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  1. #201
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfelle View Post
    Uh what? I've never seen this comparison made. The icy stuff comes from a general theme and a lot of the DK flavor text of "as cold as death itself" that you'll find on a lot items and spells. Nothrend and the Frozen Throne were literally the inspiration for this. Plus I've never seen Lich associated with frost magic. It may have frost elements, but Lich are pure necromatic death magic. Period.
    Lich’s have been frost aligned since atleast classic naxx if not before, rather that frost is death magic elemental magic arcane or what not we don’t really know other then it’s frost.

    https://www.wowhead.com/npc=15990/ke...ities;mode:n10

  2. #202
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    they literally are holy warriors they just have a different god then the holy light or Razon and as you said the source doesn’t matter making them paladins.
    Are they? Quote and source for that claim?

    nope not once have I made any claims on what’s canon and what’s not.

    you really don’t as none of my post ever claim any thing is canon or not.
    And again:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again, you literally did:
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Im the dishonest one? I’m not the one pointing to a vague description and claiming it to be lore when it isn’t
    Here we have you accusing canon information of being non-canon.

    I gave you a chance to clarify your view on any of the info In question
    And when I did not reply your questions in a way you wanted, you decide to just claim I wrote things I clearly did not. That is dishonesty.

    my post was on the money
    It wasn't, and I explained why.
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  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Lich’s have been frost aligned since atleast classic naxx if not before, rather that frost is death magic elemental magic arcane or what not we don’t really know other then it’s frost.

    https://www.wowhead.com/npc=15990/ke...ities;mode:n10
    /facepalm. KT's use of frost magic does not make all lich associated with frost magic. They are necromatic beings. In every genre, and in every universe. KT was a mage in life, we know this. And now he's back in 9.1 with a few frost abilites as a throwback to his Naxx days, but MOST of his spells are nercomatic death magic.

    NECORTIC Miasma
    NECORTIC Surge
    NECORTIC Empowerment
    NECORTIC Destruction
    NECROTIC Obliteration

    Lich in WoW were granted some frost elements from Ner'zhul for command over Nothrend. But their main power comes from necromatic abilites. The tie between Frost spec DK's and Lich is just not there. Ner'zhul is the reason we have frost dk's
    Last edited by Sinfelle; 2021-06-09 at 02:37 PM.

  4. #204
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfelle View Post
    Uh what? I've never seen this comparison made. The icy stuff comes from a general theme and a lot of the DK flavor text of "as cold as death itself" that you'll find on a lot items and spells. Nothrend and the Frozen Throne were literally the inspiration for this.
    Actually, its inspired from the lich. To the point that the frost death knight trainer is a lich. You can see it in Acherus.

    Plus I've never seen Lich associated with frost magic. It may have frost elements, but Lich are pure necromatic death magic. Period.
    Really? Two of the four of the WC3 lich's abilities were Frost Nova and Frost Armor. The lich's auto-attack are also bolts of blue magic. And then we have all the liches in WoW, ever since vanilla, using frost magic.
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  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Actually, its inspired from the lich. To the point that the frost death knight trainer is a lich. You can see it in Acherus.


    Really? Two of the four of the WC3 lich's abilities were Frost Nova and Frost Armor. The lich's auto-attack are also bolts of blue magic. And then we have all the liches in WoW, ever since vanilla, using frost magic.
    Ner'zhul is the reason DK's have frost magic, not lich. Ner'zhul is also the one that gave lich there command over frost elements. DK's did not get it from the Lich, unless you want to count Ner'zhul as a lich which isn't exactly the same thing. Lich can use frost magic because of Ner'zhul, but they are death/shadow magic.

  6. #206
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfelle View Post
    Lich in WoW were granted some frost elements from Ner'zhul for command over Nothrend. But their main power comes from necromatic abilites. The tie between Frost spec DK's and Lich is just not there. Ner'zhul is the reason we have frost dk's
    Aside from liches using frost magic since W3, first two sentences from wowpedia article: "Liches are powerful undead beings. On Azeroth, they are usually bound to the iron will of the Lich King, they mainly wield frost magic and necromantic spells."
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Aside from liches using frost magic since W3, first two sentences from wowpedia article: "Liches are powerful undead beings. On Azeroth, they are usually bound to the iron will of the Lich King, they mainly wield frost magic and necromantic spells."
    It's like arguing with fuckin drywall. I never denied Lich can't use frost magic. We all remember KT and his very icy room. I said they are undead necromatic beings who can use frost magic. They are literally made of death magic. They aren't fuckin frost mages, or shamans that specialize in frost shock. To associate them as the reason we have frost DK's is stupid. It's Ner'zhul. He's the one that gave both lich and DK's their powers. This is the lore....

    But regardless, this is still a dumb as fuck comparison as to why/how dark rangers would have banshee powers.

  8. #208
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    It really should be noted that with patch 9.1 the standard Dark Ranger abilities have all passed through the Hunter class at some point or another. The only DR abilities that would be out of place are Haunting Wave and Sylvanas' Mind Control abilities. However, Dark Rangers outside of Sylvanas don't have those abilities anyway.

    In terms of a potential DR class, I think it's time to simply accept that it is merely a "dark" variation of the standard Hunter class.

  9. #209
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Are they? Quote and source for that claim?
    Here’s the priest quote again that explains void users get there power through worship.
    The Light in which many priests bathe is brilliant and effervescent, granting them immense divine power. But the brightest light casts the darkest shadow—and from within this blackness, a rival power dwells. Shadow priests fully embrace this opposing polarity, their faith equally resolute as their holy counterparts—but focused on shadowy magics and mental manipulation. Like all priests, they dedicate much of their lives to worship—but they derive their power from the Void, straying dangerously close to the domain of the Old Gods. To truly understand such ancient, corruptive influence is to be driven mad. This is the state in which these dark priests thrive, embracing insanity and feeding off of the minds of their opponents to reach terrifying new limits.
    and another about the twilight hammer them self which says there a religion that worship the old gods from wowpedia.
    is a nihilist quasi-religious sect[11] active across Azeroth that fanatically serves and worships the Old Gods
    Put the two together and put on some plate armour and you become a holy warrior. And I’m sure you won’t at all hyper focus on rather the word holy is actually in either quote as that would of course exclude the sun walkers/blood knights and who knows how many priest orders from actually being paladins/priest and would be ignoring what the word actually means!
    And again:

    Here we have you accusing canon information of being non-canon.
    there’s still no canons in that post or things that could be mistaken for one like mortars or artillery.

    And when I did not reply your questions in a way you wanted, you decide to just claim I wrote things I clearly did not. That is dishonesty.


    It wasn't, and I explained why.
    You didn’t answer any of the questions instesd whinged about dishonesty.

    Here I’ll ask again, and I’m not saying you made any of these statements before you whinge again I’m simply asking for you to clarify your position.

    Was Nathanos ever called any thing other then a ranger/dark ranger.

    Does any lore any where say he became a dark ranger only after dark mirror.

    Did he have pets before he was a boss.

    Are there other dark rangers in wow with pets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfelle View Post
    /facepalm. KT's use of frost magic does not make all lich associated with frost magic. They are necromatic beings. In every genre, and in every universe. KT was a mage in life, we know this. And now he's back in 9.1 with a few frost abilites as a throwback to his Naxx days, but MOST of his spells are nercomatic death magic.

    NECORTIC Miasma
    NECORTIC Surge
    NECORTIC Empowerment
    NECORTIC Destruction
    NECROTIC Obliteration

    Lich in WoW were granted some frost elements from Ner'zhul for command over Nothrend. But their main power comes from necromatic abilites. The tie between Frost spec DK's and Lich is just not there. Ner'zhul is the reason we have frost dk's
    While it is possible that KT was using arcane for his frost spells I’d say it’s more likely that death magic can make frost as well as froustmourn it self is frost based and bolvar who was never a Dk was able to use frost even after ner’zul was gone and he uses death magic.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2021-06-09 at 03:29 PM.

  10. #210
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfelle View Post
    Ner'zhul is the reason DK's have frost magic, not lich. Ner'zhul is also the one that gave lich there command over frost elements. DK's did not get it from the Lich, unless you want to count Ner'zhul as a lich which isn't exactly the same thing. Lich can use frost magic because of Ner'zhul, but they are death/shadow magic.
    Source for that claim?

    Because, again, the death knight had nothing frost about them, back in Warcraft 3, and no frost powers at all before the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, when the class became playable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Put the two together and put on some plate armour and you become a holy warrior.
    No. No, you don't. Zealotry does not make one holy.

    Was Nathanos ever called any thing other then a ranger/dark ranger.
    Again: your question is badly structured. You're equating "ranger" to "dark ranger".
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  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Source for that claim?

    Because, again, the death knight had nothing frost about them, back in Warcraft 3, and no frost powers at all before the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, when the class became playable.
    .....the books and wow lore sites state this, cuz you know......Ner'Zhul is the one that created both. He is the lich king....He raised KT into a lich, and he created DK's giving both of them their powers.

  12. #212
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No. No, you don't. Zealotry does not make one holy.
    ha I knew you’d do that, sun walkers and blood knights aren’t Paladins then as they don’t use the word holy Same with priest of elune and who knows how many other priest secs.

    It’s also quite telling that you want to focus on what words mean (or what you want them to mean) when it comes to lore/canon but then don’t do the same with holy which is defined as
    1.
    dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred.
    which of course apply’s to the twilight hammer.

    All your talk about dishonesty is pure projection.


    Again: your question is badly structured. You're equating "ranger" to "dark ranger".
    Nope all I asked is if he’s ever been called any thing else not if ranger/dark ranger are related or even have any thing to do with each other.

    Again you squirm around answering the questions as you know the objective answers are the ones I gave being no,no,yes,yes.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2021-06-09 at 04:21 PM.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It really should be noted that with patch 9.1 the standard Dark Ranger abilities have all passed through the Hunter class at some point or another. The only DR abilities that would be out of place are Haunting Wave and Sylvanas' Mind Control abilities. However, Dark Rangers outside of Sylvanas don't have those abilities anyway.

    In terms of a potential DR class, I think it's time to simply accept that it is merely a "dark" variation of the standard Hunter class.
    They could easily add and create lore just like everything else. I mean Monks were unheard off, demon hunters were rogues with glaives and so on. Using outside sources such as hots or wow sylvanas are perfectly fine sources if they want to. What some think or feel about that is honestly not realy blizz concern. If they wanted to, they can.(wailing arrow says hi)

    Anything could happen.. even spellbreakers. Its no point dismissing this on an opinion basis, cus in the end no one cares about that. No offence, but some people not saying its you.. but try way to hard.. like if they are blizz themselves.

    Its a fan idea to begin with.. I mean some one thought a void knight was a good idea.. stranget things happen here.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2021-06-09 at 04:42 PM.

  14. #214
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    They could easily add and create lore just like everything else. Monks were unheard off, demon hunters were rogues with glaives and so on.

    Anything could happen.. even spellbreakers. Its no point dismissing this on an opinion basis, cus in the end no one cares about that. No offence, but some people not saying its you.. but try way to hard if they are blizz themselves.

    Its a fan idea to begin with.>.>
    Well that is a fair argument, but again I have to ask; When we break it down what would a Dark Ranger do that is significantly different than the Hunter class?

    Demon Hunters could turn into Demons. That's something Rogues couldn't do. Monks took a lot of concepts from the Brewmaster concept, and included interesting mechanics like melee healing, Brews and Kegs to make them stand out.

    What's a Dark Ranger going to do? People bring up "Banshee stuff", but wouldn't 90% of Dark Ranger concept consists of shooting shadow arrows (which Hunters have already been capable of doing)?

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    Yes, Illidan was once a raid boss and years later his Demon Hunters became playable and with much more skills than Illidan himself. I think to the dismay of some here maybe we're just watching it happen again. The only question is: will we have Dark Rangers playable still in Shadowlands or only in the next xpac?
    If they are not playable in next expac can you publicly, on this very forum, spam thread after thread that you were wrong and admit that everyone who say "they wont be a class" was right?

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    They could easily add and create lore just like everything else. I mean Monks were unheard off, demon hunters were rogues with glaives and so on. Using outside sources such as hots or wow sylvanas are perfectly fine sources if they want to. What some think or feel about that is honestly not realy blizz concern. If they wanted to, they can.

    Anything could happen.. even spellbreakers. Its no point dismissing this on an opinion basis, cus in the end no one cares about that. No offence, but some people not saying its you.. but try way to hard.. like if they are blizz themselves.

    Its a fan idea to begin with.>.>
    There was established lore with each of these classes before they were introduced into the game. Also, the introductions were because the storylines were heavily influenced by these classes as Blizzard has stated many times. Whatever classes get add will have to have some lore already, and be a major part of the story in the new expac. They don't just add random shit outta the blue to create a class.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    I already proved in the other thread that you are wrong my dude.

    Dark Rangers have "roots" in Hunters but are a totally different class. Also, this isn't the first time Blizzard has given Hunter a DR skill. We already had Black Arrow.
    Demon Hunter's metamorphosis was once Warlock's.

    No longer am I happy if this skill that appeared in the last PTR update is legitimate.

    If Blizzard wants to give Hunter all the skills of a DR I'm happy with that.
    dark ranger should just replace survival as the third hunter spec. because unlike whats going on in your head cannon they are the same class

  18. #218
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    ha I knew you’d do that, sun walkers and blood knights aren’t Paladins then as they don’t use the word holy Same with priest of elune and who knows how many other priest secs.

    It’s also quite telling that you want to focus on what words mean (or what you want them to mean) when it comes to lore/canon but then don’t do the same with holy
    Yeah, no. The blood knights use holy magic, from the Light. And the sunwalkers use light magic by worshipping the sun. Old gods are neither light or Light.

    which is defined as which of course apply’s to the twilight hammer.

    All your talk about dishonesty is pure projection.
    Oh, so now the "real meaning" of the words mean something? Because they sure didn't when you decided to claim that "sowing hatred and dissent among enemy ranks" could just mean a hunter making their pets taunt their opponents.

    Nope all I asked is if he’s ever been called any thing else not if ranger/dark ranger are related or even have any thing to do with each other.
    And once again you equate the two terms. And by doing it a third time, I can only assume the error is intentional, therefore putting it into dishonesty territory.

    Again you squirm around answering the questions as you know the objective answers are the ones I gave being no,no,yes,yes.
    I'm not going to answer questions intentionally designed to be misleading.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfelle View Post
    .....the books and wow lore sites state this, cuz you know......Ner'Zhul is the one that created both. He is the lich king....He raised KT into a lich, and he created DK's giving both of them their powers.
    That doesn't mean anything. If the "wow lore sites state this", you can find a quote to link to.

    And on top of that, I'll remind you: the lich king has never been shown using frost magic. Only the liches. Arthas didn't show any frost powers. The death knights of Naxxramas have never been shown using frost powers. Only when the the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, the death knights have been retconned into being able to use frost.
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  19. #219
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yeah, no. The blood knights use holy magic, from the Light. And the sunwalkers use light magic by worshipping the sun. Old gods are neither light or Light.
    holy and light and not synonymous not all paladins use the same light some arguably don’t use the light at all as we have gone over with razon’s magic being blue as his head priest show cases.


    but they are all holy orders as there based on worship and religion just like the TH and the Prelates.


    Oh, so now the "real meaning" of the words mean something? Because they sure didn't when you decided to claim that "sowing hatred and dissent among enemy ranks" could just mean a hunter making their pets taunt their opponents.
    that isn’t even a word it’s a sentence made up of multiple terms that can be interpreted multiple ways. Again pure dishonesty.


    And once again you equate the two terms. And by doing it a third time, I can only assume the error is intentional, therefore putting it into dishonesty territory.
    no equation has been made it’s a simple binary question on what he’s been called.

    For example if you ask the same thing about sylvanas “has she ever been called any thing other then a ranger/dark ranger” the answer unlike Nathanos is yes as she’s been called a ranger dark ranger and a banshee this doesn’t mean banshee and ranger have been equated.


    I'm not going to answer questions intentionally designed to be misleading.
    your not going to admit your objectively wrong because your to dishonest so you’d rather squirm around the question.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2021-06-09 at 05:28 PM.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    That doesn't mean anything. If the "wow lore sites state this", you can find a quote to link to.

    And on top of that, I'll remind you: the lich king has never been shown using frost magic. Only the liches. Arthas didn't show any frost powers. The death knights of Naxxramas have never been shown using frost powers. Only when the the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, the death knights have been retconned into being able to use frost.
    Yeah no. You requested I provide you proof, yet won't go look it up yourself. I am not responsible for educating you when you wont do so yourself...../mic drop

    And the mother fucking Lich King wielded FROSTmourne. The fuck you mean he didnt have any frost magic?? Also the DK's in Naxx were blood and unholy...as shown by their auras. They ties to frost come from emulating the Lich King himself
    Last edited by Sinfelle; 2021-06-09 at 05:29 PM.

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