Bring back warforging!

[Mardux]

I guess we'll break this down.

Are there a numerous amount of posts from people complaining about the state of loot? Yes. But we can also deep dive into those posts and the content discussion being had. If the popular opinion sided vastly in your favor, which is what you claim, the threads would all be circle jerks of people bitching about the state of loot. Alas, that is not what happens. What usually results in these type of threads is a diverse range of specific opinions, ranging from "get fucked casual" to "gimme enough loot to hit max ilvl by week 3 of a tier release" in spectrum of content, with the closer you are to either end of the spectrum the less you're willing to actually have a discussion and would prefer to just live in an echo chamber of your own bias.

The vast majority of people side with neither extreme and really fall into some realm of "x loot style isn't perfect, but I prefer it over y at least" and some will even discuss how they would improve upon the current situation.

You can have an opinion an opinion such as "I prefer less loot that means more over an overabundance of loot that mostly went to waste" without it meaning you think the current system is perfect. Like I said, and you ignored earlier, I think the current system can be improved upon. The thing is you're currently running on the "I refuse to see the merit in any opinion but my own" group right now and you immediate dismiss/deny anything that does not confirm your bias and instead of bringing any actual useful discussion to the table you result to attacks on people who disagree with you and dismiss it with the statement "I can't understand x people who do y." That's entirely on you for not having the capacity to engage in a meaningful debate of opinions.

I am not "bending over backwards" to defend Blizzard's game design like you seem to think I am. I provide feedback where I choose to. Sometimes it's positive, sometimes it's negative, but I always try to provide it in a way that is constructive, which is something you apparently can't understand since you're so quick to dismiss any content of what I've actually said.

Because no one uses gold or enchanting mats in this game?

[Siraeyou]

Because no one uses gold or enchanting mats in this game?

Have people had issues with getting enchanting mats or not having enough gold so far? My guild and several of my friends's guilds all have had no such issues but that's just from my point of view so if that's something the majority of people are having issues with that has merit.

[Argorwal]

lmfao you are so wrong it's not even funny. As I've mentioned in other posts, there are people doing 20 m+ dungeons and getting MAYBE two pieces of loot. That's fucking horrendous. It's even worse for heroic dungeons. I did 10 heroic dungeons the other day and literally got nothing but gold. The loot drop rates right now are the worst the game has seen since vanilla.

People like to lie and exaggerate on the internet.

This may seek shocking to you.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

The loot system now is atrocious. WF/TF was terrible but the loot drought we're in right now is even worse.

No it's not.

[TheRevenantHero]

People like to lie and exaggerate on the internet.

This may seek shocking to you.

Right right. Every single person talking about the same exact problem are all lying right? Lmao ok.

- - - Updated - - -

No it's not.

Riveting addition to the discussion.

[arkanon]

A service based game is not the same thing as a single player game. It’s an invalid comparison. If Super Mario Bros had a subscription fee and constant updates, this would be an interesting conversation... but it doesn’t... so why are we talking about difficulty settings for single player games that have a clear beginning and end?

No, dont start bringing in subscriptions and payment models into this - its me disagreeing with you assertion that not being one of the top 1% of a game makes it feel unrewarding and bad. Back your claim up then - with evidence other than "trust me, it feels bad and people dont like it". Because based on player participation in lower difficulties of content, you are entirely wrong, players LOVE lower difficulty content.

[NineSpine]

No, dont start bringing in subscriptions and payment models into this - its me disagreeing with you assertion that not being one of the top 1% of a game makes it feel unrewarding and bad. Back your claim up then - with evidence other than "trust me, it feels bad and people dont like it". Because based on player participation in lower difficulties of content, you are entirely wrong, players LOVE lower difficulty content.

If your argument is “but this other totally different thing works like that” then I don’t really need to counter it. It’s ridiculous on its face. Service based progression-focused games aren’t comparable to a simple single player game. I don’t need to back that up for the same reason I don’t need to explain why a dolphin isn’t a gorilla.

[Argorwal]

Right right. Every single person talking about the same exact problem are all lying right? Lmao ok.

- - - Updated - - -



Riveting addition to the discussion.

There being less loot isn’t a lie, obviously.

Spam stories of “people” running 20 dungeons and getting 0 loot? Those people tend to not link their armories...

[TheRevenantHero]

There being less loot isn’t a lie, obviously.

Spam stories of “people” running 20 dungeons and getting 0 loot? Those people tend to not link their armories...

I've experienced it as well. I did 10 heroic dungeons when trying to gear an alt and literally didn't even get ONE piece of gear.

[Argorwal]

I've experienced it as well. I did 10 heroic dungeons when trying to gear an alt and literally didn't even get ONE piece of gear.

This is a perfect example lol.

Heroic and mythic 0 loot drops were not changed in shadowlands.

Only mythic+ and raids.

[TheRevenantHero]

This is a perfect example lol.

Heroic and mythic 0 loot drops were not changed in shadowlands.

Only mythic+ and raids.

How is that a perfect example? Before Shadowlands, drop rates were NEVER this terrible in past expansions. The only way to get reliable gear is pvp which is absolutely horrendous game design.

[Stormwolf64]

Yeah, this was bound to happen. Nobody will ever be content with whatever blizz does.
Personally, I'm good without it. I like the loot system right now more than ever before.

"Nobody" yes, OP speaks for everyone.

[arkanon]

If your argument is “but this other totally different thing works like that” then I don’t really need to counter it. It’s ridiculous on its face. Service based progression-focused games aren’t comparable to a simple single player game. I don’t need to back that up for the same reason I don’t need to explain why a dolphin isn’t a gorilla.

No, they are 100% comparable in this context, you are grasping at straws and its embarrassing. You also entirely ignore my point about wow itself proving your assertion wrong - The very fact that low difficulty content has such a high participation rate makes it very clear that although you claim "people dont like it", you are wrong. People for the most part are absolutely fine with it, just like they are fine with playing other games on a lower difficulty even if it means they dont get the best stats or best looking gear.

All the deflection in the world wont save you - stop ignoring the facts and start addressing them.

Your comments are not based in reality;

People who go fishing still enjoy fishing even if they dont catch the biggest fish.
People who go climbing still enjoy climbing, even if its not Everest.
People who play football still enjoy football, even if they dont play in the NFL
People who are artists enjoy being artists, even if they are not world famous and rich.

These are hobbies (and potential professions, just like for some wow is), just like playing wow, and although you seem obsessed with the idea that people are unhappy in wow unless they are playing at the absolute highest difficulty, the proof is in the numbers - People enjoy LFR, Normal, and even Heroic, knowing full well better gear exists and one or more difficulties exist that are harder than what they are playing.

[Argorwal]

How is that a perfect example? Before Shadowlands, drop rates were NEVER this terrible in past expansions. The only way to get reliable gear is pvp which is absolutely horrendous game design.

You gave an example of not getting drops in 10 heroic dungeons.

The amount of loot that drops in a heroic dungeon has not changed in SL from BFA. It’s still 1 item per boss with a chance at 2.

10 dungeons is 40 bosses, with at worst a 1 in 5 chance at a drop (20%) and in expect me to believe you didn’t get a single item.

And remember, nothing has changed in SL for heroic and mythic 0 loot drop rates, so you pinning it in SL is funny.

A perfect example of people lying and exaggerating on the internet.

[NineSpine]

No, they are 100% comparable in this context, you are grasping at straws and its embarrassing. You also entirely ignore my point about wow itself proving your assertion wrong - The very fact that low difficulty content has such a high participation rate makes it very clear that although you claim "people dont like it", you are wrong. People for the most part are absolutely fine with it, just like they are fine with playing other games on a lower difficulty even if it means they dont get the best stats or best looking gear.

All the deflection in the world wont save you - stop ignoring the facts and start addressing them.

Do you think there is some chance that a simple single player games might provide a sense of completion when completing the game that a service based game, which doesn’t have an end, might not have built in? Do I seriously need to explain this to you? Why do needlessly argumentative?

[TheRevenantHero]

You gave an example of not getting drops in 10 heroic dungeons.

The amount of loot that drops in a heroic dungeon has not changed in SL from BFA. It’s still 1 item per boss with a chance at 2.

10 dungeons is 40 bosses, with at worst a 1 in 5 chance at a drop (20%) and in expect me to believe you didn’t get a single item.

And remember, nothing has changed in SL for heroic and mythic 0 loot drop rates, so you pinning it in SL is funny.

Ok well you clearly have no idea what you're talking about so I'm done responding to you. Loot drops were reduced in ALL content, which is why people like me are getting hit with zero loot drops in 10 heroic dungeons. Nothing but gold. But I guess you somehow know better about MY experience in the game. As a result, I'm done debating this with you.

[arkanon]

Do you think there is some chance that a simple single player games might provide a sense of completion when completing the game that a service based game, which doesn’t have an end, might not have built in? Do I seriously need to explain this to you? Why do needlessly argumentative?

Yes, you do. Because completing a raid is an accomplishment. But you have completely shot yourself in the foot here, as expected. Your claim is that Mythic raiders get that feeling, but people on lower difficulties dont, and they are unhappy about it. You have entirely contradicted yourself and proved my point for me.

ps - i love your "simple little single player games" addition - just trying to move those goalposts a little at a time. lol.

[Rozz]

I thought it was fun, but it lead to a valid issue whether you feel it was self-imposed or not. Enough of the community had an issue with it, so it's gonzo. At least we don't have to worry about loot rarity changing. Imagine if there was a 0.1% chance for every raid drop to become a legendary version of itself? What a shit show that would be.

[arkanon]

which is why people like me are getting hit with zero loot drops in 10 heroic dungeons.

Serious question, why on earth are you doing heroic dungeons? Im kinda interjecting in the conversation so i may have missed something.?

[TheRevenantHero]

Do you think there is some chance that a simple single player games might provide a sense of completion when completing the game that a service based game, which doesn’t have an end, might not have built in? Do I seriously need to explain this to you? Why do needlessly argumentative?

There's a reason I have them on ignore. There is no point in debating the issue with them. I agree with you that comparing single player games reward structures to an MMO is utterly asinine.