Professor Johnston often said that if you didn't know history, you didn't know anything. You were a leaf that didn't know it was part of a tree. ~Michael Crichton, Timeline
Nobody is blaming them for the things they did as Scourge. The thing is that they did not change their methods AFTER regaining their free will. They experiment on humans, raise them into their own tortured existence, cut up the bodies to make Abominations, mass murder the living with Blight... their actions are just as disgusting as they were when they were Scourge.
Their action are in fact so vile that Sylvanas knew she had to hide them from the Horde or be kicked out.
So the point is not that they are blamed for their past and thus denied land. The point is that they have DECIDED to be evil monsters and no one is safe when they are left running around. Even worse, most of the few decent ones among them were killed by Sylvanas at Arathi.
True but in this world we kick those people out of their land and kill them for their crimes. Like Blackmoore. By your logic we were wrong to attack Argus, because it was "rightfully" the property of the Legion.
No, it belongs to the humans because it was human kingdom under Terenas Menethil. Just because the Forsaken took advantage of the Scourge and murdered the last remaining humans under Garithos and then some of the farmers and other innocents, does not mean their claim to the land is legitimate and their actions after taking it only proved that no one should tolerate them there.
Sure, the trauma had something to do with it. But it's no excuse for all the atrocities they commited. Undead like the Ebon Blade have not become mass murderers after they got their free will back. People like Alonsus Faol even chose to remain a Priest of the Light...
You have it backwards. The Forsaken murdered humans before Stormwind even knew they exist as a group. And since Sylvanas purposefully did not go herself to explain the situation and instead chose to send people that to ANYONE that lived through the Scourge has to look like just a leftover ghoul... The result was clear.
Last edited by Raisei; 2021-03-13 at 02:02 PM.
Actually, it is up for discussion. One, because you posted here in a public forum; and two, because not everyone agrees with you.
Are you looking for an echo chamber, perhaps?
Anyways. The forsaken (well, the Horde as a whole, actually, but we're talking specifically about the forsaken here) were the aggressors. So by realistic standards, they have to pay reparations in terms of loss of territory or resources. Or both. Because that is the result when you lose a war that you started. That's kind of like a police officer catching a thief in the act as he's trying to abscond with a TV from the house he just broke into, and instead of arresting the thief, the officer just lets him go.
But, since this is a game, realistic standards can't always be applied and there needs to be some modicum of equity, so technically if one player faction gains something, the other has to gain something as well. Which is why we would never have a race defect one faction for the other, like it was teased back in MoP with the blood elves wanting to leave the Horde, or have one faction gain a new race in a new expansion while the other gets nothing, for example.
Hey now you still have Silverpine
Do you hear the voices too?
See this is a big problem with these dumb faction war storylines. Since both sides are playable, it has to be fair. No no no, fuck that. War isn't fair. Especially if you start the war and then lose to the enemy. The orcs were put into internment camps for less. And it is always them. Always orcs or undead. Gul'dan, Ner'Zhul, Garrosh, Putress (if we honestly believe Sylvanas wasn't in on it) or Sylvanas herself.
Well after they bombarded Darnassus they lost that right in my eyes.
The Forsaken have been the enemy of the human kingdoms for many years, guilty of many crimes against them. Just like the Legion, only at a smaller scale. So there is no crisis of morality when we take over their land. Good to see you agree.
I am not saying they are not killing. But they are not murdering farmers to steal their land, then bury them as human saplings, or abuse them for experiments. They are not blighting cities to take them from their rightful owners. The Ebon Blade has been in the buisness of defending the planet from the Lich King, the Legion and now the forces of Death.
You are literally mentioning it yourself. Or did Garithos entire army commit suicide? No, they were slaughtered by the Forsaken when Sylvanas did not want to uphold her deal with him. Hundreds of Humans and Dwarfs murdered, before SW ever heard the term "Forsaken".
According to the deal Sylvanas herself struck, Lordaeron belonged to the remnants of the kingdom lead by Garithos. Her betrayal of the deal only makes it more obvious that the land never legitimately belong to her.
Considering she can "banshee out" whenever she wants, I'd say the threat to her was small. But even then, sending a ghoul was making sure that it would fail.
Yeah I mean if you consider warcrimes like murdering civilians and experimenting on them as normal and fine then sure. Guess I should not have assumed a Horde defender to have a normal viewpoint, ever. My mistake.
See above. Guess defending the Forsaken means one has to somehow ignore their crimes or relativate them to make it somehow acceptable.
There exists not a shred of proof for this. On the other hand we know Sylvanas was gonna betray the humans from the moment she made the deal. But hey, everything is fair game to defend those walking murdering corpses right?
Again you are making up evidence to support your point. We never heard any plan of Garithos to betray the Forsaken, we only know of one planned betrayal. Pure and simple.
Uhm, no. The Bansheeing was always part of her powers because she IS a Banshee possessing a corpse (her own).
Oh it wasn't dumb. It wa calculated. Her clout over the Forsaken only works as long as they are not accepted by others. So she used the fears of the human empire to generate "proof" that the Forsaken could only ever turn to her.