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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Ignoring the rest of your whataboutism, because it's frankly not worth the time of day, Russians complaining about Ukraine allegedly not complying with some treaty is IRONIC AS FUCK, considering how Russia shit on the Budapest Memorandum and pretty much every single other treaty Russia has signed up to in the past 70 years.
    Budapest memorandum was signed by Russia, UK, and US. None of them came up to defend it in this situation. Also got to note that memorandum isn't treaty - it is more of "note of intent", not certified by any relevant bodies to make it binding.

    Minsk agreement was signed by Ukraine in consultations with Germany and France to create framework for re-integration of Donetsk and Luhansk back into Ukraine - and Russia leaving. Many years passed, Ukraine failed to pass any agreed upon laws to that end.

    As for "every other treaty" - got to see examples. Plenty of treaties held up.

    Russia is threatening invasion pre-emptively, if Ukraine breaks some agreement that it was coerced into by a previous invasion that broke an existing treaty.
    Where do you see Russia threatening invasion? Can you show me Russian rather then Ukrainian claims to that end?

    Is NATO threatening invasion every time it does exercises on Baltic borders?
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2021-04-14 at 04:55 PM.

  2. #42
    Shalcker and Waffles just never stops , do they? In the meantime the course of rouble keeps falling. Tankies should ask actual Russians how they like that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    How exactly do you suppose Russia should react to Ukrainians increasing readiness of their forces, moving equipment to front lines, and giving every indication of preparing for military action?

    Getting your own forces to the border seems like perfectly symmetric response that might prevent loss of life.
    Let me guess, fucking off? It is very simple. On a more serious note - those "republics" exist only because Russia wills it. Russia can ensure Ukraine is made whole again, without war. It IS up to Moscow, not Kiev. Since Moscow does not do it, we are rightfully blaming it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Those troops are in their own country.

    People in Donetsk/Luhansk right now aren't Russians, it's locals.
    They literally ARE mostly ethnic Russians. Now, due to Tsar feeling generous, lot of them have Russia's passports as well, which was an obviously calculated move to "protect our citizens" in the future.


    Tell me, Shalcker/Waffles, are you one of those screaming on Lost Armour/Youtube/other places that the pictures/videos of destroyed T-72BA's and B3's were totally not Russian but fakes from Ukraine and Russian forces were never entered it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Budapest memorandum was signed by Russia, UK, and US. None of them came up to defend it in this situation. Also got to note that memorandum isn't treaty - it is more of "note of intent", not certified by any relevant bodies to make it binding.
    We broke a treaty, the other signatories didn't start WW3 in retaliation. All sides are equally bad- You've heard it hear folks.

    Also a major difference between Russian exercises and NATO exercises is the messaging. Russia is messaging it's ability to attack, NATO is messaging its ability to defend.

    Equally bad, clearly.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Shalcker and Waffles just never stops , do they? In the meantime the course of rouble keeps falling. Tankies should ask actual Russians how they like that...
    Actually today was unprecedented rise of rouble, whopping 1.87% gain in a day vs USD (1.4% vs Euro), basically negating entire fall from start of the month.

    Russians don't buy that many things priced in USD anyway.

    Let me guess, fucking off? It is very simple. On a more serious note - those "republics" exist only because Russia wills it. Russia can ensure Ukraine is made whole again, without war. It IS up to Moscow, not Kiev. Since Moscow does not do it, we are rightfully blaming it.
    It is up to Kiev for it to be made whole without war. By proving that they are capable of following agreements that would avoid creating another hotspot and another cycle of violence. Which they so far failed.

    They literally ARE mostly ethnic Russians. Now, due to Tsar feeling generous, lot of them have Russia's passports as well, which was an obviously calculated move to "protect our citizens" in the future.
    What exactly do you mean by "ethnic Russians" there?
    Do you suppose it's ethnic conflict between Russians and Ukrainians rather then state-level conflict between Russia and Ukraine?

    Tell me, Shalcker/Waffles, are you one of those screaming on Lost Armour/Youtube/other places that the pictures/videos of destroyed T-72BA's and B3's were totally not Russian but fakes from Ukraine and Russian forces were never entered it?
    Russian forces most definitely were there at times.

    They are also not constantly present there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    We broke a treaty, the other signatories didn't start WW3 in retaliation. All sides are equally bad- You've heard it hear folks.
    There was no treaty.

    Also a major difference between Russian exercises and NATO exercises is the messaging. Russia is messaging it's ability to attack, NATO is messaging its ability to defend.
    It's same message. Russia is messaging ability to defend those it considers worth defending. Like separatist republics.

  5. #45
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    For someone who likes to absolutely take a giant shit all over US interventionism (not even invasion, just interventionism) Shalcker certainly has ten billion excuses when it comes to Russia invading foreign soil for the sake of making it a part of Russia.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
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    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    So this is one of 2 things.

    1. Putin actually wants to start a fight in Ukraine, starting a war to distract from domestic issues.
    2. Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2, using constant threats of war and military action as a form of communication with his neighbors.

    Honestly. Don't know which is worse.
    It's most likely #1, Putin is no idiot he knows a full invasion would unleash a shit storm he is probably hoping to push it enough for a PR clean up.

  7. #47
    Another Russian thread, another circlejerk by the local Russophobes.

    Cue Jack's complete lack of surprise

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashnazg View Post
    Another Russian thread, another circlejerk by the local Russophobes.

    Cue Jack's complete lack of surprise
    Well, the Russian government does like to murder some folk.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Well, the Russian government does like to murder some folk.
    Don't you mean "accidents"

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Don't you mean "accidents"
    It's weird how many Russians toss themselves out of windows after criticizing Putin.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    For someone who likes to absolutely take a giant shit all over US interventionism (not even invasion, just interventionism) Shalcker certainly has ten billion excuses when it comes to Russia invading foreign soil for the sake of making it a part of Russia.
    There were plenty of opportunities to make Donbass part of Russia. It didn't happen, and there is nothing that changed internally in Russia to make it suddenly necessary.

    There are internal changes in Ukraine though - like illegal shutdowns of oppositional TV channels. Blaming everything on Russia is typical Ukrainian playbook, as does increasing tensions to probe for support from new US administration.

  12. #52
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Ukraine is the poster child for why you should never give up your nuclear weapons....
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Ukraine is the poster child for why you should never give up your nuclear weapons....
    They never had an option of keeping them though.

  14. #54
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    They never had an option of keeping them though.
    Oh they could have kept them. They SHOULD have kept them.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    There were plenty of opportunities to make Donbass part of Russia. It didn't happen, and there is nothing that changed internally in Russia to make it suddenly necessary.

    There are internal changes in Ukraine though - like illegal shutdowns of oppositional TV channels. Blaming everything on Russia is typical Ukrainian playbook, as does increasing tensions to probe for support from new US administration.
    Why would Russia take Donbass though? it's already a buffer without the expenditure on infrastructure and services, Russia can fan the flames through it at any given moment and maintain a conflict and prevent Ukraine from ever joining NATO, but you seem to continue to justify it and portray Russia as the good guys, you're ridiculous buddy.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Oh they could have kept them. They SHOULD have kept them.
    Noone was willing to roll a dice on how well Ukraine could control and maintain nukes. Given their history it was more then reasonable caution - noone wanted those nukes to end up on black market. And if they didn't comply they would also get sanctioned.

    So it's hard to imagine world where Ukraine could have kept them - and then actually use them as deterrent 20 years later rather then them ending up in scrap pile like the rest of their military.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kante View Post
    Why would Russia take Donbass though? it's already a buffer without the expenditure on infrastructure and services, Russia can fan the flames through it at any given moment and maintain a conflict and prevent Ukraine from ever joining NATO, but you seem to continue to justify it and portray Russia as the good guys, you're ridiculous buddy.
    Ukraine also can fan the flames at any given moment and beg for NATO roadmap/more US support to "stop Russian aggression". And did.

    Where did you see me "portray Russia as the good guys"? "Justified" doesn't mean "good".

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Ukraine also can fan the flames at any given moment and beg for NATO roadmap/more US support to "stop Russian aggression". And did.

    Where did you see me "portray Russia as the good guys"?
    Every time you post, you push Russia as the good guys, you literally defend them like it is your job........ Wait a minute :P

  18. #58
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Noone was willing to roll a dice on how well Ukraine could control and maintain nukes. Given their history it was more then reasonable caution - noone wanted those nukes to end up on black market. And if they didn't comply they would also get sanctioned.

    So it's hard to imagine world where Ukraine could have kept them - and then actually use them as deterrent 20 years later.
    Ukraine is no less trustworthy than Russia.

    Yes, I am sure you cannot imagine Russia actually having to respect Ukrainian territorial integrity.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Ukraine is no less trustworthy than Russia.
    I disagree.

    They had better starting point then pretty much any other former Soviet republics, and ended up poorest.

    Yes, I am sure you cannot imagine Russia actually having to respect Ukrainian territorial integrity.
    Just like it's hard to imagine US respecting Serbian territorial integrity.

  20. #60
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I disagree.

    They had better starting point then pretty much any other former Soviet republics, and ended up poorest.

    Just like it's hard to imagine US respecting Serbian territorial integrity.
    You are right, I trust Ukraine far more than I trust Russia.

    Hmm... I was not aware the US annexed part of Serbia.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

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