So.. Alleria vs Liadrin

[fairfang]

I just found it interesting that Alleria absorbed the powers of a Void Naaru, while Liadrin siphons the holy energies of a Naaru.

What if these 2 we're to fight?

[Arrashi]

They would explode just like in heroes of might and magic 4 intro.

[Dastreus]

explosion
/10

[darkoms]

Alleria much stronger
Alleria vs Tyrande more equal

[sam86]

I like Liadrin a lot more, and i hate Alleria's wow version, but still Alleria easily beat Liadrin

[OwenBurton]

I just found it interesting that Alleria absorbed the powers of a Void Naaru, while Liadrin siphons the holy energies of a Naaru.

What if these 2 we're to fight?

They should have included Liadrin in the Vindicaar with Alleria, when Vereesa was telling her about Sylvanas. Alleria and Liadrin barely acknowledged each other at Silvermoon. Alleria was disgusted at the Forsaken - NOT the blood elves, whom she still views as her people, and she seemed courteous enough with Liadrin and Lor'themar, her old Farstrider friend, in Silvermoon. Why didn't Liadrin engage her? Or other blood elves on the vessel? Alleria was neutral then. This should have been a better scenario:

Vereesa: Perhaps we should discuss this in private.
Liadrin walks up to the two sisters, staring coldly at Vereesa Windrunner, her fists clenched.

Liadrin: I think not, Vereesa! Tell her about how you abandoned Quel'Thalas in our darkest hour, when Sylvanas fell and died for our people - how you chose to hide with humans and chose them again and again over our own people! Tell her about the blood elves YOU slaughtered at Dalaran at Jaina Proudmoore's request - the former lover of the man who slaughtered our race!
Tell her how you abandoned and betrayed your sister Sylvanas, when she stood for our people after the humans spurned us - and how you attacked Rommath and our people yet again at Suramar! Tell her how unlike your older sister, our greatest hero, YOU turned your back on your own people - when they needed you the most! The Alliance is our past - but perhaps Alleria of all people, who has changed and adapted so much over the years, will yet understand that our people's true future lies...elsewhere.

<Vereesa Windrunner bows her head in shame, closing her eyes as she begins to cry. Alleria slowly frowns, uncertain and curious, and Liadrin takes her away from Vereesa with her head held high, guiding the former Ranger-Captain of Silvermoon towards the waiting blood elves on the ship, for further conversation with her estranged kin.>

Some people believe Alleria could have become a blood elf - a Horde member, perhaps, because of her affection towards Sylvanas. That would have been interesting! Turalyon on the Alliance, fighting to reclaim his homeland Lordaeron from Sylvanas - and Alleria on the Horde, fighting to defend Quel'Thalas once again, and fighting alongside Sylvanas to defend Tirisfal Glades from the Alliance!

But anyway - Alleria and Liadrin were probably equal before Alleria was empowered by L'ura. Alleria = Markmanship hunter; Liadrin = Retribution paladin. Afterwards, Alleria is likely stronger than Liadrin.

[Raisei]

Liadrin was beaten up by a single Death Knight on her home turf (i.e consecrated ground), Alleria would mop the floor with the poor girl.

Since I like both I'd rather not have it come to that, Liadrin just needs to stop following genocidal mad(wo)men and get the Belfs into the Alliance.

[Varodoc]

Alleria would easily destroy her, it's easy to see why:

- Void Naaru > Light Naaru. Xe'ra was killed instantly by a weakened and stressed Illidan, L'ura had to be defeated by 5 great champions wielding legendary artifacts, Locus-Walker, and Alleria herself, after a long fight.

- Ranged > Melee, Thrall vs. Garrosh proved this, so Alleria would simply shoot an arrow in Liadrin's brain and be done with it.

- Also Liadrin isn't the host of a Naaru's power? When did she absorb a Naaru? Meanwhile Alleria indeed absorbed the Void Naaru L'ura, as well as another Void Demi-God prior to that, making her the vessel of TWO VOID DEMI-GODS.

And if Alleria managed to incapacitate Liadrin she could completely shatter her brain like she did to that refugee in Shadows Rising. They are on two completely different levels of power.

The problem is that Blizzard despises Alleria, she's one of the most hated characters by Blizzard, so she's never allowed to show her powers. But Shadows Rising for what's worth indeed showed that Alleria could shatter the brains of her enemies via her nefarious Void powers.

[bela2021]

Some people believe Alleria could have become a blood elf - a Horde member, perhaps, because of her affection towards Sylvanas. That would have been interesting! Turalyon on the Alliance, fighting to reclaim his homeland Lordaeron from Sylvanas - and Alleria on the Horde, fighting to defend Quel'Thalas once again, and fighting alongside Sylvanas to defend Tirisfal Glades from the Alliance!

But anyway - Alleria and Liadrin were probably equal before Alleria was empowered by L'ura. Alleria = Markmanship hunter; Liadrin = Retribution paladin. Afterwards, Alleria is likely stronger than Liadrin.

Some people are fucking demented and so are you if you even consider Alleria joining the horde, she's one of the most radical and extremist anti-horde characters in WoW history due to the horde's actions in Warcraft 2.

That's like saying a palestinian would join the israeli army.

God you people are fucking annoying with your utterly retarded fanfiction, this is why we got shit like pandaria become a thing.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem is that Blizzard despises Alleria, she's one of the most hated characters by Blizzard, so she's never allowed to show her powers. But Shadows Rising for what's worth indeed showed that Alleria could shatter the brains of her enemies via her nefarious Void powers.

Out of which one of your assholes did you pull this out of?

Alleria's a woman, and blizzard are all about that empowerement bullshit these days.

Just cause the writers are incompetent doesn't mean they hate her.

[Raisei]

They should have included Liadrin in the Vindicaar with Alleria, when Vereesa was telling her about Sylvanas. Alleria and Liadrin barely acknowledged each other at Silvermoon. Alleria was disgusted at the Forsaken - NOT the blood elves, whom she still views as her people, and she seemed courteous enough with Liadrin and Lor'themar, her old Farstrider friend, in Silvermoon. Why didn't Liadrin engage her? Or other blood elves on the vessel? Alleria was neutral then. This should have been a better scenario:

One would think that Vereesa would not bow her head in shame and instead fire back how the Blood Elves murdered her husband by helping Garrosh with his insane plot again and again. She did not need "Jaina's request" to kill them, she was happy to take revenge. Or she could bring up that time where the oh so great Sylvanas hatched an assassination plot and wanted to use her little sister as a scapegoat, so she did not have to get her own hands dirty. Vereesa has absolutely nothing to be ashamed about.
The Blood Elves sold their souls to the Horde because of one bad human, yet no matter how many bad orcs, trolls, tauren and undead they encounter in the Horde, they stick around.

Some people believe Alleria could have become a blood elf - a Horde member, perhaps, because of her affection towards Sylvanas. That would have been interesting! Turalyon on the Alliance, fighting to reclaim his homeland Lordaeron from Sylvanas - and Alleria on the Horde, fighting to defend Quel'Thalas once again, and fighting alongside Sylvanas to defend Tirisfal Glades from the Alliance!

Yeah right. Alleria was one of most orc-hating people in the war. She would never join the Horde, all of her dialogue during Legion and later make that clear. She wants the Blood Elves to redeem themselves and rejoin the Alliance, not the other way around.

We already have the Nightborne enslave themselves to the Horde and their Banshee Kween for no reason other then wasting good characters on a faction that only exists to start pointless wars every 3 years, let's leave Alleria out of that.

[Moonrage]

Liadrin is just a paladin while Alleria actually absorbed the power of a dark naaru. So probably Alleria. By a mile.

[BaumanKing]

Liadrin is the most boring paladin in lore, it's not even a joke. Which is ironic, cause she had so much potential at the beginning of BC, but now she and her Blood Knights are just pale imitation of human paladins. Dezco is much more interesting, so I hope Blizzard writers will instead use him in the upcoming Light/Void expansion. Or maybe High Prelate Rata, cause zandalari prelates are awesome, but underdeveloped. Troll paladin versus void elf would be a cool concept tbh.

Besides Liadrin lost to Turalyon in Arathi, so she will likely lose to Alleria as well.

[Feanoro]

One would think that Vereesa would not bow her head in shame and instead fire back how the Blood Elves murdered her husband by helping Garrosh with his insane plot again and again. She did not need "Jaina's request" to kill them, she was happy to take revenge. Or she could bring up that time where the oh so great Sylvanas hatched an assassination plot and wanted to use her little sister as a scapegoat, so she did not have to get her own hands dirty. Vereesa has absolutely nothing to be ashamed about.

All that would involve pointing out the Horde isn't a collective of innocent choirboys, and the story absolutely does not allow that. Any evils done by the Horde are pinned on a single scapegoat, while "I was just following orders" is considered perfectly acceptable in Azeroth.

The Blood Elves sold their souls to the Horde because of one bad human

And Hordies try to tell you with a straight face that the Alliance is racist.

yet no matter how many bad orcs, trolls, tauren and undead they encounter in the Horde, they stick around.

Because they're hypocrites who found useful idiot meat shields in the Horde. They're never in the front lines unless there's magic to gorge on, and their leader Bob clearly has the loyalty of an alley cat, trying each time the idiotic faction war rises to pick the winner before he does anything.

[fairfang]

Alleria much stronger
Alleria vs Tyrande more equal

I think Tyrande as a novice priestess would beat her. What has Liadrin done to compare her against the likes of Tyrande?

[Ardenaso]

if Light's Hope Chapel can't save Liadrin from a Death Knight how much more on a Void demi-god?

if anything Liadrin should get a powerup on a future Light vs. Void expansion

[Rendark]

Liadrin is a far better character but Alleria has emo powers so she would win.

[Amnaught]

I just found it interesting that Alleria absorbed the powers of a Void Naaru, while Liadrin siphons the holy energies of a Naaru.

What if these 2 we're to fight?

Every time we've seen a Naaru come into contact with any significant force of the Void, they've been corrupted into dark naaru.

I'm pretty sure that if Alleria can corrupt the entire Sunwell all at once on accident, she can turn Liadrin.

[Varodoc]

I think Tyrande as a novice priestess would beat her. What has Liadrin done to compare her against the likes of Tyrande?

You mean Tyrande vs. Alleria? Well back at you, what has Tyrande done to compare her to the likes of Alleria? Killing a Val'kyr (already done by a low level player in Andorhal)? Killing Nathanos when he had 5% HP left?

[OwenBurton]

One would think that Vereesa would not bow her head in shame and instead fire back how the Blood Elves murdered her husband by helping Garrosh with his insane plot again and again. She did not need "Jaina's request" to kill them, she was happy to take revenge. Or she could bring up that time where the oh so great Sylvanas hatched an assassination plot and wanted to use her little sister as a scapegoat, so she did not have to get her own hands dirty. Vereesa has absolutely nothing to be ashamed about.
The Blood Elves sold their souls to the Horde because of one bad human, yet no matter how many bad orcs, trolls, tauren and undead they encounter in the Horde, they stick around.



Yeah right. Alleria was one of most orc-hating people in the war. She would never join the Horde, all of her dialogue during Legion and later make that clear. She wants the Blood Elves to redeem themselves and rejoin the Alliance, not the other way around.

We already have the Nightborne enslave themselves to the Horde and their Banshee Kween for no reason other then wasting good characters on a faction that only exists to start pointless wars every 3 years, let's leave Alleria out of that.

I mentioned that Alleria could have joined the Horde - but that not necessarily that she would STAY with them (or at least with Sylvanas's Horde) forever, or permanently.

Remember - Vereesa loves Sylvanas, despite knowing all the controversial things, all the "atrocities" she has committed against humans. She loved Sylvanas - so much that she very nearly abandoned her children and her faction and her friends - all to reunite with her in the Undercity, you remember how much emotion Vereesa was in during their failed reunion - and Vereesa was MUCH more anti-blood elf than Alleria, having fought and slaughtered countless Sunreavers before then.

Think how much more deeply sympathetic a guilty Alleria, who has seen and experienced so much over a thousand years in the cosmos, would be - she who left Sylvanas to protect Quel'Thalas, who turned down the position of Ranger-General because she disliked its responsibilities and arguably caused Sylvanas to stand in her place to die for Silvermoon - who understands the familiar and constant temptation of darker powers far better than Vereesa.

Alleria Windrunner says: Hello again, Liadrin. Champion. Lor'themar, I am here concerning a matter that might be best addressed in private. (She is on friendly terms with both the Horde champion - including orcs and trolls - and Lady Liadrin, whom she might have remembered from her priestess days, as Liadrin was a friend of Alleria's fellow Farstrider Lor'themar.)

Lady Liadrin: The Regent Lord intends to show First Arcanist Thalyssra our Sunwell. I do not know if he will allow Alleria Windrunner to attend the meeting, but we are invited to join them.

The first scenario:

Alleria becomes neutral after returning to Azeroth, and joins the Unseen Path in Highmountain, reclaiming Thas'dorah as her legendary weapon; reconnects with her close friend Halduron and her Farstrider comrades there, as well as meeting other hunters and rangers from all races. She is respected and admired by most Alliance and Horde players as someone mature enough to see the bigger picture, not hold onto old grudges; and Vereesa and Sylvanas are perhaps also able to reconcile via the Unseen Path and their mutual blood elf associations. The void elves therefore become a neutral race - if Alleria finds Umbric at all in this alternate scenario - to satisfy Alliance players, high elves are the new allied race in the expansion.
Alleria - Neutral - Void

Sylvanas - Horde - Death

Vereesa - Alliance - Arcane

(A perfect symmetry and balance between the three Windrunner sisters)

The second scenario is much longer and more complicated:
Alleria joins the Horde officially after meeting privately with Sylvanas and Lor'themar (one of her oldest and most trusted friends) and hearing their perspective, on how Quel'Thalas suffered so deeply after her departure. Wracked with guilt after hearing the tragic stories of hundreds of her former friends, for abandoning her friends and her younger sister to fight and die against a genocidal threat, upset and confused by the Purge of Dalaran and other controversies - Alleria, embodying the concept of "necessary" if unpopular change, decides to join the Horde, where most of her surviving people have joined, on the condition that Sylvanas does not harm Arator, which her sister readily agrees. Alleria becomes the new Ranger-General of Silvermoon on the Horde side, becoming close once again with Lor'themar and Halduron, and many of her former peers and fellow rangers.

The Fourth War begins - perhaps Sylvanas burns Teldrassil, perhaps Alleria is able to dissuade her in this scenario, being by her side, her presence comforting and balancing her younger sister. Either way, the Alliance invades Lordaeron eventually, Greymane pushing Anduin to strike Sylvanas regardless - and Alleria is forced to face her husband Turalyon (returning to reclaim his homeland from the Forsaken) on the battlefield. They have a massive battle, Alleria for the Void, and Turalyon for the Light, in the middle of Tirisfal Glades, neither able to gain the upper hand.

Then, as Turalyon begins to defeat Alleria, Sylvanas intervenes and fires an arrow directly into his heart, badly wounding him. Alleria goes crazy and turns on her sister Sylvanas, opening portals everywhere and unleashing hundreds of Void creatures (drawing on Tirisfal's legacy, remember how the region got its name originally), while Sylvanas goes into Banshee mode and raising her undead from the ground. The two women face each other in midair, unleashing the full force of their powers against one another, destroying much of their opposing forces. The battle ends in a stalemate, with both Alleria and Sylvanas hurting each other badly, and the Alliance temporarily retreats from Tirisfal Glades, Turalyon carrying his injured wife back to Dalaran, where she reunites with Vereesa and Arator.

At Dalaran, Alleria and Turalyon have a very long and intense mature talk with Arator and Vereesa (as well as her two sons, one pro-Alliance and the other pro-Horde, offering different views on Sylvanas), joined by Khadgar, Modera and other formerly Alliance mages who have essentially become neutral. Khadgar gives his old friend Alleria his same old speech: "The world has changed...and so have we. Gone are the days when we marched into Draenor together, both sides have changed, and things are much more complicated and grey. The faction war is pointless - that is why I fight for the Alliance no longer, for the greatest interests of peace. Our people are Azeroth's guardians now - not we."

Alleria decides to leave Sylvanas, unable to fight Turalyon, but she cannot bear to fight her younger sister either - and therefore becomes neutral, staying in Dalaran to watch over Vereesa's sons like the similarly neutral and former Alliance hero Rhonin did, but promises to protect Silvermoon and Stormwind if either city is threatened without provocation, while Vereesa and Arator joins the Alliance with her high elves, giving them a new allied race -- and / or staying with the Unseen Path and working with the rangers in the Broken Isles to finish off surviving demons and honing her skills as a neutral party who helps races from both factions.

In essence, Alleria becomes Valeera Sanguinar 2.0 = someone who is NOT hostile openly towards the Horde, and who is welcomed by both sides, into both Stormwind and Silvermoon, but who does not openly fight for them or the Alliance either, while her followers, the void elves are free to join either side as they please, with Alleria all about free will and endless possibilities, not limiting yourself to conventional norms and establishment. Some void elves prefer the Alliance and the company of the high elves over that of the orcs and trolls; the others refuse to abandon their families in the Horde, regardless of how they regard them, much like Alleria herself. This makes sense; the Lightforged and void elves are not exclusively on the same faction, which might seemingly be very contradictory. The Alliance gets its high elves, and both sides get void elves in the new expansion (the void elves were the only Alliance allied race most Horde players found somewhat interesting, at least at first), and everyone is basically satisfied.

[Raisei]

Remember - Vereesa loves Sylvanas, despite knowing all the controversial things, all the "atrocities" she has committed against humans. She loved Sylvanas - so much that she very nearly abandoned her children and her faction and her friends - all to reunite with her in the Undercity, you remember how much emotion Vereesa was in during their failed reunion - and Vereesa was MUCH more anti-blood elf than Alleria, having fought and slaughtered countless Sunreavers before then.

Well, she only still loves Sylvanas because she has no clue what the Banshee really intended when inviting her to the Undercity. I.e. killing her and making her undead. Not to mention killing her kids. I imagine that would put a damper on the whole love thing. Bad enough that Vereesa feels she owes Sylvanas an apology for not being her tool to kill Garrosh...
But still, even if she does still love her, that doesn't mean she has to take shit from Liadrin. The Horde's crimes against Vereesa are undeniable and no amount of love for Sylvanas would or should make Vereesa feel bad about fighting against them.

Think how much more deeply sympathetic a guilty Alleria, who has seen and experienced so much over a thousand years in the cosmos, would be - she who left Sylvanas to protect Quel'Thalas, who turned down the position of Ranger-General because she disliked its responsibilities and arguably caused Sylvanas to stand in her place to die for Silvermoon - who understands the familiar and constant temptation of darker powers far better than Vereesa.

It's true that Alleria understands darker powers a lot better then Vereesa, but there is a huge difference between her and Sylvanas.

Alleria is using the Void, fighting off its influence and staying on the right side, while Sylvanas has been completely overtaken by her undeath, her entire thought process eclipses in "my life is shit and so I might as well ruin everyone else's" the disposition of a villain.
She has given in to the dark power in her, while Alleria never did. At best the older Windrunner would pity her sister for her weakness.

And again, what even would be the point of her joining the Horde? It's not like she would be doing anything there. When the next Warchief snaps and starts another war, she would just stand around doing nothing, like Thalryssa and all the others did in BFA. She would be completely wasted on that faction.
In fact the majority of Horde players won't even want her. Like Calia, she is ex-Alliance and not a raving lunatic and that doesn't lead to a lot of acceptance by the red side of the community.