View Poll Results: What do you liked the most

Voters
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  • Warforging as in MoP (with valor upgrades)

    42 32.06%
  • Titanforging

    21 16.03%
  • I don't like both systems

    63 48.09%
  • Can't decide/don't know all options/don't want to vote

    5 3.82%
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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Am i the only one who thinks that Warforging was actually good, but Titanforging was a big piece of crap?

    Warforging as in MoP was actually a good system; it allowed you to get a tiny bit of an upgrade here and there. But then blizzard needed to go over the board and introduce Titanforging, making it a whole loot casino where you never could get best in slot!

    The biggest issue about Warforging was ironically solved in MoP itself when they introduced it, but later scapped because they wanted to be more of an games a la service (aka let's make it so that the loot carrot never can be reached)

    Now we have the other way around; not enough loot because if they increase the loot, too many people would too early be finished. So while i think Titanforging should not exist, Warforging should and blizzard should simply bring back Warforging with Valor Points for Valor gear and Valor upgrades, so that they can actually increase the loot drop chance a tiny bit everywhere. (and buying gear for valor points/honor also have a chance to be warforged)

    Only 2 upgrades as we had it in MoP, and you could always upgrade your gear with points, so that if only something non-warforged dropped, you never got a dut, you only needed to use your Valor Points to upgrade your gear.

    Is gear more rewarding now yes, but overall is the game so much less rewarding at all. Warforging could solve the issue, but NOT titanforging!
    I like the iteration of WF you describe, but never experienced it myself.
    However one of the nice aspects of titanforging is that it made lower tier content a little bit more relevant, so might i propose another variation?
    One where the same gear drops from all difficulties, but just less developed in terms of WF upgrades.
    Like the baseline item for a given raiding tier drops from raid finder, with a chance to warforge to i.e. normal level, and a normal level would warforge to heroic, heroic to mythic and mythic to mythic+1 level so to speak.

    That way you can keep a piece of gear as you progress through the difficulties, and needn't be dependant on luck alone to upgrade a piece. Naturally the price for upgrading rises steeply as its upgrade level rises, but you should also be able to strip a piece of gear of its upgrade to get part of the invested valor points back.
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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    The only time it was fine was in MoP, when you could upgrade the gear to match Thunderforged items later on. Granted I've always benefited from Titanforging, because I play so much.
    The ilevel upgrades were in addition to warforging, they weren't the same bucket of ilevels.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    Most of the comments against mop system are weird. An upgraded item was very rare compared to legion/bfa. The main point about mop system was the ability to upgrade the stuff you want with a currency you would obtain normally.
    Assuming you mean thunder/warforged, that's wrong. They were intentionally very common on 25man in order to incentivize people to run that over 10man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    I like the iteration of WF you describe, but never experienced it myself.
    However one of the nice aspects of titanforging is that it made lower tier content a little bit more relevant, so might i propose another variation?
    One where the same gear drops from all difficulties, but just less developed in terms of WF upgrades.
    Like the baseline item for a given raiding tier drops from raid finder, with a chance to warforge to i.e. normal level, and a normal level would warforge to heroic, heroic to mythic and mythic to mythic+1 level so to speak.

    That way you can keep a piece of gear as you progress through the difficulties, and needn't be dependant on luck alone to upgrade a piece. Naturally the price for upgrading rises steeply as its upgrade level rises, but you should also be able to strip a piece of gear of its upgrade to get part of the invested valor points back.
    It never existed. Valor upgrades and warforged ilevels weren't the same upgrades, you still had to loot a warforged item and then upgrade it with valor on top of that. Warforged items were just extremely common on 25man, because the original reason for even adding thunderforging/warforging was to incentivize running 25man without making it drop permanently better items.

    And I think your suggestion would only work if higher difficulties dropped significantly more currency and/or you needed to actually kill the boss on a higher difficulty in order to upgrade the item. As in, you loot the heroic Huntsman neck. Once you kill mythic Huntsman, you unlock the ability to upgrade any lower ilevel Huntsman neck to mythic ilevel.
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    The ilevel upgrades were in addition to warforging, they weren't the same bucket of ilevels.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Assuming you mean thunder/warforged, that's wrong. They were intentionally very common on 25man in order to incentivize people to run that over 10man.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It never existed. Valor upgrades and warforged ilevels weren't the same upgrades, you still had to loot a warforged item and then upgrade it with valor on top of that. Warforged items were just extremely common on 25man, because the original reason for even adding thunderforging/warforging was to incentivize running 25man without making it drop permanently better items.

    And I think your suggestion would only work if higher difficulties dropped significantly more currency and/or you needed to actually kill the boss on a higher difficulty in order to upgrade the item. As in, you loot the heroic Huntsman neck. Once you kill mythic Huntsman, you unlock the ability to upgrade any lower ilevel Huntsman neck to mythic ilevel.
    That'd be a fair addition to the system, though personally i prefer not to hard gate upgrades as it gives casual players something to work towards.
    Think of it like: If i kill a boss on mythic a couple of times and get an item i want in a week, and a casual gets his drop on raid finder in the same week, would it be so bad if he could upgrade said piece to rival mine after i.e. farming and saving up valor for a month? It's just one piece of gear after all; in the same timespan i would be able to collect many more and upgrade them far faster.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
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    Respect all, submit to none.

  4. #84
    Herald of the Titans Lora's Avatar
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    thunderforging was great!!!! warforging/titan forging wasnt!!!111oneoneone.

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  5. #85
    Random stat and random upgrade systes are bad. Gear should be gear, not bunch of random numbers. And BIS should be possible, as it's goad, that should be reachable. Otherwise it's pointless and game turns into arcade, where everything scales, difficulty is always the same and gear is just tool to climb to next difficulty level, not goal to reach. Yeah, some players like such concept. For example PVP players, who can play game just for the sake of playing. Diablo is also built around infinite grind. But not all players like this concept. For some players RPG = route from point A to point B. And point B should run away from you, like a carrot on a stick.

    This problem comes from simple fact, that devs can't provide enough content with good reward/effort ration. I.e. in the past it was taking about a week to grab all loot from 5ppl heroics. Blizzard thought, that such short content wasn't worth resources, invested into creating it. But their approach was completely wrong. What do we need at the end? We need new heroics with new tier of gear. Right? So, if adding new ones isn't possible, than may be we should scale existing ones and increase difficulty level according to it? And what was Blizzard approach? Skinner's chamber RNG-gating? No. It's BS. Total BS.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Am i the only one who thinks that Warforging was actually good, but Titanforging was a big piece of crap?

    Warforging as in MoP was actually a good system; it allowed you to get a tiny bit of an upgrade here and there. But then blizzard needed to go over the board and introduce Titanforging, making it a whole loot casino where you never could get best in slot!

    The biggest issue about Warforging was ironically solved in MoP itself when they introduced it, but later scapped because they wanted to be more of an games a la service (aka let's make it so that the loot carrot never can be reached)

    Now we have the other way around; not enough loot because if they increase the loot, too many people would too early be finished. So while i think Titanforging should not exist, Warforging should and blizzard should simply bring back Warforging with Valor Points for Valor gear and Valor upgrades, so that they can actually increase the loot drop chance a tiny bit everywhere. (and buying gear for valor points/honor also have a chance to be warforged)

    Only 2 upgrades as we had it in MoP, and you could always upgrade your gear with points, so that if only something non-warforged dropped, you never got a dut, you only needed to use your Valor Points to upgrade your gear.

    Is gear more rewarding now yes, but overall is the game so much less rewarding at all. Warforging could solve the issue, but NOT titanforging!
    So pretty much like the upgrade system we have with covenant/pvp gear upgrades with anima? That would be fine tbh also if reforge made a comeback, so much gear with wrong/weird stat combos this xpac

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    That'd be a fair addition to the system, though personally i prefer not to hard gate upgrades as it gives casual players something to work towards.
    Think of it like: If i kill a boss on mythic a couple of times and get an item i want in a week, and a casual gets his drop on raid finder in the same week, would it be so bad if he could upgrade said piece to rival mine after i.e. farming and saving up valor for a month? It's just one piece of gear after all; in the same timespan i would be able to collect many more and upgrade them far faster.
    I personally think it would be bad, but there's ways to handle that with more lenient unlocks(killing a boss unlocks upgrades up to the next level, mythic kill unlocks mythic+5) or tuning the currency acquisition per difficulty.
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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Crionics View Post
    Personally I loved the fact that I could rerun old content and there was a chance I could receive an upgrade. The odds of WF/TF were low enough that I didn't feel obligated to keep running because I most likely wasn't going to get a TF/WF drop, but if I felt like running the content it was a little bit of an incentive because while it was unlikely it was still possible to receive an upgrade even if you already had everything you needed from a raid.
    I think my bigger problem with the system is that it made M+ feel like something you had to do a TON. Especially when you added Azerite Traits, and then later when you had corruption.

    I like M+ well enough to spend an evening a week on it, but not enough to want to spam it. I'm spending one night a week on it right now. I get 3-4 dungeons in and get my chest filled. I might fill out a few more over the course of the week but as long as I get 1 10+ key, I feel like I've done my job there. With the constant chance of an upgrade in previous expansions, especially with the chance for BIG upgrades due to titanforging or Corruption effects, I felt like it was mandatory and it really turned me off.

    But I do see the point you're making. I wouldn't mind adding Titanforging to previous tiers as new tiers come out, something to keep them relevant but not mandatory. Allow the ilvl to be like 1/2 between tiers so if you want to gear some people in the previous tier, you get a chance to bring them a bit closer to current stuff.

    I don't know, just noodling that idea.

  9. #89
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    I'll take upgrade levels that I can control, thanks.
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  10. #90
    Would rather only one skinner box and have loot just be loot.

  11. #91
    Please be aware that if you reintroduce either system you cannot get BiS - which is what most people want.

  12. #92
    what about warforging x2 were you got a slim chance to get your warforged to warforge so your item is double warforged. Also, the warforge will randomly pick stats on each warforge to make it even more interesting. So you might be lucky and get a warforge proc, but it has shit stats so better come back next week.

  13. #93
    Loot dropped by a certain difficulty level should be strong enough to do its job: help you finish this difficulty level and move on to the next one, while making prior content easier.

    Valor warforge like in WOD/MOP is a progressive nerf system. It's redundant unless Blizz stops doing progressive nerfs to bosses.
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  14. #94
    Titanforging was bad for the 0.1% of top-end hardcores but good for the bottom 80%. Of course the bottom 80% don't have community figures speaking for them so Blizzard makes design decision based on Asmongold's and Preach's "feedback", both of whom not only lack a degree in game design, but probably a degree in higher education altogether.

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