]

"I thought you believed in free will, Slyvanas."

What?

The Forsaken, before cataclysm atleast, were very big on Free will after escaping the Lich Kings domination.