Rewrite the Night Warrior

[Hellspawn]

Tyrande survives because the WQ acts as her deus ex machina.
Qadarins ritual isn't working, she starts absorbing even more power, after which Lady Moonberry calls the WQ who then casts her magic and then we get the cinematic.

Its made very clear what's happening in the quest, idk why some people are so caught up on it.

Elunes fixes Tyrandes night warrior. We already know this.

[Raetary]

Elunes fixes Tyrandes night warrior. We already know this.

Apparently not when considering some of the posts in this thread...

[VladlTutushkin]

my friend, future is female https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...ing-the-future

screw consistency, this is more important

The “best” part is how they try to push “female empowerment” with Sylvanas and yet casually destroy a race that was closest to matriarchal culture… While also making this race dependant on human-male centric kingdom.

Infracted.

[Icelin]

my friend, future is female https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...ing-the-future

I think you should rephrase this. "The future is for everyone." This should also mean to not discriminate other human beings for the colour of their skin or gender. That should mean the dis-including hate speech of "white and male". That is discrimination.

Definition of hate speech:

abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.

I think there is enough room for everyone regardless of colour or gender identity.

I was not very impressed with the Night Warrior story, but I am willing to see how it will end. I am unsure and curious to know. I heard Anduin and Uther will have more story in this patch. I am happy to hear this. I like representation of all characters.

Now what I would like to mention the reality of the situation with Anduin. A lot of people are not interested in Anduin and people make it out to be about buzzwords, labeling, and division. Promoting their hatred and hate speech. The reality is people don't like Anduin much because he is a purity-stu.

So people if you want them to address the character and have them actually listen. Please start using the proper term in tropes.

Definition of purity stu:

..It is a character that is intentionally made by the author to be overly positive. They almost never have any flaws that actually affect them in a way that truly matters, usually going for endearing traits such as "clumsiness" or naïveté, instead getting overloaded with overwhelmingly positive but largely passive traits (i.e. beauty, innocence, etc.). The character will usually be soft-spoken, have a pleasant voice, and be mild-mannered. Often, the traits verge towards the ethereal, with auras, non-human lineage, and other such things...

Don't fuel the hatred , division and segregation. You are not a label ever. Regardless of skin colour, demeanor, attire, gender, sexual orientation.. whatever the group they want to divide you in. Don't be supportive of people that push this stuff either. Discrimination should never be tolerable. Nor spreading hate speech.

Back on the topic, I am willing to see what they have in store for Tyrande and Sylvanas in the upcoming patch.

Infracted.

[Feanoro]

@Aucald Blizzard is pushing these themes in the stories, or put another way, the lore is being shaped by real world politics. In that sense, I'd argue it's valid to discuss how the story is affected. It's very different from saying something like "well, Character X is a Nazi!" It's for that reason I'm writing what I do.

I think you should rephrase this. "The future is for everyone."

Unfortunately, that's not what Blizzard thinks, according to the article.

This should also mean to not discriminate other human beings for the colour of their skin or gender. That should mean the dis-including hate speech of "white and male". That is discrimination.

Yep, the article presents "white and male" as if something was wrong with that. That's Blizzard's thoughts and it's very disturbing.

The reality is people don't like Anduin much because he is a purity-stu.

Exactly, and he's written as throwing his people and allies under the bus rushing to save the Horde, preaching the writers' ideals to everyone.

Infracted.

[geco]

The “best” part is how they try to push “female empowerment” with Sylvanas and yet casually destroy a race that was closest to matriarchal culture… While also making this race dependant on human-male centric kingdom.

That is the best and more if you know about human evolution it is like the BFA tells you.
Killing Black Women is okay if a blue-eyed blond white human tells you to be okay.

Don't fuel the hatred , division and segregation. You are not a label ever. Regardless of skin colour, demeanor, attire, gender, sexual orientation.. whatever the group they want to divide you in. Don't be supportive of people that push this stuff either. Discrimination should never be tolerable. Nor spreading hate speech.

Of course, it is as pure as the Argentine governor who came out to say that it was not a violation that it was really love.
Or like the lawyer who said that the man was not a rapist is that the woman was dressed in a tempting way and because of the man she could not recite.

Anduin is so pure that he refuses to impose justice and rewards criminals.

Exactly, and he's written as throwing his people and allies under the bus rushing to save the Horde, preaching the writers' ideals to everyone.

Unlike Gildon (from Magic) or Steven (although the ending was pretty bad).
Gideon is the last to lose faith in Lilliana. Because he is "pure goodness." But he does not forgive the dragon that sifts worlds.
Gideon is not going to attack you from behind because he has honor. But if he has to save a friend he will attack you from behind without hesitation.

Steven does not come and by his magic he heals you (or he did not do it at the beginning) He only gives you faith and helps you avoid your defects that hurt you.
Steven even though they complain that he forgives the "galactic Nazis" by doing so he made them heal all the gems. Making these repair all your mistake.

Anduin for his part relies time and time again on someone who does horrible things. Did you do 3 genocides? Surely now you learned your lesson.
Anduin is afraid of doing "wrong" things if that is why he saves his friends. It does not matter that they are scavenging Kaldorei I will not hurt the sentiments of the Zandalari (although it is Jaina I know but I entered the same thing)
Anduin does not cure you of your flaws. Anduin cures you of your virtues he teaches Varock how to be Honorable.
Anduin forgives the side that did something wrong without correcting anything they did, it is more likely that they will commit it at any time.

When Gideon or Steven forgive someone they are saving lives.
When Anduin forgives someone he is condemning innocents to horrible deaths.

PS: @Aucald We could make a separate topic for the negative messages that WoW has about society

Infracted.

[Feanoro]

We could make a separate topic for the negative messages that WoW has about society

Apparently we'd need to go somewhere else if we want to talk about such things.

[geco]

Apparently we'd need to go somewhere else if we want to talk about such things.

I would say that Anduin should also be censured for the message he transmits. XD

But hey, you have to respect the rules. For something this forum has a better atmosphere than the official ones.

[Eggroll]

That isn't how the story goes with Alliance (or quasi-Alliance) characters. They maybe dripping with Void/Fel/other random dangerous magic, yet nothing ever happens to them. On the other hand, when it's a Horde character, we have e.g. Garrosh going batshit crazy after having barely sniffed some void-infested shinies from Pandaria.

It's Tyrande you are talking about. It is my opinion that the devs absolutely detest her. They would never give her an opportunity to shine, to appear powerful and competent.

[Soon-TM]

It's Tyrande you are talking about. It is my opinion that the devs absolutely detest her. They would never give her an opportunity to shine, to appear powerful and competent.

Quite the opposite, the NW power is supposed to consume whoever wields it, yet Tyrande gurl is apparently able to come dry off the gale. No but's, no if's, nothing - she's just fine.

[geco]

Quite the opposite, the NW power is supposed to consume whoever wields it, yet Tyrande gurl is apparently able to come dry off the gale. No but's, no if's, nothing - she's just fine.

They are fine but they are useless.

It's like you have to be a werewolf but you lose control. She makes a whole arc to keep from losing control. But when she becomes a werewolf she becomes a Chibuabua.

I believe that if at this moment they tell us that she is not war, they will not read that she only wore black glasses to inspire the army and it was a light trick. I believe it.

[exochaft]

It's very hard to get into the minutia about this storyline, as it's Blizz who introduced real-world social/political messaging into the narrative into the WoW storyline as a whole... so not being able to talk about it just stifles explanation and proper dissection of the story, what's wrong with it, and how it could be made better.

Without specifically talking about those points of real-world social/political messaging that get shoe-horned in, I think a lot of issues with the current trend of the WoW storyline (the NW one, as well) stem from the writers having to create their own lore and material. Blizz developers will even tell you that up through WotLK, they really didn't need to craft any new lore as it was already made from the Warcraft franchise. Right now, Blizz is trying to expand the lore of the WoW universe, and I'd hazard a guess that the Chronicles were akin to the Simarillion in some aspects: basic outline of the foundations of the universe upon which you build existing lore. That's perfectly fine, but the next step is where the issues lie...

When you start writing stories or crafting a narrative, more often than not you draw upon personal experience. If you don't, you educate yourself and/or immerse yourself in a scenario/mindset/location/etc. to where you eventually gain a deeper understanding that allows you to draw upon your experiences to make a believable and compelling narrative. However, I don't feel like the writers have much experience beyond their own personal bubbles or a lack of historical understanding, and it reflects in their writing. This is especially important as people (even gamers) want to invest in a story that they can relate to while finding it plausible, and real life examples are a prime way to develop such a story.

For example, the tropes and resolution of the Night Warrior questline scream CW levels of superhero show writing that lack any real world perspective or understanding. Granted you aren't going to literally get a real-life night elf with super powers that eat away at them, but you can certain find real-life historical examples of people who sought and gained power to reach their goals while eventually losing their lives due to gaining such power, suffering a cost from wielding a power, or even surviving despite attaining such power. Even if you don't have an extensive historical understanding of what power gained at any cost does to people, it's easily inferred that what happens to Tyrande doesn't make sense even under the most optimistic of circumstances.

If I had control of the pen, Tyrande's quest for power and vengeance would likely end in her death or causing way more harm than good. While redemption can occur, it's exceedingly rare and severely overplayed in WoW. Would I allow her to get her revenge? Honestly, I could go either way, as I think you can make a more compelling story that impacts the rest of the cast in WoW if you use Tyrande as the de facto example of power corrupting absolutely, or have cautionary tale of the quest for power not yielding anything positive. As such, Tyrande could end up actually doing something morally grey to downright immoral. She could maybe even inadvertently help facilitate the Jailer's plans to everyone's (including the Jailer) surprise by mowing down her own forces in a blind rage to get to Sylvannas. Tyrande could downright murder DK Anduin as she sees him as just another Sylvannas pawn, as she's pretty much written off the Alliance as as whole in her quest for revenge anyways.

So yeah, I think my favorite options would be that she either fails to get revenge and still loses in some way to her powers (death, way weaker to never recover even pre-NW power, etc.), or she manages to get her revenge with HUGE collateral damage to her own side while potentially/probably even helping the enemy in the end. Of the two, I think the latter is the better of the two, as her choice and its effects being mostly isolated to just her is the most unbelievable aspect of the current story given her actions as a whole. I think such a direction in the narrative would enrich the story and open up better possibilities down the road, instead of reinforcing a world where actions have no consequences or where motivations/plot points just get forgotten and have no meaning to the world.

[Soon-TM]

Tyrande could end up actually doing something morally grey to downright immoral.

While I largely agree with everything you wrote, this is the crux of the issue. Under no circumstances the current batch of writers will allow any Alliance figure (least of all a major one) to do anything less than heroic (more or less) voluntarily, and actually pay the price for it. Furthermore, no one in Warcraft opposes the God King and can possibly have a point - anyone who does oppose is either killed or "redeemed", and welcome back into the Drying Paint Appreciation Society, as our pal @Super Dickmann eloquently put it.

[Super Dickmann]

Without specifically talking about those points of real-world social/political messaging that get shoe-horned in, I think a lot of issues with the current trend of the WoW storyline (the NW one, as well) stem from the writers having to create their own lore and material. Blizz developers will even tell you that up through WotLK, they really didn't need to craft any new lore as it was already made from the Warcraft franchise. Right now, Blizz is trying to expand the lore of the WoW universe, and I'd hazard a guess that the Chronicles were akin to the Simarillion in some aspects: basic outline of the foundations of the universe upon which you build existing lore. That's perfectly fine, but the next step is where the issues lie...

Good post overall but this part is really off-base. There's no time in the game's history where the writers knew where they were going in anything but the broad strokes or were reliant on earlier material more than whatever they'd made up at that time. Take the very first expansion in TBC. Outland was called 'the red world' back in the day and all of it looked like Hellfire Peninsula. The Black Temple and Hellfire Citadel were the same thing except called the Black Citadel. The draenei were primitive Akama-looking people with the eredar being someone else entirely. All of this got spaced when it came time to put it in-game.

Spaceships and the Legion having a more sci-fi vibe both come from there and caused an uproar with how they clashed with what came before. Kael, Vashj and Illidan were all motiveless drones going off on bizarre tangents like Vashj's plan to steal all the water from Zangarmarsh for whatever reason. The climax of the expansion with Anveena and Kalec is genuinely incomprehensible unless you've read up on an obscure manga, but if you by some chance did, then you'd still be off-base because in that manga Dar'khan is a flamboyant pseudo-lich who gets incinerated in the end whereas in the game he's a drab dude who's very much intact. All the native races are not only brand new, but races like the arakkoa only have any dimension or lore to speak of thanks to WoD and Chronicle years later. Speaking of years later, the whole sequence of events is so poorly put together that the game still needs to commit impromptu surgery to fix it with things like the Illidan book, Blood of the Highborne or Kael's bits in Chronicle.

Pretty much the only times Blizzard have gone in with more prior material than new are Legion, thanks to Chronicle being largely set up for it, but Chronicle itself redid big parts of what came before, so it's a wash really.

[Eggroll]

Quite the opposite, the NW power is supposed to consume whoever wields it, yet Tyrande gurl is apparently able to come dry off the gale. No but's, no if's, nothing - she's just fine.

There's a problem: she accomplishes nothing with this power. She can't even finish off Sylvanas.

[Soon-TM]

There's a problem: she accomplishes nothing with this power. She can't even finish off Sylvanas.

D'oh... No one will be able to "finish off" Sylv, plot armour is a thing. Which isn't exclusive to Sylv gurl btw - it seemingly applies to the entire Sue Quadriumvirate (Andy, Jaina, Thrall, and ofc Sylv) as well.

[voidox]

There's a problem: she accomplishes nothing with this power. She can't even finish off Sylvanas.

lol yup

all the night warrior has done is kill a single val'kyr, nathanos, this jailer minion in the latest cinematic and fight a bit with sylvanus... oh and she was able to farm around in Torghast like the players have been able to do.

so ya, all this talk on "omg night warrior's power!" from blizzard, with nothing to show for it. Oh, and such a dumb name as well... you'd think the night elves would have a Kaldorei word for the power, not "night warrior" -_-

[Unholyground]

They are clearly making her turn to the Fel like Illidan did so many years ago for the power to beat Sylvanas.

[Strafer]

I hope Tyrande joins Horde.

[starstationprofm]

The Night Warrior should've never existed. So Elune never used her full powers for Tyrande when the Burning Legion invaded and nearly destroyed the planet 3 times but she did so for one goddamn tree?

It retroactively fucks with lore and quite frankly why would Elune's chosen be so powerful? We've killed so many beings empowered by gods or claiming to be gods themselves. Tyrande is formidable sure but she was never a massive powerhouse. They made her into the strongest mortal on Azeroth and I'm not sure I like it.