Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.
I don't think I'd say we're "fine". Overall the class is in the dumpster for a multitude of reasons. Ranging from 3x dps specs with only 1 of them being an approximation of "viable" (personally I don't feel it is, and it is in my opinion our worst to play spec), our complete and utter lack of raid utility, the fact that the hybrid tax is a thing of the past while rogues have one of - if not the single most - antiquated design, our covenant abilities being garbage comparatively (especially in pvp) and the fact that most of our kit has been piece-mealed out to other classes in improved versions (it's not a great idea to compare a single class to another, but if you look at our class verse all the classes you find that in some fashion any class that got a piece of our kit got a better version of it). You take all of that and then add in historically and currently we see the least amount of design attention and "fine" isn't even on the radar.
The rogue covenant spells really do feel garbage which doesnt help as the specs already feel bare bone as is.
This is another expansion where I dunno why you would bring more melee than you need over ranged. Boomkin, locks, hunters all bring more damage and are much safer to have in the raid.
Rogues saving grace for the longest time was our damage reduction ability with strong single target dps but both of those have been nerfed enough so other classes took over because of what they offer instead.
Also outlaw sucks I hate hating to play that spec
That's exactly the point. It's not that we don't work - it's that others have "more working" versions of out toolkit. Hence Blizzard doesn't touch us. More details in the PM i sent you.
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Agree. I watched some videos about the analysis of who plays which covenants, and the conclusion was that Night Fae is not only the strongest number wise, but also most elaborated and polished and with added shenanigans, as if Blizzard put a lot more work on it (or just had better ideas for) compared to other covenants. Druid and Hunters, the two most played classes, are basically all Night Fae.
Rogues definitely need completely redone covenants skills. They're balanced by the fact they're all underpowered so it literally makes no difference. I would keep only Sepsis because a) has some mechanics and synergies that can be useful (extra stealth, execute, nature damage scales with Assa toolkit) and b) if underpowered, you can just bump up numbers. The rest to me is garbage that needs to be completely overhauled.
EDIT: historically (thanks to statistics) ranged has always been more represented in raid while melee were more present in M+. And we're talking about 53% vs 47% in both cases. It's shadowlands that broke the trend where in any pve content ranged wins over melee, being around 60% vs 40% more or less (not counting trends like rerollers, alts, etc).
Last edited by Coldkil; 2021-02-12 at 10:08 AM.
Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.
So was it really Cloak of shadows and Feint that were keeping us relevant in a raid setting? because that is basically what changed. Feint was nerfed (and other classes have their own personal cd's) and the raid utility cloak provides... some classes now have "better" versions of it.
Smoke Bomb was awesome to have and i don't get why it got canned as a raid utility. Our survivability is still really good, but i just don't get why we cannot provide a magic/phisical dmg debuff depending on spec (Sub/Assa for the first, Outlaw for the second).
Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.
Well, technically we still bring an enrage dispell or a 70% snare (shiv + mindnumbing/cripling) but for the first one I don't think there actually IS a dispellable enrage in Castle Nathria and the second one generally is not needed on bosses.
I also am assuming that bosses are immune to mindnumbing's casting/swing speed slowing effect.
Maybe it's not that we have no utility, it's just that it is not useful/usable in raids...
yea make rogue useful in raids.
“Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”
My main problem with the logs is each week rogues are going down, been below the middle of dps as a pure MELEE dps that bring nothing to the party is not a place you want to be, I'm curious, is there a reason to bring a rogue next raid progress in the current situation we are right now? the way I see it if WW/DK continues to be the way they are now there is zero reasons to bring a rogue, this is the first time i question if choosing rogue was the right call and I can't believe I'm in this situation t
Do you feel intellectually superior to people who are younger than you? Specifically those born after the 2000s? Why do you feel that calling someone a "kid" is demeaning? Does it make you feel good to call someone a kid?
Probably one of the weirdest posts I've seen on this forum. You come across as such a immature person, yet you use "kid" as something demeaning. Kids are usually, guess what, immature - because they're kids. And you're acting immature.. So. Very strange indeed.
Hi
According to raiderio, the 33 higgest m+ clears all had a mage and a rogue in their group. The reason rogues werent part of the MDI is, that MDI is about fast clears of easy dungeons and monks offer good utility for speedruns.
But rogues arent bad. Unholy is your biggest issue though. Unholy immunities were so strong this tier and unholy is just superior including execute. Overall rogues should outscale monks anyways. Unholy will stay very strong without nerfs.
state of rogue is sadge
You are getting deleted by the rogues fire mage partner,not by the rogue.. rogues have good utility/control in pvp but their dmg is nothing if you survive their opener and with 220+ ilvl that is not problem at all. only good comps for rogue is fire/rogue and rmp, if they nerf mages rogues will come shit tier. Meanwhile warriors and monks can slap any healer combo in there and shine.
Id rather have more dmg outside dance windows than inside them, backstab is laughable ability right now.
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Another problem is that AMZ incentivizes class stacking of DKs. Class stacking is always a bad thing. Sometimes there are specific mechanics which incentivizes class stacking but then it usually just one specific fight. Right now you want to class stacks DKs in general which is absolutely horrible. They really need to put a shared CD on AMZ just like they do with Hero. Otherwise DKs will take all the melee spots for the rest of the expansion.
Thats a bait, tanks take 50% more dmg, that meme spec wont work against anything above 1400, yes it can suprise people few times but if your one trick pony didnt work you can just leave arena since you got only one dance and you just used all ur cd's and then yours backstabbing for 500dmg
there are alot of bugs in rogue subtlety talents spec.
“Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”
Rogues are fine right now