Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[Kathranis]

Still its important to understand why they are doing what they are doing.

We understand why they are doing it: they lack information literacy and can't differentiate between truth and lies. They reject evidence in favor of conspiracies.

Deprogramming so many people is likely not even something that can be feasibly accomplished. They have become inherently distrustful of the media and anyone not aligned with their own beliefs.

Breaking up Trump's cult of personality and holding to account his enablers and all the other manipulators that are still taking advantage of them is at least a good start. Beyond that all that can probably be done is to show that the next four years won't be the end of the world. Unfortunately the right wing media will keep rotting their brains regardless.

[Monster Hunter]

https://news.yahoo.com/capitol-riote...212050414.html

CaN'T bEaT PeOPle uP wiTH FlaGs.

Has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

- - - Updated - - -

We understand why they are doing it: they lack information literacy and can't differentiate between truth and lies. They reject evidence in favor of conspiracies.

Deprogramming so many people is likely not even something that can be feasibly accomplished. They have become inherently distrustful of the media and anyone not aligned with their own beliefs.

Breaking up Trump's cult of personality and holding to account his enablers and all the other manipulators that are still taking advantage of them is at least a good start. Beyond that all that can probably be done is to show that the next four years won't be the end of the world. Unfortunately the right wing media will keep rotting their brains regardless.

Problem is the issue is wider and deeper than trump, trump is a figure head just like bin laden was to islamic extremism, he just one head on the hydra, this problem didn't start with trump nor will it end with him.

People have very short memories in America, or there blind to what goes on globally, either way its a bigger problem than people are grasping

[Kathranis]

Oh, yeah, meant to post this:

https://twitter.com/RayRedacted/stat...88601118273537

Video of a rioter at the airport throwing a tantrum after being kicked off a flight because he's on the no-fly list. Picture these guys faced with a Union machinegun emplacement if the Civil War they fantasize about actually happened.

I feel like there must be more of these videos, but this is the only one I've seen.

[Corvus]

This was a protest turned Insurection, not a planed insurgency from the start. Those are two very different threat levels

You don't turn up at a protest with guns, bombs, gallows and restraints if you aren't planning something. Not all but certainly some of them were planning an inssurection before they arrived.

[Monster Hunter]

You don't turn up at a protest with guns, bombs, gallows and restraints if you aren't planning something. Not all but certainly some of them were planning an inssurection before they arrived.

Yes some were, but the vast majority wernt, just as some who turned up to the BLM protest did so with the intention to instigate riots and looting.

But its still a big difference between a protest turned insurection and a planned and fully armed insurgency.

Often as seen in yugoslavia, Ukraine, chechnya, libia these types of instance are the precursors and warning signs of a full blown insurgency, thats the point, that's why its stupid to draw the conclusion america is safe right now.

America is on the very cusp right now, to feel safe because some mostly placard armed protesters were kicked from the goverments Capitol building by armed police is not a reason to feel joyous and safe, its a damn hell of a warning sign things are gonna get much worse.

I sware this pig headed American mentality will be the death of america, "oh that weak little cowardly kid is harmless", american suprised noises when he shoots up the school.....

You dont need to be brave to kill. Often the most dangerous people are cowards with guns, the USA built a military from them after all.

[Themius]

Yes some were, but the vast majority wernt, just as some who turned up to the BLM protest did so with the intention to instigate riots and looting.

But its still a big difference between a protest turned insurection and a planned and fully armed insurgency.

Often as seen in yugoslavia, Ukraine, chechnya, libia these types of instance are the precursors and warning signs of a full blown insurgency, thats the point, that's why its stupid to draw the conclusion america is safe right now.

America is on the very cusp right now, to feel safe because some mostly placard armed protesters were kicked from the goverments Capitol building by armed police is not a reason to feel joyous and safe, its a damn hell of a warning sign things are gonna get much worse.

The issue with the bolded part is that a lot of the incitement can be traced back to anti-BLM types. Hell, the murder of an officer by a far-right white nationalist was somehow blamed on BLM.

In the case of this storming of the capitol though... they were there specifically to break the law and storm the capitol. They sound up there and then rather naturally as a group without outside incitement stormed the capitol. Trump, Rudy, Politicians all on their own side incited them. Just about every BLM event that had violence (which is like 7% of the protests), these things were perpetrated by outsiders, or outside agitators specifically there to cause havoc and violence

[Xyonai]

So we're back to the 'Now that they've lost all their power, we need to capitulate to the loser's delusions of conspiracy or else they'll burn the country down' talking points?

[PhaelixWW]

Im not talking about legal grounds or a defense of there actions.

Im saying most of them turned up to protest, and then at the protest it became a storming.

Most of them were armed with little more than flags and plaquards,

It becomes a different matter entirly when the call goes out for full insurection and they turn up armed with ARs and munitions.

Yes, if they attack they'll be wholesale slaughtered by law enforcement, not simply allowed to depart somewhat peacefully.

[Monster Hunter]

The issue with the bolded part is that a lot of the incitement can be traced back to anti-BLM types. Hell, the murder of an officer by a far-right white nationalist was somehow blamed on BLM.

In the case of this storming of the capitol though... they were there specifically to break the law and storm the capitol. They sound up there and then rather naturally as a group without outside incitement stormed the capitol. Trump, Rudy, Politicians all on their own side incited them. Just about every BLM event that had violence (which is like 7% of the protests), these things were perpetrated by outsiders, or outside agitators specifically there to cause havoc and violence

That is besides the point, the point is most of them turned up for a protest not an inssurection,it became an insurection after instigation, but no one can argue it was like Ukraine or chechnya or that level of planned and organised and armed, that usualy comes later.

Its what happens every time, each time they push the boundary, just like in Syria, that started with simple un armed protests.

Is every one in America so delusional that they think a people with that level of private arms, and a culture of guarding against there own governent is in any way safe and immune?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, if they attack they'll be wholesale slaughtered by law enforcement, not simply allowed to depart somewhat peacefully.

America has a terrible record on winning against insurgencys.

The only up side is the insurgents this time are as dumb as the American forces so they might just line up like anerica seem to keep expecting them to to get shot...

- - - Updated - - -

So we're back to the 'Now that they've lost all their power, we need to capitulate to the loser's delusions of conspiracy or else they'll burn the country down' talking points?

1. Im british.
2. I hated trump
3. There is no turning back, the turning point was 2016 when trump got power after that this path was mostly inevitable.

[PhaelixWW]

America has a terrible record on winning against insurgencys.

The only up side is the insurgents this time are as dumb as the American forces so they might just line up like anerica seem to keep expecting them to to get shot...

There's a huge difference between coordinated insurgents fighting with guerilla tactics on familiar land where they can flee before reinforcements arrive... and a bunch of uncoordinated yahoos placing themselves in the center of the nation's capital and attacking the government.

[Endus]

Yea im not arguing there not criminals.

Im pointing out to Edge that if you basing you're assumption this or more likely worse won't happen again, or you making the conclusion insurrection is impossible in the US based on that, then your basing it on a flawed example.

This was a protest turned Insurection, not a planed insurgency from the start. Those are two very different threat levels

I'd venture that people like Zipcuffs Guy (I can't be arsed to look up his real name) and such, who showed up with clear preparation to commit serious crimes, had a plan for insurgency from the start. They were using a protest to insert themselves, but here's the thing; nobody in that protest was taking issue with these guys having that gear. Nobody in that protest took issue with the obvious Nazis, wearing Nazi symbols. Nobody in that protest took issue with the violent rhetoric that most of them were chanting.

Maybe a lot of them were too goddamned stupid and gullible to not blindly commit egregious crimes because of a very minimal level of peer pressure, but that's not an excuse. It is, in fact, pathetic. They may not be Nazis or kidnappers or violent people, but they sure as fuck had no problem standing arm-in-arm with those types and helping them with their criminal conduct.

I don't see any reason to give people any benefit of the doubt. I'm willing to allow that maybe they crossed the barriers and were confused, so we don't need to stoop to the level of "everyone who crossed the barriers is a criminal". But every single individual who entered the Capitol and can be identified? Should be charged. With breaking and entering, with various vandalism charges, with attempted kidnapping, with insurrection, and even with murder, via the felony murder rule (that Capitol Police officer died due to injuries by criminals who'd broken in, which makes that murder, and makes everyone sharing in that break-and-enter liable for said murder via felony murder rule).

Every. Single. One. I don't care if they're an "innocent grandma" who got all hopped up on adrenaline and the spirit of the moment. Every damned one of them.

- - - Updated - - -

We understand why they are doing it: they lack information literacy and can't differentiate between truth and lies. They reject evidence in favor of conspiracies.

Deprogramming so many people is likely not even something that can be feasibly accomplished. They have become inherently distrustful of the media and anyone not aligned with their own beliefs.

Breaking up Trump's cult of personality and holding to account his enablers and all the other manipulators that are still taking advantage of them is at least a good start. Beyond that all that can probably be done is to show that the next four years won't be the end of the world. Unfortunately the right wing media will keep rotting their brains regardless.

Frankly, this is how the USA can make better use of its huge prison capacity.

These are the people who need to be in prison, not teenagers who got caught with a bit of weed. You break this cult up by putting them behind bars. Once they're secure and no longer a danger to others, we can work on rehabilitation.

[Edge-]

This was a protest turned Insurection, not a planed insurgency from the start. Those are two very different threat levels

Uh...yeah, it was. They planned this publicly, including actively discussing taking hostages/executing politicians, bringing weapons, grouping up to make it more difficult for law enforcement to push them back etc.

https://www.propublica.org/article/c...e-werent-ready

Many likely only showed up to protest and didn't participate in the insurrection, but many that participated in the attempted insurrection very much planned to do so long before arriving.

Plus like, it takes some planning to build viable bombs, plant them at the DNC/RNC offices and the Capitol building, bringing in a van with bomb making materials, long guns, and ammunition, and bringing 11 molotov cocktails modified to act as napalm alongside more guns.

This is an incredibly bad, no good take that's not reflective of reality but instead reflective of conservative talking points.

[Monster Hunter]

Uh...yeah, it was. They planned this publicly, including actively discussing taking hostages/executing politicians, bringing weapons, grouping up to make it more difficult for law enforcement to push them back etc.

https://www.propublica.org/article/c...e-werent-ready

Many likely only showed up to protest and didn't participate in the insurrection, but many that participated in the attempted insurrection very much planned to do so long before arriving.

Plus like, it takes some planning to build viable bombs, plant them at the DNC/RNC offices and the Capitol building, bringing in a van with bomb making materials, long guns, and ammunition, and bringing 11 molotov cocktails modified to act as napalm alongside more guns.

This is an incredibly bad, no good take that's not reflective of reality but instead reflective of conservative talking points.

Like I said a minority of instigators using a protest to attempt an insurecton.

Im tierd tbh of arguing with ignorance, do america a favor and go read the timeliness of events in yugoslavia, Ukraine and Syria then come back.

[Endus]

Like I said a minority of instigators using a protest to attempt an insurecton.

Im tierd tbh of arguing with ignorance, do america a favor and go read the timeliness of events in yugoslavia, Ukraine and Syria then come back.

What you're not getting is that "protestors" who get pulled into an insurrection attempt like this are the textbook definition of insurrectionists.

They may not be the architects of that insurrection, which are the smaller group you're pointing to, but they are the "soldiers" who actually engage in the actual attempt at insurrection.

The moment they start breaking the law and committing insurrection, they stop being "just protestors". They're insurrectionists from that point on. That they had no intent of becoming such before they showed up is completely fucking irrelevant.

[Monster Hunter]

I'd venture that people like Zipcuffs Guy (I can't be arsed to look up his real name) and such, who showed up with clear preparation to commit serious crimes, had a plan for insurgency from the start. They were using a protest to insert themselves, but here's the thing; nobody in that protest was taking issue with these guys having that gear. Nobody in that protest took issue with the obvious Nazis, wearing Nazi symbols. Nobody in that protest took issue with the violent rhetoric that most of them were chanting.

Maybe a lot of them were too goddamned stupid and gullible to not blindly commit egregious crimes because of a very minimal level of peer pressure, but that's not an excuse. It is, in fact, pathetic. They may not be Nazis or kidnappers or violent people, but they sure as fuck had no problem standing arm-in-arm with those types and helping them with their criminal conduct.

I don't see any reason to give people any benefit of the doubt. I'm willing to allow that maybe they crossed the barriers and were confused, so we don't need to stoop to the level of "everyone who crossed the barriers is a criminal". But every single individual who entered the Capitol and can be identified? Should be charged. With breaking and entering, with various vandalism charges, with attempted kidnapping, with insurrection, and even with murder, via the felony murder rule (that Capitol Police officer died due to injuries by criminals who'd broken in, which makes that murder, and makes everyone sharing in that break-and-enter liable for said murder via felony murder rule).

Every. Single. One. I don't care if they're an "innocent grandma" who got all hopped up on adrenaline and the spirit of the moment. Every damned one of them.

- - - Updated - - -



Frankly, this is how the USA can make better use of its huge prison capacity.

These are the people who need to be in prison, not teenagers who got caught with a bit of weed. You break this cult up by putting them behind bars. Once they're secure and no longer a danger to others, we can work on rehabilitation.

Im not giving them benefit of the doubt, hang them for treason for all I care, less Americans imo is only a good thing for the world.

What im pointing out is judging america immune to being violently over thrown based on this event is delusional america is still a nation culturaly broken,heavily armed and massivly divided, its got all the right conditions to implode.

The question you should be asking is how much of the US military is pro trump?

[Hollycakes]

Even an Immigrant like Arnold understands more about America then Donald Trump who was here by Birthright Citizenship.

Glad you posted this.
I'm amazed at how much I agree with what he's been saying lately. He's spot on.
Just saw this and it reminded me of his other one about vets and stuff that was really good.
He is totes more American than most Americans I know.

Haff to also say, something I wouldn't have said before but, I'm actually quite proud of this country as of late.
Before, I would have thought he could have gotten away with this attempt and you probably couldn't have convinced me otherwise. Even after the election when I saw how much he was fighting it, my heart sank at the possibilities.

I'm from Florida and I'm sure most of you remember Katherine Harris and the Bush v Gore disco party funhouse where we only invited CHADS to drink with us and how that turned out. Also to note: how dems accepted that defeat sans capitol hill storming(stolen election claims included). And from that background, I absolutely thought if you had the right people in the right places, you can in fact take the presidency by hook or by crook. Needless to say I'm delighted to have been so wrong.

<3

[Monster Hunter]

Ideolgical zealots rarely realise the harm they do and always believe themselves to be the good guys.



So you dont believe in democracy but in tyranny of the majority. The way you describe how democracy should be run violence and insurrection are completely justified.

The way endus described how to go is exactly what Britain tried with Ireland and we all should know how well that went.....

[xmirrors]

Oh, yeah, meant to post this:

https://twitter.com/RayRedacted/stat...88601118273537

Video of a rioter at the airport throwing a tantrum after being kicked off a flight because he's on the no-fly list. Picture these guys faced with a Union machinegun emplacement if the Civil War they fantasize about actually happened.

I feel like there must be more of these videos, but this is the only one I've seen.

If he was one of the people to actually enter the capitol and cause destruction then I support banning him from flying, but I think something else is going on here. If he was on the no-fly list he shouldn't have made it to boarding, right? Did he cause mayhem inside by not wearing a mask or something? I would be interested for a followup on this story or official response from the airline.

[Endus]

Im not giving them benefitt of the doubt, hang them for treason for all I care, less Americans imo is only a good thing for the world.

What im pointing out is judging amrica immune to being violently over thrown based on this event is delusional america is still a nation culturaly broken,heavily armed and massivly divided, its got all the right conditions to implode.

The question you should be asking is how much of the US military is pro trump?

The National Guard turned out, against the insurrection.

There is not even a whisper of a hint that these people have any support among the military.

And here's the thing; a lot of people turned out thinking this was gonna be a protest. They won't fall for this again, particularly with the hundreds of arrests coming down the pipe (and that's not hyperbole, that's from the DC's Acting US Attorney; https://www.npr.org/2021/01/10/95531...&ICID=ref_fark )

This was the initiating call to battle, and rather than a shot across the bow, it came off as more of an unusually wet fart.

[Monster Hunter]

The National Guard turned out, against the insurrection.

There is not even a whisper of a hint that these people have any support among the military.

And here's the thing; a lot of people turned out thinking this was gonna be a protest. They won't fall for this again, particularly with the hundreds of arrests coming down the pipe (and that's not hyperbole, that's from the DC's Acting US Attorney; https://www.npr.org/2021/01/10/95531...&ICID=ref_fark )

This was the initiating call to battle, and rather than a shot across the bow, it came off as more of an unusually wet fart.

The second guy with zip ties was an a-10 pilot.

The first time in Syria was also a wet fart.

The IRA was also a wet fart for a long time, then it got bad.

The IRA is also currently little more than a wet fart, but we lernt our lesson the first time not to trust wet farts staying that way.

Eating lots of curry's also teaches the same lesson tbh