Korthia and Tyrande

[username993720]

"The name Korthia may be a reference to Kur, the ancient Mesopotamian underworld for the Sumerian and Akkadian peoples."
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Korthia#Notes_and_trivia

Tyrande draws inspiration from Enheduanna, a Sumerian Priestess of the Moon:
"Enheduanna is the earliest known poet whose name has been recorded. She was the High Priestess of the goddess Inanna and the moon god Nanna (Sin). She lived in the Sumerian city-state of Ur."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enheduanna

Do you think we'll see more of her in patch 9.1, at the city of Korthia and, perhaps, more of Elune?

Interesting tidbits about Kur:

"Unlike many other afterlives of the ancient world, in the Sumerian underworld, there was no final judgement of the deceased and the dead were neither punished nor rewarded for their deeds in life." - essentially, what Sylvanas is striving for.

"The ruler of the underworld was the goddess Ereshkigal, who lived in the palace Ganzir, sometimes used as a name for the underworld itself. During the Akkadian Period (c. 2334 – 2154 BC), Ereshkigal's role as the ruler of the underworld was assigned to Nergal, the god of death. The Akkadians attempted to harmonize this dual rulership of the underworld by making Nergal Ereshkigal's husband. Nergal is the deity most often identified as Ereshkigal's husband. He was also associated with forest fires (and identified with the fire-god, Gibil), fevers, plagues, and war. In myths, he causes destruction and devastation." - this could be the case for Zovaal and the Arbiter. She might have been the ruler of the Maw, before the Jailer was.

"The god Namtar acts as Ereshkigal's sukkal, or divine attendant." - we have a race of attendants in Oribos, taking care of the Arbiter.

"The underworld was believed to have seven gates, through which a soul needed to pass." - how many gates are in Oribos?

"Dumuzid, later known by the corrupted form Tammuz, is the ancient Mesopotamian god of shepherds and the primary consort of the goddess Inanna. His sister is the goddess Geshtinanna. In addition to being the god of shepherds, Dumuzid was also an agricultural deity associated with the growth of plants. Ancient Near Eastern peoples associated Dumuzid with the springtime, when the land was fertile and abundant, but, during the summer months, when the land was dry and barren, it was thought that Dumuzid had 'died'. Geshtinanna is a rural agricultural goddess sometimes associated with dream interpretation. She is the sister of Dumuzid, the god of shepherds. Inanna decrees that he and Geshtinanna will alternate places every six months, each spending half the year in the underworld while the other stays in Heaven. While she is in the underworld, Geshtinanna serves as Ereshkigal's scribe." - i thought it might have been the case for Zovaal and the Arbiter, but they aren't the rulers. Maybe, something that has to do with the Winter Queen and her sister.

"The ancient Mesopotamians also believed that the underworld was home to many demons, which are sometimes referred to as 'offspring of arali'. These demons could sometimes leave the underworld and terrorize mortals on earth. One class of demons that were believed to reside in the underworld were known as galla; their primary purpose appears to have been to drag unfortunate mortals back to Kur. They are frequently referenced in magical texts, and some texts describe them as being seven in number." - we know that the Dreadlords are going to make an appearance in Korthia and that we're gonna learn more about them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anci...ian_underworld

[shoc]

When Blizzard adapts real-world mythologies into Warcraft they are much more explicit about it. Odin = Odyn, Thor = Thorim, Hel = Helheim, and so on. I don't see a connection other than Korthia and Kur both start with the letter K.

[Kiivar86]

Korthia doesn't really strike me as a Kur reference, aside from both starting with K and having an R in it.

If anything the name feels like an attempt to sound Greek (edit: actually French I guess? Since I was thinking of Corsica and Corsica is French, though given the long history in the Mediterranean, could be any number of things)

how many gates are in Oribos?

You mean the Flightpath ones?

Eight.

[huth]

Korthia is described as the City of Secrets - that doesn't really strike me as a reference to Kur.

Enheduanna is a poor match for Tyrande as well. You're gonna have to come up with something a little more elaborate than "they were both priestesses for a moon goddess".

The rest is irrelevant. In any sufficiently long history, you're going to find some matches.

[Myradin]

Korthia doesn't really strike me as a Kur reference, aside from both starting with K and having an R in it.

If anything the name feels like an attempt to sound Greek (edit: actually French I guess? Since I was thinking of Corsica and Corsica is French, though given the long history in the Mediterranean, could be any number of things)



You mean the Flightpath ones?

Eight.

Actually given how oribos is mirrored, there's 16. There's a whole lower portion of oribos we havent been to.

[username993720]

When Blizzard adapts real-world mythologies into Warcraft they are much more explicit about it. Odin = Odyn, Thor = Thorim, Hel = Helheim, and so on. I don't see a connection other than Korthia and Kur both start with the letter K.

Not necessarily.
Aman'thul doesn't sound like Zeus. Eonar doesn't sound like Demeter and Halls of Valor isn't pronounced like Valhalla.
Besides, i didn't come up with that. Someone on Wowpedia did. I just bring it to attention to evoke speculation.

Korthia doesn't really strike me as a Kur reference, aside from both starting with K and having an R in it.

If anything the name feels like an attempt to sound Greek (edit: actually French I guess? Since I was thinking of Corsica and Corsica is French, though given the long history in the Mediterranean, could be any number of things)



You mean the Flightpath ones?

Eight.

Bummer. I thought the number of gates would match those of the mythology.
I even thought that the number of demons there (7) could match the number of known Dreadlords in Warcraft III. But, alas, there are 8 of them. I guess 7 is just a symbolic number.

Korthia is described as the City of Secrets - that doesn't really strike me as a reference to Kur.

Enheduanna is a poor match for Tyrande as well. You're gonna have to come up with something a little more elaborate than "they were both priestesses for a moon goddess".

The rest is irrelevant. In any sufficiently long history, you're going to find some matches.

Have you considered Tyrande's exotic accent?
If you know of any other real-life moon priestesses, please do enlighten me.

I'm aware that i forced those comparisons.
I did it just in case that it is, indeed, a reference to Kur.

O and U are rather replacable in many languages including English which is the language of the authors of the game.

Honestly this sounds quite believable.

That would make it Kur-thia, which would align well.

[username993720]

Some interesting things i found about the moon god:

"An important Sumerian text ('Enlil and Ninlil') tells of the descent of Enlil and Ninlil, pregnant with Nanna/Sin, into the underworld. There, three 'substitutions' are given to allow the ascent of Nanna/Sin." - So, there is a connection between the Sumerian moon god and the underworld. If we take it in Warcraft terms, maybe Elune was born in the Shadowlands, from the First Ones, and ascended into a goddess. Let's not forget Xal'atath's whispers: "My mistake. It seems the upstart 'goddess' still holds sway here. Oh well..."/"I do so enjoy seeing the shrine of a great enemy profaned by the spirits of its own worshippers." She is referring to Elune. 'Upstart' means "a layman risen to greatness". According to the Three Sisters comic we know that the Void considers Death an enemy.

"It was at Ur that the role of the En-Priestess developed. This was an extremely powerful role held by a princess, most notably Enheduanna, daughter of King Sargon of Akkad, and was the primary cult role associated with the cult of Nanna/Sin.
The cult of the moon-god spread to other centers, so that temples to him are found in all the large cities of Babylonia and Assyria." - In Warcraft terms, that would be the equivalent of the Sisterhood of Elune, temples of the Moon/Elune and Tyrande as high priestess.

[shoc]

Not necessarily.
Aman'thul doesn't sound like Zeus. Eonar doesn't sound like Demeter and Halls of Valor isn't pronounced like Valhalla.
Besides, i didn't come up with that. Someone on Wowpedia did. I just bring it to attention to evoke speculation.



Bummer. I thought the number of gates would match those of the mythology.
I even thought that the number of demons there (7) could match the number of known Dreadlords in Warcraft III. But, alas, there are 8 of them. I guess 7 is just a symbolic number.



Have you considered Tyrande's exotic accent?
If you know of any other real-life moon priestesses, please do enlighten me.

I'm aware that i forced those comparisons.
I did it just in case that it is, indeed, a reference to Kur.

Aman'thul sounds just like Zeus - Zeus Ammon is how the Egyptian God Amun-Ra came to be known in Ancient Greece.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amun

Halls of Valor are also called Valhalas or Valhallas by the Vrykul.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Halls_of_Valor

Eonar doesn't sound like Demeter/Ceres in name but is practically identical in role (consort to Zeus and Harvest/Life Goddess) and in appearance. Eonar is most likely based in name and appearance off of Eoster, the Germanic Goddess of the Dawn and Spring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%92ostre

[username993720]

Aman'thul sounds just like Zeus - Zeus Ammon is how the Egyptian God Amun-Ra came to be known in Ancient Greece.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amun

Halls of Valor are also called Valhalas or Valhallas by the Vrykul.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Halls_of_Valor

Eonar doesn't sound like Demeter/Ceres in name but is practically identical in role (consort to Zeus and Harvest/Life Goddess) and in appearance. Eonar is most likely based in name and appearance off of Eoster, the Germanic Goddess of the Dawn and Spring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%92ostre

Well, they didn't base his looks on the egyptian god, that's for sure. He has gotten the greatfather winter treatment.

Thanks for informing me. Didn't notice that about the Vrykul.

If Eonar is practically identical in role, but not in name, can't Korthia fill the role of a non-judgmental afterlife without matching in name?

[huth]

Have you considered Tyrande's exotic accent?
If you know of any other real-life moon priestesses, please do enlighten me.

I'm aware that i forced those comparisons.
I did it just in case that it is, indeed, a reference to Kur.

That's ambigous at best. As for real life moon priestesses... any priestess to any of the various moon gods? There's been multiple on every continent safe for Antarctica, and that's only because nobody lived there until they built research stations.
On that note, the Inka moon goddess was actually called "Mother Moon".

Them being forced is itself the problem. Whether Korthia is a Kur reference is rather irrelevant to it.

- - - Updated - - -

O and U are rather replacable in many languages including English which is the language of the authors of the game.

Honestly this sounds quite believable.

More oo than o. Besides, Korthia sounds quite a bit different than Kur, and Blizzard tends to go for similar sounding names if they do that, so you'd expect Koor or Kyr or something.

[Ielenia]

Not necessarily.
Aman'thul doesn't sound like Zeus. Eonar doesn't sound like Demeter and Halls of Valor isn't pronounced like Valhalla.
Besides, i didn't come up with that. Someone on Wowpedia did. I just bring it to attention to evoke speculation.

There are mentions of Valhalla in Stormheim, and there's one item offered by Odyn: "Grand Feast of Valhalla"

[username993720]

That's ambigous at best. As for real life moon priestesses... any priestess to any of the various moon gods? There's been multiple on every continent safe for Antarctica, and that's only because nobody lived there until they built research stations.
On that note, the Inka moon goddess was actually called "Mother Moon".

Them being forced is itself the problem. Whether Korthia is a Kur reference is rather irrelevant to it.

I would compare the Incan belief to the Lun'alai, since the Zandalari are based on Aztec/Mayan/Incan cultures, alongside african ones:

"It is heavily implied that the matron they worship is Elune."

How is that a problem? that could reveal the nature of the zone and where the storyline is going.

There are mentions of Valhalla in Stormheim, and there's one item offered by Odyn: "Grand Feast of Valhalla"

Yes. Choom has already clarified that.

[huth]

There are mentions of Valhalla in Stormheim, and there's one item offered by Odyn: "Grand Feast of Valhalla"

It's made clear in no uncertain terms that Valhallas is what the Vrykul call the place.

So yeah, it's not just "pronounced like Valhalla", it's pretty much literally called that. Although the meaning is somewhat different, since Valhalla is more accurately translated as Halls of the Slain rather than Valour.

Eonar is probably kitbashed from Demeter and Gaia, and it's notable that none of the Titans share a name with greek gods or their roman copies, though that might simply be because they got their names before Blizzard decided on the theme.

- - - Updated - - -

I would compare the Incan belief to the Lun'alai, since the Zandalari are based on Aztec/Mayan/Incan cultures, alongside african ones:

"It is heavily implied that the matron they worship is Elune."

How is that a problem? that could reveal the nature of the zone and where the storyline is going.

You're jumping to conclusions without any actual evidence when we know next to nothing about the place beyond a name.

And it's a problem because they're forced comparisons. You can find overlap in any sufficiently long history. That doesn't mean anything whatsoever, nor does it reveal much of anything other than that any sufficiently long history is going to have some overlap.

[shoc]

Well, they didn't base his looks on the egyptian god, that's for sure. He has gotten the greatfather winter treatment.

Thanks for informing me. Didn't notice that about the Vrykul.

If Eonar is practically identical in role, but not in name, can't Korthia fill the role of a non-judgmental afterlife without matching in name?

Well, considering that Zeus, in all his bearded grandfatherlyness, is still descended from the myth of Amun-Ra, to the point of being known as Zeus Ammon or Ammon-Zeus, the similarity between Aman'Thul and Ammon-Zeus is pretty hard to deny. The point is that they are both the 'King of the Gods'.

Eoster and Eonar are basically 1:1 identical in name, form and function too.

My point is that Blizzard is not subtle with mythological references, and if it requires a stretch of imagination then it probably isn't the case in WoW.

[username993720]

You're jumping to conclusions without any actual evidence when we know next to nothing about the place beyond a name.

And it's a problem because they're forced comparisons. You can find overlap in any sufficiently long history. That doesn't mean anything whatsoever, nor does it reveal much of anything other than that any sufficiently long history is going to have some overlap.

Welcome to the world of speculation. That's what we do here. I'm in no way declaring any of it as objective truth. It would just be fun to come up with information about the zone before it pops up on the PTR.

My point is that Blizzard is not subtle with mythological references, and if it requires a stretch of imagination then it probably isn't the case in WoW.

Well, we only have the name, as of right now.
We don't have enough visuals of the place or the story there to rule it out.

[huth]

Welcome to the world of speculation. That's what we do here. I'm in no way declaring any of it as objective truth. It would just be fun to come up with information about the zone before it pops up on the PTR.

Speculation generally has at least some basis in reality. What you're doing here doesn't. This is world of random guessing and making shit up.

[username993720]

Speculation generally has at least some basis in reality. What you're doing here doesn't. This is world of random guessing and making shit up.

I didn't make anything up.
It is a possibility suggested by the Korthia Wowpedia page.
I just elaborated on it and suggested a potential connection to Tyrande, should it be true.

[huth]

I didn't make anything up.
It is a possibility suggested by the Korthia Wowpedia page.
I just elaborated on it and suggested a potential connection to Tyrande, should it be true.

You took a random comment made by someone. Then you added random guessing of your own. Net result is still random guessing.

[username993720]

You took a random comment made by someone. Then you added random guessing of your own. Net result is still random guessing.

*sigh*
Maybe instead of devaluing the thread, suggest some directions it could go?

[shoc]

If it were to play out in Warcraft, given the precedent set by the integration of dozens of real-world mythologies up to this point, the Sumerians would be called Sumorians and Kur would be called Khur. That's how Blizzard adapts mythologies.

Here's another example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigong
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Lei_Shen

Leigong, also known as Leishen, is the god of thunder in Chinese folk religion, Chinese mythology and Taoism. Of course in WoW we get Lei Shen, the Thunder King. Once again, the adaptation process minimally altered the name of Leishen and didn't undermine his function.

Likewise the August Celestials are the Chinese Four Symbols: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Symbols

They are the Black Tortoise of the North, Azure Dragon of the East, Vermilion Bird of the South and White Tiger of the West.
In the Warcraft adaptation, 3/4 of them are copied directly while the Black Tortoise is instead the Black Ox. It is an extremely literal translation of the mythology into Warcraft.

If it isn't a painfully obvious and transparent reference, it probably isn't one.