Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[TheRevenantHero]

That's not an item.

Didn't think I'd have to say that.

And there is no advantage to that.

.....Saying it's not an item is so utterly irrelevant that I'm not even sure where to begin.

And saying there is no advantage shows you really don't know what the word advantage means. A level boost is literally giving you a headstart over players NOT buying the level boost.

advantage: any state, circumstance, opportunity, or means specially favorable to success, interest, or any desired end

[Skirdus]

If paying people to boost you through dungeons / raids is considered "Pay to Win" then WoW has been P2W since Vanilla

[Relapses]

Ah. So it is okay for you to change facts based on your feelings because you "disagree". Weird right? Stop being so passive aggressive. If buying power is what defines "Pay to Win" then being able to buy levels certainly fall under that category. Just because what you are buying is irrelevant to any end game progression doesn't stop it from being power that is bought.

Anyone who makes a big deal out of the level boosts though is being silly. It is technically pay to win but in practice is not. The power you gain is not going to win you much of anything but it is still buying power.

By your own admission, the power you gain from a level boost is completely irrelevant. I don't know why you want to waffle the definition of P2W to include level boosts; if it's meaningless power, why bother even including it? Like I said in my previous post, these half-assed definitions simply erode the actual definition of the word and make it that much easier for people to make very poor generalizations about how the game works.

[Rinnegan2]

I really think people are bogged down with some rather random and arbitrary concepts of what "winning" is in an mmo.

exactly. you nailed it here. winning is subjective.

[Jester Joe]

.....Saying it's not an item is so utterly irrelevant that I'm not even sure where to begin.

P2w MMOs have always been game that allow for players to purchase items directly from the developer that give you an advantage over players NOT buying those same items.

And saying there is no advantage shows you really don't know what the word advantage means. A level boost is literally giving you a headstart over players NOT buying the level boost.

advantage: any state, circumstance, opportunity, or means specially favorable to success, interest, or any desired end

You can't get a headstart over other players. The boost always goes to old content. Don't try to twist that.

On top of that, the only "advantage" is level.

So you miss out on-

1) experience playing the class
2) gold made from questing and dungeons along the way
3) any professions have to be from scratch rather than worked on along the way
4) any progress that would have been made towards...well, literally anything.


Overall the only "advantage" you get is spending a few hours of work worth of money instead. And there's more disadvantages than anything.

[Lochton]

exactly. you nailed it here. winning is subjective.

But this is why this whole thread has so many opinions, though.

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Overall the only "advantage" you get is spending a few hours of work worth of money instead. And there's more disadvantages than anything.

As I've always seen the boost, it is a catch-up. It is a shortcut, and thus the price is so high. Indeed, the only advantage is.. saving a few hours of play without reaching noteworthy content.

[Cyranis]

Step 1 buy tokens. Step 2 pay the gold received to get a pvp boost and get full mythic ilvl gear and weapons. It's not even expensive, $160.

Wow sold out with the introduction of the token.

Wow is p2w.

[TheRevenantHero]

You can't get a headstart over other players. The boost always goes to old content. Don't try to twist that.

On top of that, the only "advantage" is level.

So you miss out on-

1) experience playing the class
2) gold made from questing and dungeons along the way
3) any professions have to be from scratch rather than worked on along the way
4) any progress that would have been made towards...well, literally anything.


Overall the only "advantage" you get is spending a few hours of work worth of money instead. And there's more disadvantages than anything.

You have clearly never actually purchased the level boost because you're 100% wrong about going to old content. The level boost takes you to the level needed to enter NEW content meaning it is a DIRECT advantage over players not spending the $60 and therefore have to level all the way up to the same point. It's the very definition of a headstart and an advantage.

You're doing some intense goalpost moving in trying to justify that it's not an advantage but you're still 100% wrong. Just because YOU don't see it as an advantage doesn't mean it ISN'T one. I'd post the definition of advantage again but it's very clear you're going to constantly move the goalposts no matter what is said.

[huth]

Yes you can. You can spend $60 for a level boost. That is giving you a direct advantage over players NOT spending that same $60.

A miniscule advantage over new characters. People that have been playing for years are still ahead of you because they are not only at least the same level, but also have better gear.

There is no way in the game to obtain something through real money trade that people haven't already achieved without it. You cannot pay to win. Only to catch up to the winners.

[TheRevenantHero]

A miniscule advantage over new characters. People that have been playing for years are still ahead of you because they are not only at least the same level, but also have better gear.

There is no way in the game to obtain something through real money trade that people haven't already achieved without it. You cannot pay to win. Only to catch up to the winners.

Literally irrelevant. You're spending real money for an advantage over players no spending that same money. Also, there's no "winners" in MMOs so with your logic, p2w doesn't exist at all. Which is a gigantic fallacy.

[Lochton]

Step 1 buy tokens. Step 2 pay the gold received to get a pvp boost and get full mythic ilvl gear and weapons. It's not even expensive.

Wow sold out with the introduction of the token.

Wow is p2w.

But by this, WoW was P2W since October 2006 through legal methods, when the sales of TCG were implemented, making the P2W even more exclusive than it would be now - Ultra P2W? So, today, it has been watered down to weaker P2W?

Since, with the token, it is P2W by people's statement because it is indirect.

But if we follow it being indirect, then it was P2W the whole time, as you have always been able to sell game-time to other people for gold, even if illegal.

[Relapses]

Step 1 buy tokens. Step 2 pay the gold received to get a pvp boost and get full mythic ilvl gear and weapons. It's not even expensive, $160.

Wow sold out with the introduction of the token.

Wow is p2w.

And if the token didn't exist and people bought gold from a Chinese farmer and did the same shit... then what? Still P2W?

Those Chinese farmers still exist, btw. They just go by the name "boosting community" these days.

It's not P2W just because Blizzard gets a cut from something people would be doing anyway. :^)

[Jester Joe]

You have clearly never actually purchased the level boost because you're 100% wrong about going to old content. The level boost takes you to the level needed to enter NEW content meaning it is a DIRECT advantage over players not spending the $60 and therefore have to level all the way up to the same point. It's the very definition of a headstart and an advantage.

You're doing some intense goalpost moving in trying to justify that it's not an advantage but you're still 100% wrong. Just because YOU don't see it as an advantage doesn't mean it ISN'T one. I'd post the definition of advantage again but it's very clear you're going to constantly move the goalposts no matter what is said.

Yeah you have no intention of actually discussing this do you.

If you're boosted to level 50 like currently, you're at...old content cap.

You can move to new content, like literally everyone else who was sitting at 50 for the expansion previously. But don't try to act as if being level 50 is "new content" currently when it was the cap for BfA. Especially when there's nearly 2 years of time to get to said cap, and then buying the new expansion lets you get to that anyway.

[huth]

Literally irrelevant. You're spending real money for an advantage over players no spending that same money. Also, there's no "winners" in MMOs so with your logic, p2w doesn't exist at all. Which is a gigantic fallacy.

Then by your own definition, it's not P2W since it doesn't grant an advantage over players not spending the money. You're still worse off, just not quite as badly.

[Jester Joe]

Literally irrelevant. You're spending real money for an advantage over players no spending that same money. Also, there's no "winners" in MMOs so with your logic, p2w doesn't exist at all. Which is a gigantic fallacy.

So you admit you're ignoring a key point here just to shove WoW into your "P2W" definition.

[TheRevenantHero]

Yeah you have no intention of actually discussing this do you.

If you're boosted to level 50 like currently, you're at...old content cap.

You can move to new content, like literally everyone else who was sitting at 50 for the expansion previously. But don't try to act as if being level 50 is "new content" currently when it was the cap for BfA. Especially when there's nearly 2 years of time to get to said cap, and then buying the new expansion lets you get to that anyway.

If you can't see how spending $60 to skip FIFTY LEVELS OF CONTENT is an advantage then there really is absolutely no point in me trying to explain it. Again.

[huth]

Yeah you have no intention of actually discussing this do you.

If you're boosted to level 50 like currently, you're at...old content cap.

You can move to new content, like literally everyone else who was sitting at 50 for the expansion previously. But don't try to act as if being level 50 is "new content" currently when it was the cap for BfA. Especially when there's nearly 2 years of time to get to said cap, and then buying the new expansion lets you get to that anyway.

Level 50, and with pretty crappy gear as well.

[TheRevenantHero]

Then by your own definition, it's not P2W since it doesn't grant an advantage over players not spending the money. You're still worse off, just not quite as badly.

It DOES grant you an advantage over players not spending money wtf? You are literally paying to skip 50 levels worth of content that other people would have to grind through to get to the same point. I can't believe I need to explain this so many times.

[huth]

If you can't see how spending $60 to skip FIFTY LEVELS OF CONTENT is an advantage then there really is absolutely no point in me trying to explain it. Again.

Well, the only advantage it supposedly has is losing out on content. That's gonna be a hard sell.

[TheRevenantHero]

So you admit you're ignoring a key point here just to shove WoW into your "P2W" definition.

I'm not admitting anything. I've explained numerous times why it is a form of p2w. You are just opting not to read it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

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Well, the only advantage it supposedly has is losing out on content. That's gonna be a hard sell.

Your comments really just boil down to "It's not pay to win because I said so."