What was Anduin and Tyrande's "strategy" in the last war? Did they have no strategy?

[OwenBurton]

Anduin wanted to attack Zandalar to destabilize their relations with the Horde - but this doesn't make much sense. The Zandalari are a very ancient culture - with an extremely proud sense of heritage, and they are very unlikely to surrender to a young human king. What did he expect by killing Rastakhan but to immediately drive the Zandalari closer into the Horde's arms?

- He also sacrificed the lives of Blademaster Telaamon, and battalions of at least several hundred humans, Gilneans, dwarves, void elves and even night elves (whose population is already all but extinct) for his diversion, and Jaina Proudmoore and Gelbin Mekkatorque were nearly killed as well.

- Zandalar had NOT directly attacked Kul Tiras or the Alliance nations. Anduin imprisoned Talanji without attempting to negotiate with them. And then instead of reasoning with Rastakhan - sending him messages, perhaps, via Valeera or some of his spies, begging him to remain neutral, perhaps - he openly attacked his homeland, massacring his people without hesitation, and then killed him.

Tyrande's reasoning was also difficult to understand.

- Darkshore is a fairly narrow and geographically isolated region, with fairly limited natural resources. The kaldorei had previously little interest in Darkshore, compared with Ashenvale and Hyjal. Other than Bashal'Aran - itself a ruined Highborne city until very recently - it had no other major settlements other than Lor'danel. Presumably, the Horde had not attacked Nordrassil (there were still druids there, as some quests showed). So the night elves still had another place to call home. Not to mention Val'sharah, the Eastern Kingdoms, Pandaria with the Tushui Pandaren, and possibly Feralas. But - Tyrande ignored all this. And focused solely on Darkshore of all places. Without any clear explanation. Even if she did want to fight the Horde - why not in Ashenvale, much larger, strategically located, with far greater numbers of defensible settlements, and resource-abundant, closer to Hyjal, the Barrens, and Orgrimmar?
- Most of the night elves in Darkshore were gone, having escaped or been killed. Lor'danel and Auberdine were already destroyed. So Tyrande's intervention could not stop that anyway. If Anduin promised to reclaim these settlements later on, perhaps after Stromgarde is captured - why is that a horrible idea? Would waiting several months, or even a year have made that much difference? Like, it's horrible for the night elves that their moonwells were blighted, for example...but they could always easily make new ones, like that Suramar quests with Val'sharah refugees shows.
- Tyrande refused to coordinate with Shandris, Maiev or even the other Alliance leaders (she was not even present at the Warfront - it was Maiev who reclaimed Darkshore for their people).
- Tyrande's Battle for Darkshore forced Genn Greymane to devote and divert most of his people and resources from the Eastern Kingdoms and other places to fighting there - including his daughter Tess Greymane, further dividing and weakening the Alliance on several fronts.
- Tyrande and the night elves, sending Malfurion, Shandris, Maiev, Jarod, and their other forces, could have helped win the Battle for Stromgarde much earlier on, perhaps even defeat the Forsaken in the Eastern Kingdoms - instead of focusing on a single and not easily defensible region in a continent overwhelmingly dominated by the Horde.
- Tyrande's winning the Battle for Darkshore (which apparently happened after Sylvanas fled Orgrimmar) did almost nothing to really weaken the Horde's presence elsewhere in Kalimdor.
- Tyrande did not NEED to perform the Night Warrior ritual. She and the night elves had survived and won countless wars before that. The Alliance after winning Stromgarde could have helped her anyway - without her putting herself and others at such terrible risk. And she was still very powerful without Elune's most dangerous power. Now she seems estranged from the Alliance (partly), and she is probably going to die. And as she lost against Sylvanas recently, it's not like it's really helping her avenge her people.
- Tyrande eagerly showed up for Anduin's gift of the Kul Tiran vessel from Jaina - but shortly afterwards refused to appear in the Battle before the Gates of Orgrimmar, openly ignoring Anduin and other Alliance leaders when they needed her assistance and support the most, when the war was nearly at its most dangerous stage. She could have helped them significantly, and personally confronted Sylvanas - perhaps even fought her directly, and with Malfurion's help, possibly matching or even defeating her. But again, of course, neither she nor her beloved husband appeared to bother doing so. And thus, Sylvanas escaped - and shattered the Veil between Life and Death, continuing to torture innocent souls, and also putting the universe in mortal danger. But, hey, at least Darkshore, a beginner zone which even most night elf players have little interest in, is night elven land again, just with a permanent moon hanging over everything.

So Anduin and Tyrande both seem to have been horrible strategists - Anduin attacking Zandalar without any real provocation - they had indeed engaged the Horde, but that was only after Anduin captured their princess without explanation. He believed it would permanently destroy their cooperation - but it only caused most of the Zandalari to hate the Alliance and the Kul Tirans, especially Jaina, with everything they had. And then that enabled Sylvanas and Azshara to destroy most of their naval forces - along with most of the Horde's naval forces, and set in stage what happened next with Highkeeper Ra being killed, and N'Zoth breaking free from the Last Prison. So he failed in that.

And Tyrande also failed by almost dividing her people - and the Alliance - in a critical point of a global conflict - she drew away valuable Gilnean resources, she and the night elves (the druids, the priestesses, the Sentinels, the Highborne, and the Wardens), could all have assisted their friends at Stromgarde or in Kul Tiras, helping them with their problems and defeating their enemies at other warfronts - but she completely refused to do so, and opened a new warfront, one which gave the Alliance another headache, and very limited tangible benefits, short-term and otherwise, as well as causing the beginning of an internal rift that might further weaken and splinter the Alliance in the long-term.

Even Tyrande herself refused to remain in Darkshore. She and Malfurion settled in Nordrassil. So it's not like it's become their second home either.

Edit: The first option was a mistake, meant to be, "Yes, probably" (they had a strategy). If someone could change that, I would be really grateful.

[onesBronson]

Would it have been better if they just gave up darkshore, leaving the tree open for long range siege by the horde?

[geco]

Sorry for my English
Anduin never seems to have a strategy and to advance only by the "power of the script".

With Tyrande things are more "complicated".
They can be divided into Four types of things, Three of them are due to something outside the story and cannot be explained in any other way.:

Cuts:
Originally Darkshore was to have more than one leader from each van. Even in the beta there were Malfuerion and Nathanos. But I guess at one point they realized that they didn't make sense or they didn't have enough Horde to fight the Kaldorei or they didn't have time.

So let's be honest. Sira shouldn't even be general.

script:
In the History of BFA The Kaldoeri should not defend themselves or do anything in all of History. That's why all the fans are so angry.
So every time they just aren't doing anything and they could be doing something. It's because the script needed it that way.

This also explains why the Kaldoeri cannot use Mount Hyjal or use all of their characters at once. Simply because otherwise the Horde could not give them a fight or they would take center stage from the rest of the Alliance.

Money:
When Blizzard realized that if the Kaldoeri Fans left they were going to lose almost a third of their earnings, they invented the night warrior and gave it to Tyrande to see if they would save any money.
They even say in an interview that he was originally going to be Maiev. With whom she really closed her actions much more to do it alone, not to help the Alliance and more like that.

The strategy:
1That Anduin or the Alliance says "later we will recover it" is a lie, as happened with Henomeran and La ciudad Warguens. So waiting for it to happen is a really stupid idea. Not to mention that the war is finally over and the Alliance did not recover any Kaldoeri territory or send them reinforcements.

2 Nor can he leave the territory in command of the Horde because if he waits long enough the Horde will turn him into a desolate paramo, corrode all the corpses, he will have wood to make more ships and will continue torturing the prisoners the already had.

3 The Battle of Darkshore was a starting point. Hyjal could not be used by script and the other territories were too close to the Horde.


I think he answered everything about Tyrande. Although most of the things sure are boring answers. But the only real answers on the subject.

[Arikara]

i mean

you're forgetting that the real reason behind some of these questions is "because the devs thought it was neat"

why did Tyrande think Darkshore was relevant? no reason, the devs just wanted to use the zone

[Wangming]

Well for all the things I give shit to Blizzard, this is probably the easiest to forgive. I mean obviously nobody on the team is a military strategist. Azmodan, Thrawn, Saruman....none of them are written by people who know how to win a battle. War campaigns, troop placement and battle plans are all driven by Rule of Cool. And unless your strategy is Battle of Winterfell levels of nonsense where pretty much everything ever done is a bad choice, it is fine.

[Tanaria]

Even Tyrande herself refused to remain in Darkshore. She and Malfurion settled in Nordrassil. So it's not like it's become their second home either.

I hope this is addressed to Blizzard as the whole Warfront feels utterly pointless, if the night elves are just going to settle in a location, that they could have already used, from the start.

Darkshore and Tirisfal should be rebuilt and redone for Night Elf and Forsaken players alike.

[Soon-TM]

Anduin's strategy was to undermine the Horde from within, a plan that was ultimately successful, in no small measure thanks to useful idiots like Sadfang or dat Stupid Evil™ Sylv gurl.

Tyrande, however, had no plans. She was deceived by the ruse in Silithus, thus leaving her capital city undefended, and then she engaged in a pretty much sterile guerrilla warfare. As a matter of fact, if Sylv hadn't bolted off in 8.2, she (Tyrande) would still be having a very hard time.

[Feanoro]

Anduin's strategy? Imagine thinking that much effort goes into the Alliance story.

Anduin's only strategy is believing folk songs, the power of his dreams, and the plot armor bestowed by embodying a feminist writer's ideal beta male.

Tyrande's case is tossing a bone to try to keep NElf fans from cancelling their subscriptions in sheer damn disgust over how badly they've been butchered since Cata.

[geco]

Tyrande's case is tossing a bone to try to keep NElf fans from cancelling their subscriptions in sheer damn disgust over how badly they've been butchered since Cata.

This.


I feel like the original plan was for only Maiev to be in the dark coast recovery for not trusting and rightly so in the alliance.

With Malfurion and Tyrande in bed or something.

[StationaryHawk]

I hope this is addressed to Blizzard as the whole Warfront feels utterly pointless, if the night elves are just going to settle in a location, that they could have already used, from the start.

Darkshore and Tirisfal should be rebuilt and redone for Night Elf and Forsaken players alike.

Why do the Kaldorei need to establish their new capital in Darkshore in order for them to want control over it?

[geco]

Why do the Kaldorei need to establish their new capital in Darkshore in order for them to want control over it?

Won't it be like Puerto?
The current capital is quite far from the sea I think.

[Hellspawn]

Tyrande, however, had no plans. She was deceived by the ruse in Silithus, thus leaving her capital city undefended, and then she engaged in a pretty much sterile guerrilla warfare. As a matter of fact, if Sylv hadn't bolted off in 8.2, she (Tyrande) would still be having a very hard time.

After 8.1 the Horde lost literally every combat since Teldrassil. If anything Tyrande should be standing before the gates of Ogrimmar while the Horde struggle since they lost their fleet and were losing in two battlefields.

How much they weakened the troops in Darkshore we don't know they left us completely in the dark with the details there, we don't know what's up with Ashenvale as well.

Money:
When Blizzard realized that if the Kaldoeri Fans left they were going to lose almost a third of their earnings, they invented the night warrior and gave it to Tyrande to see if they would save any money.
They even say in an interview that he was originally going to be Maiev. With whom she really closed her actions much more to do it alone, not to help the Alliance and more like that.

I don't think this is true, they planned that out. What does it even matter if it's Maiev or Tyrande, they planned to do the night warrior. If they really would have cared for the night elf fanbase they would have handled Tyrande's fight with Nathanos differently. Also, the story around Sira & Delaryn was weak.

- Darkshore is a fairly narrow and geographically isolated region, with fairly limited natural resources. The kaldorei had previously little interest in Darkshore, compared with Ashenvale and Hyjal. Other than Bashal'Aran - itself a ruined Highborne city until very recently - it had no other major settlements other than Lor'danel. Presumably, the Horde had not attacked Nordrassil (there were still druids there, as some quests showed). So the night elves still had another place to call home. Not to mention Val'sharah, the Eastern Kingdoms, Pandaria with the Tushui Pandaren, and possibly Feralas. But - Tyrande ignored all this. And focused solely on Darkshore of all places. Without any clear explanation. Even if she did want to fight the Horde - why not in Ashenvale, much larger, strategically located, with far greater numbers of defensible settlements, and resource-abundant, closer to Hyjal, the Barrens, and Orgrimmar?
- Most of the night elves in Darkshore were gone, having escaped or been killed. Lor'danel and Auberdine were already destroyed. So Tyrande's intervention could not stop that anyway. If Anduin promised to reclaim these settlements later on, perhaps after Stromgarde is captured - why is that a horrible idea? Would waiting several months, or even a year have made that much difference?

According to the mission table, the zone was contested before and when we got there we freed quite some troops which the Horde occupants used for target practice...
Darkshore made more sense... at least as a starting point, if they would have started in Ashenvale the Horde could have attacked them from two sides.
Also it's storywise much more dramatic with the burned-down Teldrassil in the background...

- Tyrande's winning the Battle for Darkshore (which apparently happened after Sylvanas fled Orgrimmar) did almost nothing to really weaken the Horde's presence elsewhere in Kalimdor.

We don't know, no infos about that kind of stuff

- Tyrande did not NEED to perform the Night Warrior ritual. She and the night elves had survived and won countless wars before that. The Alliance after winning Stromgarde could have helped her anyway - without her putting herself and others at such terrible risk. And she was still very powerful without Elune's most dangerous power. Now she seems estranged from the Alliance (partly), and she is probably going to die. And as she lost against Sylvanas recently, it's not like it's really helping her avenge her people.

We don't know if that's really the case, the point where Anduin would send her help was pretty ambiguous.
If the Night Warrior was essential to win the war in Darkshore is hard to say, its a really powerful weapon, and before Tyrande transformed they were almost overwhelmed... So I would say, at least in the situation we had it was essential.

Regarding the loss against Sylvanas, you are talking about the Battle of Ardenweald.
We don't know if she loses there, it's not that unlikely that Sylvanas gets driven out of there by Tyrande. We will know soon(TM)

- Tyrande eagerly showed up for Anduin's gift of the Kul Tiran vessel from Jaina - but shortly afterwards refused to appear in the Battle before the Gates of Orgrimmar, openly ignoring Anduin and other Alliance leaders when they needed her assistance and support the most, when the war was nearly at its most dangerous stage. She could have helped them significantly, and personally confronted Sylvanas - perhaps even fought her directly, and with Malfurion's help, possibly matching or even defeating her. But again, of course, neither she nor her beloved husband appeared to bother doing so. And thus, Sylvanas escaped - and shattered the Veil between Life and Death, continuing to torture innocent souls, and also putting the universe in mortal danger. But, hey, at least Darkshore, a beginner zone which even most night elf players have little interest in, is night elven land again, just with a permanent moon hanging over everything.

Tyrande did not want the war to end... in fact, she did not sign the armistice.
Also, Sylvanas would have escaped anyway because plot needs to happen.

So Anduin and Tyrande both seem to have been horrible strategists - Anduin attacking Zandalar without any real provocation - they had indeed engaged the Horde, but that was only after Anduin captured their princess without explanation. He believed it would permanently destroy their cooperation - but it only caused most of the Zandalari to hate the Alliance and the Kul Tirans, especially Jaina, with everything they had. And then that enabled Sylvanas and Azshara to destroy most of their naval forces - along with most of the Horde's naval forces, and set in stage what happened next with Highkeeper Ra being killed, and N'Zoth breaking free from the Last Prison. So he failed in that.

How did this enable Sylvanas? Her trap had no dependency on the Alliance destroying the Zandalari fleet.

And Tyrande also failed by almost dividing her people - and the Alliance - in a critical point of a global conflict - she drew away valuable Gilnean resources, she and the night elves (the druids, the priestesses, the Sentinels, the Highborne, and the Wardens), could all have assisted their friends at Stromgarde or in Kul Tiras, helping them with their problems and defeating their enemies at other warfronts - but she completely refused to do so, and opened a new warfront, one which gave the Alliance another headache, and very limited tangible benefits, short-term and otherwise, as well as causing the beginning of an internal rift that might further weaken and splinter the Alliance in the long-term.

Why did we need to fight over Stormgard again in the first place?

Even Tyrande herself refused to remain in Darkshore. She and Malfurion settled in Nordrassil. So it's not like it's become their second home either.

Why should she stay there when the enemy is beaten? If anything she should have moved further to Ashenvale.

[geco]

How much they weakened the troops in Darkshore we don't know they left us completely in the dark with the details there, we don't know what's up with Ashenvale as well.

They never beat us. Why do we understand the Kaldoeri simply did not respond when I call them Anduin. He says so himself.
Shandris must have gone as a symbolic force or as a rebel.

I don't think this is true, they planned that out. What does it even matter if it's Maiev or Tyrande, they planned to do the night warrior. If they really would have cared for the night elf fanbase they would have handled Tyrande's fight with Nathanos differently. Also, the story around Sira & Delaryn was weak.

Well precisely all of that was "resigned" by complaints from fans that Tyrande did not feel "powerful" or "vindictive".

In the Original version all Kaldoeri joined the Forsaken. And Tyrande didn't do anything to Nathanos or any Valquer. She also left a lot of Hordes alive.

Even in the last version that would be the novel they reveal to us that Sira was under mental control. So if it sounds like the whole event was because the fans didn't leave. But with blizzard writing quality.

[Hellspawn]

They never beat us. Why do we understand the Kaldoeri simply did not respond when I call them Anduin. He says so himself.
Shandris must have gone as a symbolic force or as a rebel.

There were also Night Elfs troops when they attacked Daza'alore... again we don't know how many troops of the Night Elfs they took to Darkshore and how many remained in other places.

Well precisely all of that was "resigned" by complaints from fans that Tyrande did not feel "powerful" or "vindictive".

In the Original version all Kaldoeri joined the Forsaken. And Tyrande didn't do anything to Nathanos or any Valquer. She also left a lot of Hordes alive.

Even in the last version that would be the novel they reveal to us that Sira was under mental control. So if it sounds like the whole event was because the fans didn't leave. But with blizzard writing quality.

They also had a cinematic on ptr back then where Night Elfs won in Darkshore so...
And the redesign did not really change that much... Tyrande got some more void stuff instead of just auto attacking Nathanos...
And some Night Elfs turned into wisps instead of turning undead. (With the entire wisps lore being just a lot of question marks how that works with the shadowlands) ... with zero explanation why they actually followed the guys that killed them and burned their families (expect for some ambiguous toy that pointed at some domination magic which we did not know anything about back then)
The story and plots remained the same, the rework just changed a bit how it's visually presented.

[StationaryHawk]

Won't it be like Puerto?
The current capital is quite far from the sea I think.

There is no current capital, and Darkshore borders both Ashenvale and Moonglade.

The night elves have lived in northern and western Kalimdor for thousands of years. Of course they're not going to be content with allowing the Forsaken to occupy it.

[geco]

There were also Night Elfs troops when they attacked Daza'alore... again we don't know how many troops of the Night Elfs they took to Darkshore and how many remained in other places.

On the basis that there is neither Tyrande, Malfurion, Maiev, Jarold and only Shandris.
We can get an idea that the bulk of the army seems to be missing.

But I emphasize Anduin clarifies that Tyrande does not answer the letters.

They also had a cinematic on ptr back then where Night Elfs won in Darkshore so...
And the redesign did not really change that much... Tyrande got some more void stuff instead of just auto-hitting Nathanos...
And some Night Elfs turned into wisps instead of turning undead. (With the entire wisps lore being just a lot of question marks how that works with the shadowlands)
The story and plots remained the same, the rework just changed a bit how it's visually presented.

The general idae is.
But they have listened to criticism to such an extent. They even switched lines to Maiev where she originally called Tyrande Queen. (although I think she was kind of a passive insult).

There is no current capital, and Darkshore borders both Ashenvale and Moonglade.

The night elves have lived in northern and western Kalimdor for thousands of years. Of course they're not going to be content with allowing the Forsaken to occupy it.

They imply that they returned Mount Hyjal to its original capital.

PS: Hope they give the Forsaken a flying city XD.

[Hellspawn]

But they have listened to criticism to such an extent. They even switched lines to Maiev where she originally called Tyrande Queen. (although I think she was kind of a passive insult).

I think it was just really badly written, like it was a first draft from an intern how learned about the warcraft story only with the cinematics. Maiev calling Tyrande Queen was out of character for her.

PS: Hope they give the Forsaken a flying city XD.

If anyone should get a flying city it should be the Draenei, their ship should be in the orbit of Azeroth.

[geco]

I think it was just really badly written, like it was a first draft from an intern how learned about the warcraft story only with the cinematics. Maiev calling Tyrande Queen was out of character for her.


If anyone should get a flying city it should be the Draenei, their ship should be in the orbit of Azeroth.

Yes it can also be. Although really the change that all Kaldoeri do not become undead later does not make sense because it was mind control.

Calling Tyrande Queen is an insult. Why would it be to compare her to Azhara. (They clarified it in some novel I don't remember). and I see Maiev insulting her.

[Hellspawn]

Calling Tyrande Queen is an insult. Why would it be to compare her to Azhara. (They clarified it in some novel I don't remember). and I see Maiev insulting her.

Then you don't know Maiev very well, you don't call your High Priestress Queen (Maiev being a priestess herself). There was also no reason for her to call her that.
Nathanos called her that later... but that is perfectly in character for Nathanos.

[geco]

Then you don't know Maiev very well, you don't call your High Priestress Queen (Maiev being a priestess herself). There was also no reason for her to call her that.
Nathanos called her that later... but that is perfectly in character for Nathanos.

Would Maiev say that Tyrande is the same trash as Azshara?
Especially after everything about Illidian and killing his sisters.