As I've stated far back, that is a minor P2W to me, and I've let that slip and agreed, that is a direct P2W.
And then you suddenly have people arguing about indirect P2W, and suddenly, "visual advantage" and so on.
My own goal in this thread was to see where people established themselves, and of course, share my own points, then it turned to the token and the argument of indirect P2W which suddenly branches out into hell, and the game has now been P2W since its existence started.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
Boost does not bring you to "endgame".
But by your example, even if a player had all the gold by their own work, it is P2W because someone, somewhere, who sold you something, or boosted you, or grouped with you, got game-time, or gold from a token.
When did you last look and compared the two stores? As well, ESO has its toxic people too, plenty of them.
The token might open hell for you, but it opens heaven for others. "OH NO, HE GOT GOLD!?" - "OH NO, HE'S GONNA GET BOOSTED!?", "OH NO, HE HAS A CHANCE TO ENJOY HIS GAME?!" - "OH NO, HE CAN ACTUALLY BUY THE EXPANSION FOR HIS HARD-EARNED GOLD AND NOT A CREDIT CARD?!"
Actually, everyone with the extra money has the ability to help another player with game-time and earn some gold from it. Unless you expect that people just buy game-time for each other out of good heart only? And if we use your example again, anyone that touches gold in WoW, is supporting P2W, even if they do not believe so, because one of those digital strands of code could've been part of a token transaction, or earned by someone with subscription thanks to the token.
So, an inclusive method to give everyone a chance to enjoy the game without actually going bust in real life is P2W, gotcha.
Any gold you may have used, or earned in WoW, is Pay2Win because it could've been paid/bought by someone who had interaction with token sales or purchases, or who might've helped someone who has game-time from the token, or boosted someone who had gold from token sales, or played with friends who managed to finally buy the newest expansion with gold because they did not have real money to buy it, is also P2W.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
Cosmetics aren't p2w. So anyone who says it is? They're arguing for the sake of arguing because they're 100% wrong. The only clear cut example of p2w in WoW is the character boost.
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The only person reaching is you. And advantage is an advantage no matter how much you try to trivialize it. Just because you're saying it only take 16 hours to do doesn't mean it's not paying money to buy player power.
But it's clear you're not interested in being logical or honest about this discussion considering your use of ad hominem.
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Calling it a service does nothing but try to avoid saying it's not p2w. Because by that logic, p2w doesn't exist because we can just call it all a service and therefore not p2w.
Soooo, I understood you correctly. You're saying that human beings cannot have a tough life. If they cannot afford a subscription with real money, they do not work. They cannot enjoy their game because they MUST pay for it with real money because else it is.. unfair for people who pay real money? Some people scrape by with what they can, and a game that can earn itself, is a bliss to some, for they can save those dollars for something else without going into full despair because some guy with a hate boner believes they do not deserve to play the game if they cannot pay with real money.
What game do you hide in? For all MMO's are P2W by your standards, and all MMO players support P2W by your standards, either by doing business, buying items, admiring items, touching them, or working with people who might've made a purchase some time ago..
And as you seem to fit to flag so many, and so much, then why did you ever play WoW in the first place, since WoW has been indirectly pay2win since day one?
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Whelp, Mr. Necrosaro believes that cosmetics are a "visual advantage".
And I've already said, that I'd gladly agree that a boost is a minor form of P2W because you save time. It is funny that Necrosaro123 does not see the boost as P2W when he/she sees so much Pay2Win in the existence of the game.
Yup, I was baffled as well when I saw that..
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
Yes clearly the ability to buy tokens to buy gear is pay to win.
I don't understand why there is a 60 page topic about such an inconfusable and clear thing.
People who argue it's not p2w are delusional.
No its not.. Anyone can make gold.
Besides, goldfarmers make way more gold than the average player is willing to buy tokens for.
Its pretty rare to see average players buy 25tokens (Thats 500euro, to buy 1 mount)
On my server you can get around 2 boost, for one token.. Thats 2 tokens a month, just to get the weekly done.
So 40euro extra a month, for content which is expected for average players to achieve anyway.
Having the WoW token is NOT pay to win, because;
1. You can easily make the tokens worth of gold in a week. So there is no real incentive to buy gold.
2. There will always be gold sellers, farming insane amounts of gold and selling on sketchy websites.
But the word win is the main factor here. You say cosmetics are just cosmetic but I outlined cases where they were not just cosmetic and offered a possible advantage. Yet you dismiss by saying the word win isn't important. It is easy to say you are correct when you ignore irrefutable proof of flaws in your argument.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
From skimming the thread, it looks like a lot of people are getting caught up on the word "win", like P2W means you're buying gladiator or mythic raid loot. I tried to disabuse them of that but you know, it's the internet.
@rhorle: Sorry, I must have missed your post. Which cosmetics offer an in-game advantage? If you point to (for example) a usable item that makes you as short as a gnome so you're harder to see in PvP, I wouldn't classify that as cosmetics and it would count as P2W to me.
Because it's the Win part that is important. It doesn't matter what anyone else here think when the definition is that you buy advantages that trumps skill or time. Like, buying abilities or spells no one else can use unless they buy them.
Nothing in WoW is P2W by definion. People can create their own definition of the word if they'd like, but that doesn't really make them right except within their own reality with their own personal defintion of the word.
And if they hate P2W and WoW is P2W according to them, just log out of MMO-champ and quit WoW lol.
Not even ones that offer an in-game advantage? Trial of style has other players in the group rate your transmog. So cosmetic gear bought from the store can offer an advantage in that case. Buying the toys can help you get enough to get the achievement for a herb-picking mount. Store pets offer a distinct advantage in pet battles. Those battles can reward XP or be done for world quests. There are even some store pets that are no longer sold that offer a big advantage.
That is the problem when you have subjective definitions for pay to win or overly broad definitions.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
Laughably dumb take. WoW is pay to win by definition that you can use real money for in-game goods and services via a sponsored method given by Blizzard and the paid boosts.
In fact, the paid boosts alone are a pay to win mechanic.
Just because the game doesn't have some gimmick loot box gacha system in place doesn't mean it's not pay to win.
You are not buying player power with a token either though. You can use a token to buy mounts, pets, transmog, or other similar non-power items. Are you stronger then another player just because you by a token? Absolutely not. Are you stronger then another player because you buy a boost? Sure but that is with or without using a token. A token is not pay to win. It is just a micro transaction.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."