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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    The point was shattering the sky so the Maw could invade Azeroth.

    I'm quite sure the next raid tier (9.1) will be on Azeroth, repelling the Scourge and Maw forces.
    First of all the devs successes said we will not be leaving the Shadowlands for the expansion. They already kinda broke that too, because I had at least 2 quests for the Nightfae that let me to Azeroth (Twilight Highlands and Nazmir).

    More inportant questions:

    1. Why invade Azeroth? Why not one of the countless other worlds? Is it that world soul thing again? Might be.
    2. Why shatter the veil when he was CLEARLY not ready to invade? Currently it seems like he is not even close to invade.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    We are in patch 9.0, this is something we won't know till much later.
    Yeah, like, two expansions afterwards, when they release a book retconning a reason for it.

    Shock value is the right answer for now.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    First of all the devs successes said we will not be leaving the Shadowlands for the expansion. They already kinda broke that too, because I had at least 2 quests for the Nightfae that let me to Azeroth (Twilight Highlands and Nazmir).

    More inportant questions:

    1. Why invade Azeroth? Why not one of the countless other worlds? Is it that world soul thing again? Might be.
    2. Why shatter the veil when he was CLEARLY not ready to invade? Currently it seems like he is not even close to invade.
    1. He has apparently chosen Anduin to be his tool to bring about his victory. Anduin was on this planet. That could be why. Maybe.
    2. Pretty much the same as two. Anduin was here, the veil was in the way, had to get rid of it. Also keep in mind our assault on his stronghold in the Maw was an unmitigated disaster so you can't even use the "well, he just enabled us to attack him back" angle.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  4. #24
    The Helm was always meant to be destroyed to open the gate so the Jailers forces could invade Azeroth once he had enough power. The Pantheon of Death knows about the living Pantheon, so The Jailer needed to surpass them in strength before invading, incase they came to stop him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    Argus's death tossing the arbiter offline gave all the souls to him.
    It has been hinted at that Titans go to the Order plane upon death and not to the SLs themselves, like how elementals go to the Elemental Planes on death. Most likely it was Remornia that hit the Arbiter and knocked her offline since she sounds like the "soul" that hit the Arbiter, but it could have also been Xavius, or Gul'dan, or a plethora of other beings. The Jailers plan has been in effect at least since Kil'jaeden trapped Ner'zhul in the armor. So that means The Jailer had to direct the path of everyone on Azeroth and the Legion to be able to navigate us to Argus to kill Argus if he was the part to knock out the Arbiter. Plus, only mortal souls contain anima, Titan souls do not. So they wouldn't go to the Shadowlands based on that.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    Yeah, like, two expansions afterwards, when they release a book retconning a reason for it.
    I don't understand the reference.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    First of all the devs successes said we will not be leaving the Shadowlands for the expansion.
    When did they ever say this? One of the first things we do in Oribos is open a portal straight to Azeroth.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    When did they ever say this? One of the first things we do in Oribos is open a portal straight to Azeroth.
    They didn't. Though storywise, we didn't leave, we just let others in so far.

  7. #27
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdna View Post
    Man, the story in Shadowlands makes me very sad. It reads like an terrible fanfic, let me elaborate on that. It seems like WoW has been taken over by some people who are super jealous of the old Warcraft team, so they made an expansion that changes (or expands) everything for - in their opinion - better:

    1) Remember the scourge? They were cool, with their plagues and skeletons and necromancers and stuff. Well, in SL you meet the REAL source of necromantic magic, were the REAL power is. The things you've seen in the past are just pale imitations of our new faction.
    2) Remember how cool the Night Elves were? With their tree houses and forest buildings and nature powers? Well, in SL you meed the REAL source of this forest shit, were the REAL power is...
    3) Remember the Lich King? Well, in SL you meet the REAL power behind the Helm, this Jailer dude...

    More examples can be found if you look hard enough. Of course that WoW story was never that great but making an expac with better, and stronger, and more important characters than the old ones we loved seems like a new low for the blizzard story team. Now we just need to wait for the Sylvanas redemption arc that will put the final nail in the coffin for the Warcraft lore.
    Yeah we meet where all the Scourge's origins come from because everything comes from something, thats obvious. Ardenweald isn't the source of their culture and so far there's not much Nelf stuff there aside from Tyrande's arc.

    Yeah the Lich King is essentially a construct but how it was made is still made well. All this sounds like "WE FOUND ORIGINS AND WE SHOULD STAY IGNORANT!" We naturally want answers and the history of such things. The Shadowlands are a result of learning about the history of the Lich King.

    It is not a nail in the coffin of lore, theatrics doesn't suit you..like at all.



    OT: The helm of domination being destroyed broke the veil between Life and Death. Thus it makes it easier for creatures from the Maw go to Azeroth and since Zovaal wants "The soul of your world" yeah it had to be done. Its pretty straight forward.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    And we know very little about that plan, so you're pretty much flailing around in the dark here. We need more information on what he's even trying to achieve beyond the vague end goal to have any useful discussion about this.
    You aren't familiar with how forums work eh?
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  9. #29
    I think the whole point was that Bolvar wasn't performing the service that the Jailer needed him to. Since Arthas was defeated, i think the Jailer gave up on his Lich King plan to aid in his release, and the reason he sent Sylvanas there was to simply reclaim his power back to The Shadowlands. All those souls & power being sent back to The Shadowlands causing a huge rift between the realms is clearly of some benefit to The Jailer's new plan in some way. He wants to release himself from The Maw and claim Azeroth, having a huge ass portal between the 2 realms can only benefit that plan.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    They didn't. Though storywise, we didn't leave, we just let others in so far.
    But this is wrong, they send reports back to the leaders of the Alliance and Horde. And as the person I quoted to said, there's multiple questchains that send you to Azeroth from the Shadowlands, such as the Kyrians and Ben Howell.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    First of all the devs successes said we will not be leaving the Shadowlands for the expansion. They already kinda broke that too, because I had at least 2 quests for the Nightfae that let me to Azeroth (Twilight Highlands and Nazmir).

    More inportant questions:

    1. Why invade Azeroth? Why not one of the countless other worlds? Is it that world soul thing again? Might be.
    2. Why shatter the veil when he was CLEARLY not ready to invade? Currently it seems like he is not even close to invade.
    They said we would not be leaving the shadowlands for any major patches. So any new content would be in the shadowlands, but some quests would have us leave.
    Also he is not invading, if you read the actual convenient campaign you would understand what his plan is and it has nothing to do with invading.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    But this is wrong, they send reports back to the leaders of the Alliance and Horde. And as the person I quoted to said, there's multiple questchains that send you to Azeroth from the Shadowlands, such as the Kyrians and Ben Howell.
    People are extra polating a little. In the panel interview they mentioned that time moves differently in the shadow lands (mind you they didn't really say time skip either) and they (I don't have the actual quote sorry) mentioned their aim to keep the story within the shadowlands like it will feel like when we return we have been gone a while.

    People have kinda extended that interview a bit. I will admit that the ysera quest is kind of antagonistic to their point.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    mentioned their aim to keep the story within the shadowlands like it will feel like when we return we have been gone a while.
    You sure you remembering that right?

    https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...orks-different

    WoWChakra: It looks like time runs differently in the Shadowlands than in Azeroth. Maybe that’s why Uther, Kael’Thas and other characters have been there for ages when it has been just a few years in Azeroth. How does time go by in Shadowlands and what does that mean for our characters?

    Ion: The answer is complicated. It’s not like some science fiction movies where in a black hole time just moves faster; but time is different in Shadowlands.

    Time is a construct of Order and structure; and things in the Shadowlands are more Chaotic in a lot of ways. Think about how time moves in a (???) — to some extent. While it is not necessarily a fixed amount of time, things can bounce around.

    For the souls that have been in the Shadowlands, to them it might feel like they have been here for a very very long time — as they thought of their own personal journeys and evolution; but it is not necessarily a 3X faster, 10X faster. Time is different. And what does that mean for our characters? Well, that’s something that we’ll have to see as we come out the other end.
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=316889/...t-swapping-tim

    In a past interview, some hints were dropped that time worked differently in Shadowlands, which led to speculation that when we return from the Shadowlands, there is a huge timeskip coming in a future expansion. Ion clarified this, saying that time is perceived differently in Shadowlands, like a dream where you sleep for six hours but in the dream state you experience events covering a wider range of time. It's not like every day in the Shadowlands is equivalent to five days in Azeroth. "Don't read too much into the timey-wimey-ness of it."
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by bdna View Post
    Man, the story in Shadowlands makes me very sad. It reads like an terrible fanfic, let me elaborate on that. It seems like WoW has been taken over by some people who are super jealous of the old Warcraft team, so they made an expansion that changes (or expands) everything for - in their opinion - better:

    1) Remember the scourge? They were cool, with their plagues and skeletons and necromancers and stuff. Well, in SL you meet the REAL source of necromantic magic, were the REAL power is. The things you've seen in the past are just pale imitations of our new faction.
    2) Remember how cool the Night Elves were? With their tree houses and forest buildings and nature powers? Well, in SL you meed the REAL source of this forest shit, were the REAL power is...
    3) Remember the Lich King? Well, in SL you meet the REAL power behind the Helm, this Jailer dude...

    More examples can be found if you look hard enough. Of course that WoW story was never that great but making an expac with better, and stronger, and more important characters than the old ones we loved seems like a new low for the blizzard story team. Now we just need to wait for the Sylvanas redemption arc that will put the final nail in the coffin for the Warcraft lore.
    That read like someone mad Blizzard didn't take their fanfic and make it lore. You sound salty that the story isn't going the way you want it to. Just because they're expanding on old storylines doesn't make it fanfic. It's character and story progression. If you don't like the direction WoW's story has gone, stop playing it instead of whining about it, and especially stop visiting the games forums.

    Also: Remember the fact when you were first experiencing Warcraft you were over 15 years younger than you are now. Maybe it might be that Warcraft's story has always been this way and you're just growing out of it? And that's okay, but some of us don't care the direction the story goes, we just enjoy the ride. If you want specific Warcraft stories, write your own fanfic and get over the fact you have zero creative control over Warcraft's story and either enjoy the ride or move on to something you actually enjoy.
    I'm a thread killer.

  15. #35
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    The Jailer already had a plan set in motion.

    According to Devos, "we would have never learnt of this calamity" had Uther just gotten rid (if he could have) of his memories, which means PRIOR to WOTLK, his plan was in motion.

    Fast forward a few years and we land smack dab into Shadowlands.

    But going through the storyline, Revendreth anima would have been forced into the Maw anyway. Denathrius and his plan for the drought would have happened anyway.

    The only thing we have changed is stopping them.
    (holy crap does this mean Sylvanas is a good person? /s)

    Obviously, every thing that is imprisoned wants to break out. So the jailer having a plan is not the issue, thats normal. My point is. What the hell does the helm even do, besides taking Azerothian leaders hostage and getting the PC some sick ass loot?

    The only thing the Jailer has really gained, is Anduin for a supposed weapon. but in the hell does a being that is so damn powerful that it takes 4 additional beings of similar power to keep chained away, NEED WITH ANDUIN.

    like really, what if Garrosh, back in MoP thought, "no you little shit, breaking the bell on your ass is not enough" walks over and slams gorehowl into his head, what then? I mean hes going to break out anyway as per Denathrius and the machine of death being broken. So why break the helm in anticipation of making a weapon out of Anduin. And possible invite people like Gnomercy the fury warrior, xSephirothx the blood elf paladin and XLegolazX the night elf hunter into your house to farm purples. You are gonna break out anyway. Why add this variable?
    Personally, I think the Jailer's plan has been a more long term one - it's only now with the sundering of the Helm and the full breaking of the machine of Death that it can come to its fruition. While some of this remains speculation and guesswork on my part, I think the creation of Frostmourne and the Lich King was essentially step 1 of a master plan of sorts. It essentially gave the Jailer a foothold into the physical world, creating a conduit by which his will could be extended beyond the Maw's confines. This, in turn, allowed him to start spreading his influence beyond the Maw - creating things like the Cult of the Damned, extending the influence of Necromancy, etc. etc. Over time and with successive iterations of the Scourge this foothold grew by inches and ounces, until the Jailer could at last access true proxies such the the Val'kyr, figures like Kel'Thuzad, possibly Ephial, and eventually Sylvanas Windrunner.

    Once Death was broken and the Arbiter suborned, the flow of unattached anima was shifted to the Maw - and this set up Sire Denathrius to make his play to dump the excesses of Revendreth, where the established flow of anima would bring it straight into the Jailer's hands. Sylvanas breaks the Helm and opens the door wide for the Jailer, who now only needs a final thing before he can stride through with his power intact and enact his vengeance on the Eternal Ones (and perhaps all of creation).
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  16. #36
    I always assumed his plan required a living mortal and that's why the helm eventually had to be shattered. which any lich king except special case bolvar would probably have done themselves.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by bdna View Post
    Man, the story in Shadowlands makes me very sad. It reads like an terrible fanfic, let me elaborate on that. It seems like WoW has been taken over by some people who are super jealous of the old Warcraft team, so they made an expansion that changes (or expands) everything for - in their opinion - better:

    1) Remember the scourge? They were cool, with their plagues and skeletons and necromancers and stuff. Well, in SL you meet the REAL source of necromantic magic, were the REAL power is. The things you've seen in the past are just pale imitations of our new faction.
    2) Remember how cool the Night Elves were? With their tree houses and forest buildings and nature powers? Well, in SL you meed the REAL source of this forest shit, were the REAL power is...
    3) Remember the Lich King? Well, in SL you meet the REAL power behind the Helm, this Jailer dude...

    More examples can be found if you look hard enough. Of course that WoW story was never that great but making an expac with better, and stronger, and more important characters than the old ones we loved seems like a new low for the blizzard story team. Now we just need to wait for the Sylvanas redemption arc that will put the final nail in the coffin for the Warcraft lore.
    That's what happens when you judge the entire story by only looking at parts of it. I can do it too. Watch:

    WoW is exactly the same as a data entry job. You do nothing but sit at a computer pushing buttons.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    But this is wrong, they send reports back to the leaders of the Alliance and Horde. And as the person I quoted to said, there's multiple questchains that send you to Azeroth from the Shadowlands, such as the Kyrians and Ben Howell.
    yeah but lorewise that kinda stuff always takes a lot of effort for the player factions. the portals arent open all the time etc.

    kyrians obviously can go back, that's their dayjob. nightfae also got their own portal so it's not super strange they can send one of their own through if need be, and sending the living player character through is probably not much different than sending a nature spirit through.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    The Helm was always meant to be destroyed to open the gate so the Jailers forces could invade Azeroth once he had enough power. The Pantheon of Death knows about the living Pantheon, so The Jailer needed to surpass them in strength before invading, incase they came to stop him.



    It has been hinted at that Titans go to the Order plane upon death and not to the SLs themselves, like how elementals go to the Elemental Planes on death. Most likely it was Remornia that hit the Arbiter and knocked her offline since she sounds like the "soul" that hit the Arbiter, but it could have also been Xavius, or Gul'dan, or a plethora of other beings. The Jailers plan has been in effect at least since Kil'jaeden trapped Ner'zhul in the armor. So that means The Jailer had to direct the path of everyone on Azeroth and the Legion to be able to navigate us to Argus to kill Argus if he was the part to knock out the Arbiter. Plus, only mortal souls contain anima, Titan souls do not. So they wouldn't go to the Shadowlands based on that.
    Xavius was a demon, he wouldn't go to the Shadowlands. Possibly even Gul'dan wouldn't, if his mythic phase of trying to absorb Illidan's powers is canon. Even when he first arrived in our Azeroth he was able to get into the Tomb because he was "not quite a demon", and that could've changed. Remoria? That's a candidate I haven't seen put forth before.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  20. #40
    Scarab Lord Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    i addressed that. my point is why. it was done on the jailer's order, but honestly, why lol, Denathrius was going to siphon anima anyway. the machine of death was already broken. The drought was already in effect.

    If anything we mucked his plan up by him having sylvanas break it.
    Honestly we know dick all about the Jailer or Sylvanas' plans at this point. I assume the reason they wanted the Maw connected to Azeroth was so the Jailer could eventually leave the Shadowlands.

    As it stands, sure, Revendreth is feeding the Maw and so on and so forth, but can the Jailer actually affect places that aren't IN the Shadowlands once he's out of the Maw?
    Sure, conquer the Shadowlands, but can he leave? I don't know if he can or not. I think his goal is to escape the Maw, and then after that escape the Shadowlands.

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