Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Schizoide]

Like everything else in the world, there are degrees to it, nothing is black and white. WoW is definitely on the P2W scale because you can buy actual power by buying gold.

Their argument that token sales hinders gold farmers and thus fraud and CS cost is, I believe, probably true. I still don't like it, but taking a pragmatic view it makes sense.

[rhorle]

Hello? is this thing on? Irrelevant power doesn't fucking matter so it shouldn't be included with the definition of P2W. Fuck man.

Just because it doesn't matter doesn't mean it isn't buying power. Stop trying to change what is included based on your feelings. Weird that you are not arguing to do what you spent a few posts yelling at another poster for doing.

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I've had a vast majority of my hunters BM rotation by level 30. so try again.

Vast majority doesn't mean all of it. You defeated your own reasoning lmao. Did you even think that through?

[Lochton]

Ya, that's exactly what makes it pay2win. Bliz is complicit. They know exactly what sort of behavior it encourages, and they money is too good for them to do anything about it.

If bliz didn't allow gold sales boosting, and stopped selling tokens it would just be cheaters and illegal activity, not p2w.

Ah, but TCG has existed since October 2006, so you just made P2W either exclusive to the whales or only for the illegal market through sales of game-time (Making it P2W indirectly as well, but illegal as well) or purchase of gold from scammed victims, hacked accounts, bots, and farmers.

[rhorle]

If those levels were on top of the normal ones. But as is, it only puts you on par with a character that has been neglected since early BfA. That's not P2W, that's not even P2 be adequate.

So if Blizzard sells Heroic raid gear it wouldn't be pay to win? Because it makes you paying to be adequate.

[Relapses]

Ya, that's exactly what makes it pay2win. Bliz is complicit. They know exactly what sort of behavior it encourages, and they money is too good for them to do anything about it.

If bliz didn't allow gold sales boosting, and stopped selling tokens it would just be cheaters and illegal activity, not p2w.

And how, exactly, does Blizzard stop people from buying gold? It turns out banning people wasn't a very good way to handle it so I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

[Doffen]

Hah.. The open territory is just the shit ton of different opinions of P2W...

The rabbit hole is if we are digging deeper into crap like "indirect P2W"..

Glad you like the open territory.. You may roam free now.

Hehe, I love the wording of the definitions.

Open territory is fun, I admit!

[rhorle]

Again, no one cares about your extreme examples to try to get a "gotcha" moment. You're not making any points here by dishonestly debating.

The only one dishonestly debating here is yourself. Instead of debating you keep looking for ways to out right dismiss everything a person has stated. Why even bother entering into the discussion if you are just going to be arrogant?

[Lochton]

Like everything else in the world, there are degrees to it, nothing is black and white. WoW is definitely on the P2W scale because you can buy actual power by buying gold.

Their argument that token sales hinders gold farmers and thus fraud and CS cost is, I believe, probably true. I still don't like it, but taking a pragmatic view it makes sense.

But then WoW has been legally P2W since October 2006..

[Jester Joe]

So because it doesn't give you gold and profession levels....that means it's not an advantage? That's so utterly asinine and such an aggressive moving of the goalposts that I legitimately have absolutely no idea how to address it.

So basically you have actually nothing to disprove it really. And it's not goalpost moving. YOU said boosts were advantage. It was pointed out to you how they are a disadvantage too, and now you're going "GOALPOSTS!".

You don't miss out on the gold because you can still go back and get it. Even easier when you out level the content. Right? Professions are contained to the expansion and the only relevant one is the current expansion. So you don't miss out on anything you can't go back and do. Also gaining gold at level cap usually makes it easier to buy mats and old expansion mats are usually high priced.

Going back to do the work anyway. So...basically still doing the same work, while paying money for it instead. That's your idea of an advantage?

and you fail to realize how lucrative old profession skills can still be.

You don't need to keep repeating things I countered in my response. Lol. Why it is that you can't actually discuss anything but your opinion? I am not making an extreme point and it doesn't matter if another poster used item as well. You are still trying to push that buying power (which is what pay to win is) requires an item. Don't make a silly argument if you don't want to be questioned on your own statements.

You didn't counter anything.

You keep going "WELL WHAT IF THEY SOLD HEROIC GEAR?! THAT'S UNDER MYTHIC SO IT'S THE SAME" while it's not even close at all.

To be actually comparable to a level 50 boost, you'd have to be using the example of them selling level 50 raid gear.

Which...would just be selling transmog at that point basically. And you realize that, so you keep trying to push this idea of raid gear as being "equal" so people argue that instead of pointing out how flawed it was to begin with.

[rhorle]

You have still failed to address the advantage of gold, experience playing the class, professions, and progress you make through older zones by leveling.

Weird how I addressed that and you called it dishonest debating. You aren't looking for anything other then a mirror and echo chamber of your own view.

[Cyranis]

Ah, but TCG has existed since October 2006, so you just made P2W either exclusive to the whales or only for the illegal market through sales of game-time (Making it P2W indirectly as well, but illegal as well) or purchase of gold from scammed victims, hacked accounts, bots, and farmers.

I can see you are the nit-picky rules lawyer nobody likes. No wonder you have 33k posts here of all places. LOL.

[Lochton]

So if Blizzard sells Heroic raid gear it wouldn't be pay to win? Because it makes you paying to be adequate.

I would call it P2W if they sold items and buffs for current content.

[Relapses]

Just because it doesn't matter doesn't mean it isn't buying power. Stop trying to change what is included based on your feelings. Weird that you are not arguing to do what you spent a few posts yelling at another poster for doing.

I'm done, you just want to argue semantics and it's clear you have no interest in speaking about this rationally. Have a nice day.

[Jester Joe]

The only one dishonestly debating here is yourself. Instead of debating you keep looking for ways to out right dismiss everything a person has stated. Why even bother entering into the discussion if you are just going to be arrogant?

Vast majority doesn't mean all of it. You defeated your own reasoning lmao. Did you even think that through?

Shouldn't speak of arrogance when you're the one who came into a discussion between me and another poster, ignored almost everything said, and started using flawed arguments to try to debase mine.

On top of that, vast majority as in I'm missing some passives that just speed up the rotation, like some abilities reducing the CDs of others.

The core rotation is still the same, it just becomes faster. It doesn't "defeat" my own point and you literally did nothing to actually counter what I said, which is a bit, well, hypocritical when you're trying to shame others for their way of debating while doing the same yourself.

[Lochton]

I can see you are the nit-picky rules lawyer nobody likes. No wonder you have 33k posts here of all places. LOL.

It isn't really nit-picky. I'm working on the facts. I have my own view of P2W, others have theirs, and there is leeway for an agreement somewhere but then if we flag certain things as P2W, then we have to also identify when it became so.

And I have 33k posts due to activity and previous moderation tasks.

[TheRevenantHero]

So basically you have actually nothing to disprove it really. And it's not goalpost moving. YOU said boosts were advantage. It was pointed out to you how they are a disadvantage too, and now you're going "GOALPOSTS!".



Going back to do the work anyway. So...basically still doing the same work, while paying money for it instead. That's your idea of an advantage?

and you fail to realize how lucrative old profession skills can still be.



You didn't counter anything.

You keep going "WELL WHAT IF THEY SOLD HEROIC GEAR?! THAT'S UNDER MYTHIC SO IT'S THE SAME" while it's not even close at all.

To be actually comparable to a level 50 boost, you'd have to be using the example of them selling level 50 raid gear.

Which...would just be selling transmog at that point basically. And you realize that, so you keep trying to push this idea of raid gear as being "equal" so people argue that instead of pointing out how flawed it was to begin with.

Because your examples of it being a disadvantage is your OPINION and isn't anywhere close to fact. I think being able to skip large swaths of content is a huge advantage because I can immediately jump into current content and even easily faceroll older content. Something people who didn't pay for that same boost can't do. So yes, you are perpetually moving the goalposts instead of just saying "It's my opinion that it's not an advantage". Because it IS your opinion and isn't a fact. I have pointed out how it is an advantage BY DEFINITION and you added extra steps to try and disprove it.

[Master Guns]

Buying a boost to the entry level for an expansion being classified as “pay to win” is asinine and absurd. Pay to win means you pay..to win. Paying to be level 50 is not winning, anything. You’re not getting items that make you powerful, you’re not even paying for progress in the current xpac. The game starts every xpac “at” the current xpac.

So no, WoW is in no way pay to win.

[TheRevenantHero]

I'm done, you just want to argue semantics and it's clear you have no interest in speaking about this rationally. Have a nice day.

He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones. you have literally been using your personal feelings about what is and isn't an advantage while simultaneously saying things like "facts don't care about your feelings." Two people have been able to point out the fallacies in your comments but you continue to double down on being wrong.

[rhorle]

Going back to do the work anyway. So...basically still doing the same work, while paying money for it instead. That's your idea of an advantage?and you fail to realize how lucrative old profession skills can still be.

The advantage is the levels. Not the old content because you don't pay to have that completed for you. Also having access to every quest coverting to gold provides an advantage over doing it for experience. I don't fail to realize how lucrative old professions skills can still be but I am smart enough to know that what you do while leveling is minimal. And taking extra time to level those professions detracts from experience gain and how quickly you can exploit end game and higher level in lower content.

If we can only bring up things comparable to a level 50 boost why do you keep bring up old professions, gold grinding, rep and everything else that isn't comparable to a level 50 boost? Weird how you can dismiss everything someone else posts. Heroic gear is comparable because it isn't relevant since it isn't the best in the game right? That is the same reason you keep dismiss a level 50 boost as not pay to win. Because it isn't the best level in the game.

[huth]

I literally posted the definition of the word advantage. Just because you chose to ignore it doesn't mean I haven't explained it.

Oh no, you posted the definition of advantage... which has what exactly to do with the problem? You still haven't explained how the boost gives you an advantage over others.