We've gotten too powerful

[Daedius]

I've really liked Shadowlands, but our power is so out of control that the real-life equivalent would be having Vladimir Putin as our plumber.

Over the last 15 years we've stabberized every archvillain, deity, and archvillain-pantheon-of-demigod-deities, then gone back in time (Caverns AND Warlords) for repeats, then traveled to the realm of death itself just to rub it in one more time.

Our characters either need to die or ascend to godhood or something so we can start back out as something reasonable.



(And if possible I'd really like to keep this in general chat because it's not about the minutiae of lore details but the general idea that power creep has made the storyline unbelievable with our arch-god status with demi-gods as our minions.)

And yet every expansion wild life keeps on top of us.

Image if they invaded us via stampede back in Vanilla!

[SirBeef]

Pretty much this...and next x-pac a Fell reaver stops you. Then we beat Ilidan etc and nex x-pac a wandering elite takes you down while questing. So we still kill Arthas hardly with 25 man and years later solo him. We killed gods in x-pacs and now I still need a group to quickly finish a 250 anima elite WQ.



Well...OP specifically said he wants to keep this out of the Lore. And I agree...all these things are Gameplay elements. Including kill a god in one x-pac, die to a quest mob in the next.

Makes OPs suggestion to kill us off still ridiculous. If that happens....I think people will truly quit in droves and it would finally actually kill WoW. Maybe Blizzard pulls this card when nobody is buying x-pacs and all we do is "start fresh" on legacy servers for every x-pac. But to do it while we still expect more stories and x-pacs? No way.

I can see it once the plug is finally pulled on WoW like 20 years from now and Sargeras finally does what he wants and destroyed all of existence as a final last act as the servers are being shut down.

[Devilyaki]

The true power are the friends we made along the way though.

[exsanguinate]

A complete power reset would be nice. Good old quest like "Who are you, maggot? You think you can prove yourselves worthy of protecting our village? Bring me 10 bear asses" instead of "Oh, champion. There is a huge dragon in the cave. Please, kill him as you are the only hope to safe our world".

I cringe everytime when I read I'm the superb champion of Azeroth and what not. I can somehow relate why it is that way because we killed a lot of stuff in the past and big names, but still. I don't like it.

And don't forget we killed big names as a big group and not as an individual. Makes a huge difference.

[Forteofgray]

People have a hard time separating gameplay element from story elements. There has to be a gameplay loop that supersedes the story, otherwise after taking out C'thun 15-16 years ago, there is no reason to do menial tasks anymore. Talk about a boring game if that were the case.

There was also a time when players bitched to no end that the player never got credited for what we did. It was just a bunch if adventurers aided by big lore names who got all the credit. Now we have been shown to grow as player characters over the years and are credited for our efforts and people want to go back to being lowly adventurers. It just doesn't work that way.

Anyone see ding 15+ years in the public doing good deeds, saving people, countries, and the planet whenever they ate in danger would be considered famous heroes and be given similar accolades we get in game. We are literally super heroes as a direct result of our deeds.

People just can't ignore that.

- - - Updated - - -



I see my name scrawled in chat all the time. It's just the voice lines that say hero, champion, and etc..

But it's fine. Just another glaring example of bitching just to bitch.

I wasn't bitching, I was just trying to express my opinion.

[Nathanyel]

Reminder even now people still complain "i just fucking killed a god, and now bats are giving me a hard time wtf!? and dude asks me to get him some grapes, boi i killed a god, get em yourself!"

Exactly, someone will complain about every tiny step in whichever direction.
"Dungeons are too easy/too hard!"
"Loot is meaningless/omg not enough loot!"
"I know I'm a maxlevel character that cleared the current raid on mythic and I am wearing that raid's set without mogging over it, but I'd like to be viewed as just a simple adventurer!"

[Lazerbrain]

Well we are not mortal, bwonsamdi knows this.

We are not 25/40 people from the same timeline fighting a boss either, there is only one champion, one hero, all the other champions are from other timelines in a multiverse that stretches as far in number as there are players plying.

The story in wow is very much a singleplayer story about the immortal timewalker able to summon shadowclones(other players) from this multiverse to overcome any obstacle.

[Gaidax]

I mean what do you want? If we'd be picking up 8 boar snouts and dispatching 5 bandits and 10 highwaymen for years, there would not be 15 years of WoW really.

Considering out kill list and what not - yeah maybe we should be having Putin as our garrison plumber, alongside with Horde and Alliance leadership.

[Sielu]

I've fallen off a cliff and died while in the Shadowlands.

Apparently I am not that powerful.

What else after this quote needs to be said.

[Garymorilix]

am I the only one who don't think raids are representative of what actually happens? I see it as armies, which we are leading because we are champions, tackling whatever threat there is.
It's not 20 or 10 dudes waltzing in to lay some smackdown on whatever threat we face. That's just for gameplay reasons. Didn't they confirm during WotLK that the raid on ICC was actually thousands of soldiers and what not fighting? We aren't as powerful as X god or entity, but as a force with our factions behind us helping us we lead the charge to victory.

Salute to all the unknown soldiers giving their lives so we can take the glory

This is exactly the case.
People really can't be this dense to think that the same 20-25 party of random adventurers canonically defeated everything since Vanilla.

Please people, think just a little.
It is blowing my mind how hard it is for people to udnerstand basic concepts of gmaeplay vs lore.

[Kuvanet]

I’ve always thought the solution to this was handled best in legion. We were given these incredible weapons to even the playing field. When we enter raids we should be given a buff, just for RP purposes. That way it would make sense of how I a gnome hunter just killed the lich king in full green gear. Again, this is just for the story to make a little sense.

[loras]

I've really liked Shadowlands, but our power is so out of control that the real-life equivalent would be having Vladimir Putin as our plumber.

Over the last 15 years we've stabberized every archvillain, deity, and archvillain-pantheon-of-demigod-deities, then gone back in time (Caverns AND Warlords) for repeats, then traveled to the realm of death itself just to rub it in one more time.

Our characters either need to die or ascend to godhood or something so we can start back out as something reasonable.



(And if possible I'd really like to keep this in general chat because it's not about the minutiae of lore details but the general idea that power creep has made the storyline unbelievable with our arch-god status with demi-gods as our minions.)

It's good to keep in mind that we borrow a lot of that power, even in WoD we had these lorewise-insane rings of power, and even then we often have help from very powerful creatures just to give us a chance (a chance which we, of course, always make, since a story that ends in permanent failure is just uninteresting).

That said to me the real issue to me is that all these calamities have happened in such a short timespan, which makes it seem rather weird that there ever were lulls in the chaos. So a timeskip would seem more in order.

[baskev]

I've really liked Shadowlands, but our power is so out of control that the real-life equivalent would be having Vladimir Putin as our plumber.

Over the last 15 years we've stabberized every archvillain, deity, and archvillain-pantheon-of-demigod-deities, then gone back in time (Caverns AND Warlords) for repeats, then traveled to the realm of death itself just to rub it in one more time.

Our characters either need to die or ascend to godhood or something so we can start back out as something reasonable.



(And if possible I'd really like to keep this in general chat because it's not about the minutiae of lore details but the general idea that power creep has made the storyline unbelievable with our arch-god status with demi-gods as our minions.)

yup. Its become silly....you have never faced this great a army....eeuhhh we fought the burning legion.

Story wise it find it funny how each time they act like: look at us we are god like etc etc.

and we go: eeuhh old gods, titan keepers, dragon aspects, titan himself etc etc all said the same thing.

[Teriz]

You're simply the hero of the story. It's no different than any action or adventure movie you see where one person takes down an entire army of people. Like others, I actually enjoy getting recognized for my past deeds, and faction leaders acknowledging my existence. If you've walked with Anduin in Stormwind harbor when he was a boy, he should recognize you when you walk into the throne room when he's the king and all grown up.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

We really don't know the full extent of the power creep yet. But I can tell you the "mile stones" I passed from like 190 to 200, then 200 to 210, and then 210 to 220 my power levels increased pretty high. If they continue to progress conducts and soulbinds combined with item level by the end of this expansion it is going to be pretty insane. Probably be pushing 300ish item level? Now the borrowed powers will go away so that is where we will be brought back to the ground again. Leveling in the next expansion will cuck the secondaries. But with the huge increase on primaries as the priority it probably means another squish in the expansion that follows the expansion that follows SLs. Probably just needs to be accepted as normal now because it is.

[garicasha]

Bunch of great comments here!

Yes, I understand the idea that it wasn't 40 people that killed Ragnaros, but a whole army. And it wasn't 40 people that killed Nef, C'Thun, KT, 10 that cleared out Kara, 25 that got Magtheridon, etc. etc. etc.

The problem is the inherent absurdity that one of these soldiers (us) was lucky enough to live through....3-5 end bosses per expansion for 9 expansions. At some point one of these Old Gods/Eredar/Dragon Aspects/Wizards/Demons/Elemental Lords/Vampires/Titans would have gibbed us.

And there's definitely no solution to this problem that would make everyone happy. A power reset creates problems, and it was frustrating in the middle of BC and stuff where we'd done all these amazing things but still were nobodies lore-wise (which started to get better with the addition of phasing, at least the world looked nicer after we cleaned it up a bit).

But it's not like we can really go up anymore.


With spoilers:


The opening sequence of Shadowlands literally has us walking around with highlords, warchiefs, and kings as our minions.

Then in Torghast we're literally rescuing some of the most powerful lore characters because their a---- are trapped and we need to go bail THEM out. I haven't totally finished all the lore in Shadowlands yet but the message is that we're now assisting Jaina, Thrall, Mograine, etc. because they're now the scrubs that need OUR help.

[Nerovar]

A lot of this could be fixed with some contrived plot that drains our player characters' power combined with a time skip that results in our characters being less famous. I mean, there certainly are options to do something like this but I'm not sure if Blizzard or even the playerbase want us to be anything else than ubergodslayer champions of azeroth and the underworld.

[FelPlague]

Bunch of great comments here!

Yes, I understand the idea that it wasn't 40 people that killed Ragnaros, but a whole army. And it wasn't 40 people that killed Nef, C'Thun, KT, 10 that cleared out Kara, 25 that got Magtheridon, etc. etc. etc.

The problem is the inherent absurdity that one of these soldiers (us) was lucky enough to live through....3-5 end bosses per expansion for 9 expansions. At some point one of these Old Gods/Eredar/Dragon Aspects/Wizards/Demons/Elemental Lords/Vampires/Titans would have gibbed us.

And there's definitely no solution to this problem that would make everyone happy. But I mean the opening sequence of Shadowlands literally has us walking around with highlords, warchiefs, and kings as our minions. A power reset creates problems...but it's not like we can really go up anymore.

You say that but things like that happen all the time. when you have sheer numbers like that, there is bound to be one who makes it

perfect example, the dude who survived both nukes dropped on japan, survived the first with some injuries, went to the next location to be with his family and boom another bomb, survived both.

- - - Updated - - -

A lot of this could be fixed with some contrived plot that drains our player characters' power combined with a time skip that results in our characters being less famous. I mean, there certainly are options to do something like this but I'm not sure if Blizzard or even the playerbase want us to be anything else than ubergodslayer champions of azeroth and the underworld.

1. draining our power they have done that like... 3 times already that aint gunna do much
2. even if they do a time skip it again wont really fix stuff as there will still be some people that remember us, shadowlands is the best example of this, we go to a place no one knows us, we are literally reset, we are only known by the fact we are one of the many maw walkers, and can leave the maw, seemingly the only remaining living maw walker.

[Kumorii]

Bunch of great comments here!

Yes, I understand the idea that it wasn't 40 people that killed Ragnaros, but a whole army. And it wasn't 40 people that killed Nef, C'Thun, KT, 10 that cleared out Kara, 25 that got Magtheridon, etc. etc. etc.

The problem is the inherent absurdity that one of these soldiers (us) was lucky enough to live through....3-5 end bosses per expansion for 9 expansions. At some point one of these Old Gods/Eredar/Dragon Aspects/Wizards/Demons/Elemental Lords/Vampires/Titans would have gibbed us.

And there's definitely no solution to this problem that would make everyone happy. But I mean the opening sequence of Shadowlands literally has us walking around with highlords, warchiefs, and kings as our minions. A power reset creates problems...but it's not like we can really go up anymore.

We are champions because we made it... Just like any soldier who makes it through multiple battles. They tend to increase in rank if they survive.

[Nerovar]

1. draining our power they have done that like... 3 times already that aint gunna do much
2. even if they do a time skip it again wont really fix stuff as there will still be some people that remember us, shadowlands is the best example of this, we go to a place no one knows us, we are literally reset, we are only known by the fact we are one of the many maw walkers, and can leave the maw, seemingly the only remaining living maw walker.

This doesn't really apply to my scenario though.

We haven't been "drained" personally but merely lost our big power stick (Artifact Weapons/Heart of Azeroth). I guess you'd have to establish what makes our characters strong before you can take away some of our power but it's definitely possible. They could even say that after the final Shadowlands patch as part of the ending we seal the breach over Icecrown but we're stuck inside the Shadowlands for a long time until we get rescued by the Light or some other higher power after years have passed and a part of our soul has to remain inside the Shadowlands along with the anima we've amassed throughout our lives (which is why we're now significantly less powerful).
Sure, some people would recognize us as an old war hero who was thought dead but as long as we establish that we're not demigods anymore in terms of power it can effectively function as a soft reset.