Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[Omega10]

Sounds to me that you are thinking the US should start negotiating with/giving into terrorists?

Are you referring to Manchin and Silema? I don't consider them terrorists.

If you are referring to McConnell and the Senate republicans, well the problem is even if they are viewed as terrorists, we don't have the power to just over rule them. So in that sense it COULD be argued that we are negotiating with terrorists.

If you are referring to the 74 million people that voted for Trump, well they have not gone away. Hopefully we'll outnumber them by enough that we CAN just overrule them soon. They have done so much damage to our country. But I DO think that when we put forth proposals to help Americans, that Trump supporters get the same support that non-Trump supporters get.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

[Edge-]

https://wtop.com/government/2021/02/...roles-in-riot/

Six US Capitol Police officers have been suspended with pay, and 29 others have been placed under investigation, for their actions in the January 6 riot, a department spokesman said Thursday.

“Acting Chief Yogananda Pittman has directed that any member of her department whose behavior is not in keeping with the Department’s Rules of Conduct will face appropriate discipline,” department spokesman John Stolnis told CNN.

CNN reported in January that the USCP had placed at least 10 officers under investigation, and two others had been suspended.

One of the suspended officers took a selfie with someone who was part of the mob that overtook the Capitol, according to Rep. Tim Ryan, a Democrat from Ohio. Another wore a “Make America Great Again” hat and started directing people around the building, Ryan said.

Eyyyy, they might start weeding out the white supremacist and insurrectionist apologist fucks. This is some good news, and hopefully will mean that the officers of color aren't dealing with abusive white supremacist coworkers on a daily basis.

[Zeth Hawkins]

Oh, you think that since none of them have been charged yet for that attempted coup, means they didn't try? WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?

You seem to be in the business of reading minds. Quick, what number am I thinking of!

[postman1782]

You seem to be in the business of reading minds. Quick, what number am I thinking of!

Doesn't matter, with you changing definitions of words, you would likely try to change everything to suit your needs like you have been doing for the last day.

[Zeth Hawkins]

Doesn't matter, with you changing definitions of words, you would likely try to change everything to suit your needs like you have been doing for the last day.

Ah yes, the tried and true "no u" tactic. A bold strategy.

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That is Sedition.

I could google it for you, if you like.

[szechuan]

Ah yes, the tried and true "no u" tactic. A bold strategy.

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I could google it for you, if you like.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...acks-last-year

[Felya]

I could google it for you, if you like.

They replaced an American flag over the capital, with a Trump flag.

[Endus]

I could google it for you, if you like.

Like where you tried to argue that seditious conspiracy was somehow magically not sedition?

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...edition=prelim

§2384. Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to

overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States,
or to levy war against them,
or to oppose by force the authority thereof,
or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States,
or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof,

they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

I broke it up for you to make it more clear. "Seditious conspiracy" is sedition. It's in the adjective "Seditious". And to engage in that crime, two or more people need to conspire to engage in any one of those five possible actions. Note that actually engaging in said action necessarily demonstrates such conspiring.

Every single person who pushed into the Capitol on January 6th as part of that mob engaged in at least one of the last three entries, at a bare minimum the fourth of the five. It doesn't matter if they personally used that force, all that matters is that they were part of the group who conspired to use said force.

They breach the third and definitely the fourth because they were trying to prevent/overturn an election proceeding, which is an attempt to oppose the authority of the US government.
They breach the fifth because a lot of people stole stuff while inside.

This isn't complicated. Stop acting like seditious conspiracy isn't sedition.

[pathora44]

They replaced an American flag over the capital, with a Trump flag.

Don't forget setting up a gallows in front of the Capitol building and having zip tie handcuffs. But no the people who broke into the Capitol building weren't violent, looking to capture our highest government officials, and try to change the results of the election to place Trump as G̶o̶d̶ ̶E̶m̶p̶e̶r̶o̶r̶ I mean President. Nope they were just going to peacefully but in a strong non combative tone tell the two houses of Congress that they disagreed with the election results.

[Verdugo]

You seem to be in the business of reading minds. Quick, what number am I thinking of!

1488 is my guess.

[Dontrike]

I could google it for you, if you like.

What would you call it then? What would you call a group (including congressman) that says they are listening to a voted out president that is looking to kidnap/kill specific people, that just so happen to be Trump's "enemies", while trying to change the result of an election in which they feel they lost. Hm? What would that be? Terrorist attack? Coup? Sedition?

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1488 is my guess.

Nah, 45 .

[postman1782]

What would you call it then? What would you call a group (including congressman) that says they are listening to a voted out president that is looking to kidnap/kill specific people, that just so happen to be Trump's "enemies", while trying to change the result of an election in which they feel they lost. Hm? What would that be? Terrorist attack? Coup? Sedition?

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Nah, 45 .

I think you missed the joke, as 1488 is another thing Nazis love, they 14 words about saving their "white heritage", and 88 is for HH or Heil Hitler.

[Edge-]

https://theintercept.com/2021/02/22/...phone-records/

WITHIN HOURS OF the storming of the Capitol on January 6, the FBI began securing thousands of phone and electronic records connected to people at the scene of the rioting — including some related to members of Congress, raising potentially thorny legal questions.

Using special emergency powers and other measures, the FBI has collected reams of private cellphone data and communications that go beyond the videos that rioters shared widely on social media, according to two sources with knowledge of the collection effort.

In the hours and days after the Capitol riot, the FBI relied in some cases on emergency orders that do not require court authorization in order to quickly secure actual communications from people who were identified at the crime scene. Investigators have also relied on data “dumps” from cellphone towers in the area to provide a map of who was there, allowing them to trace call records — but not content — from the phones.

Congress cell records are part of the investigation.

[cubby]

Like where you tried to argue that seditious conspiracy was somehow magically not sedition?

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...edition=prelim

§2384. Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to

overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States,
or to levy war against them,
or to oppose by force the authority thereof,
or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States,
or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof,

they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

I broke it up for you to make it more clear. "Seditious conspiracy" is sedition. It's in the adjective "Seditious". And to engage in that crime, two or more people need to conspire to engage in any one of those five possible actions. Note that actually engaging in said action necessarily demonstrates such conspiring.

Every single person who pushed into the Capitol on January 6th as part of that mob engaged in at least one of the last three entries, at a bare minimum the fourth of the five. It doesn't matter if they personally used that force, all that matters is that they were part of the group who conspired to use said force.

They breach the third and definitely the fourth because they were trying to prevent/overturn an election proceeding, which is an attempt to oppose the authority of the US government.
They breach the fifth because a lot of people stole stuff while inside.

This isn't complicated. Stop acting like seditious conspiracy isn't sedition.

Democrats are now quietly bringing back up a bill that would bar Trump from ever running for office again. Using the 14th Amendment and the sub-clause barring anyone participating in an insurrection from holding public office at the national level.

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https://theintercept.com/2021/02/22/...phone-records/

WITHIN HOURS OF the storming of the Capitol on January 6, the FBI began securing thousands of phone and electronic records connected to people at the scene of the rioting — including some related to members of Congress, raising potentially thorny legal questions.

Using special emergency powers and other measures, the FBI has collected reams of private cellphone data and communications that go beyond the videos that rioters shared widely on social media, according to two sources with knowledge of the collection effort.

In the hours and days after the Capitol riot, the FBI relied in some cases on emergency orders that do not require court authorization in order to quickly secure actual communications from people who were identified at the crime scene. Investigators have also relied on data “dumps” from cellphone towers in the area to provide a map of who was there, allowing them to trace call records — but not content — from the phones.

Congress cell records are part of the investigation.

Garland is going to ride roughshod through those people, including Members of Congress, and Pelosi has the balls to kick them out of the House if there enough evidence. Should be a VERY interesting next couple of years.

[DarkTZeratul]

Congress cell records are part of the investigation.

This strikes me as neither surprising nor particularly noteworthy on the face of it. Given that it happened at the Capitol while Congress was in session, of course they have cell phone data from Congressmen in their data dump. The real question is if it's actually relevant or meaningful in any way.

[cubby]

This strikes me as neither surprising nor particularly noteworthy on the face of it. Given that it happened at the Capitol while Congress was in session, of course they have cell phone data from Congressmen in their data dump. The real question is if it's actually relevant or meaningful in any way.

We already know that some Members of Congress gave "tours" to Insurrectionists prior to Jan 6, so those records of the day will be VERY interesting. Something to note for everyone, recall that House Member's "panic" buttons had been disabled just prior to the Insurrection, when just a month ago they had been regularly tested.

[DarkTZeratul]

We already know that some Members of Congress gave "tours" to Insurrectionists prior to Jan 6, so those records of the day will be VERY interesting. Something to note for everyone, recall that House Member's "panic" buttons had been disabled just prior to the Insurrection, when just a month ago they had been regularly tested.

Oh sure, I definitely expect some damning evidence to come to light during this investigation. I just don't see "there was congressional cell data in the dump" to be particularly meaningful in and of itself.

[Lenonis]

Democrats are now quietly bringing back up a bill that would bar Trump from ever running for office again.

I don't think this is a good move. Democrats unilaterally barring someone from the other party from running would just be ammo for the GOP in 2022.

IMO -- let Trump run again and split the GOP. He'll be old as balls and suffer from the "no one likes to vote for a loser" problem in politics. The political calculation I see is the risk of Trump getting re-elected is lower than the damage the Dems will suffer for barring him. Plus nothing would stop the GOP from revoking that in 2022 if they take back Congress.

[cubby]

I don't think this is a good move. Democrats unilaterally barring someone from the other party from running would just be ammo for the GOP in 2022.

IMO -- let Trump run again and split the GOP. He'll be old as balls and suffer from the "no one likes to vote for a loser" problem in politics. The political calculation I see is the risk of Trump getting re-elected is lower than the damage the Dems will suffer for barring him. Plus nothing would stop the GOP from revoking that in 2022 if they take back Congress.

I'm having trouble disagreeing with anything you've said above. Especially the point about how banning Trump would just be ammo for the GOP, whereas if the Democrats just left it alone, Trump's idiocy and ego would split the GOP and give the Democrats a possible boost in 2024.

[Lenonis]

I'm having trouble disagreeing with anything you've said above. Especially the point about how banning Trump would just be ammo for the GOP, whereas if the Democrats just left it alone, Trump's idiocy and ego would split the GOP and give the Democrats a possible boost in 2024.

Trump is at high risk of being made a martyr. IMO - let the persecution come from the justice department and courts. It'll be a lot harder to claim evil democrats attacking Trump (although they still will) if a variety of judges (including Trump appointees) declare him guilty. We all know the charges are coming whether they be financial crimes, civil fallout from his presidency, or something yet to be uncovered.

The democratic faction of Congress taking action makes him an instant martyr and no amount of Romney votes is going to make it any less partisan in the eyes of right wing voters.

Trump took a massive hit to his approval after the riots. Let hindsight do it's work eroding his power until he's just a cult leader and nothing more.

And then we can all come back and gloat when he's in prison....if that happens.