1. #3021
    Quote Originally Posted by lockybalboa View Post
    Why did the Limit guys call it a day before Echo's kill? They could've gotten the kill had they persisted. It's a world first race and surely they could do without a night's sleep ffs
    Play perfect for 12+ hours and tell me you won't be mentally completely exhausted.

    And no, not the way you play in your raid just hitting buttons. Play absolutely perfect to get every last 0.1% of dps out of your character while dodging and soaking everything without fail try after try after try after try.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #3022
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    I love how this has just devolved into a shitflinging contest of USA and EU calling each other names.

    ....and none of the people doing so had any kind of stake in the race.
    A story as old as wow itself. I would have expected most to have grown up from the childish EU VS US trash talk after so many years and races but seems there is no end in sight.

    PSA : EU and US didn't do anything, your country or continent didn't do anything . Its all on a specific small group of people that have the most amazing performance ....sometimes.

  3. #3023
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    A story as old as wow itself. I would have expected most to have grown up from the childish EU VS US trash talk after so many years and races but seems there is no end in sight.

    PSA : EU and US didn't do anything, your country or continent didn't do anything . Its all on a specific small group of people that have the most amazing performance ....sometimes.

    While Echo got 2 players from the US and Limit had atleast one EU player in the past...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Realtalk View Post
    Funny thing is even with a complete reset of gear Limit still had a lower ilvl than Echo on the kill. 241.5 to 240.32. Race came down to a disconnect causing a .2% wipe and the unknown of when she actually died. Both guilds had theory crafted for 50% The planning and group comp strats interest me more than actual race. Only because the players are all fantastic and most of the time the only thing that differentiates the 2 is the planning.
    Where do you get your numbers?

    242.9 for Limit vs 241.6 for Echo

  4. #3024
    Quote Originally Posted by Sámsa View Post
    Where do you get your numbers?

    242.9 for Limit vs 241.6 for Echo
    Yeah Limit did have a higher item level on the kill (Realtalk is wrong here). Their attempts on Sunday/Monday they had a 239.9/240.0 item level and Max also confirmed they gained exactly 3 item levels on the kill. I believe if they had 241.5, that might've sealed the deal as it was quoted somewhere that 1 item level is 1% of damage on average.

    Echo anticipated the right play to make and dedicated an entire day to splits only, this paid off very well for them.

  5. #3025
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    You realize <Pieces> got the world first for the hardest boss in the game right? There is definitely competition outside Echo and Limit. They're just much more efficient at maximizing splits, and gearing out. Without splits I think it would make for a much more interesting race.
    To be fair ex Method/Echo threw that race. Credit to Pieces for being there and make full use of it but Echo got Uu'nat to like 2%, 2 days before the Pieces kill and just couldn't finish him off due to sloppy play. I know they didn't really take that race as seriously and i think some players joined late because of the MDI but it was still quite funny how they colapsed under the preasure at the end in that tier.

  6. #3026
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    You realize <Pieces> got the world first for the hardest boss in the game right? There is definitely competition outside Echo and Limit. They're just much more efficient at maximizing splits, and gearing out. Without splits I think it would make for a much more interesting race.
    Uu'nat is a bit of an outlier, because nobody expected the boss to be that hard and the top guilds didn't seriously prepare for it - people had booked holidays or taken time off for other stuff, and so on. Plus it was such a short instance it wasn't really regarded as a "full" race like it would be on a new tier, and consequently they expected much less viewership etc.

    That's not to downplay Pieces and their achievement, of course - they rocked it, no question. But it's still an outlier for various reasons, and shouldn't be held up as a representative example of pretty much anything.

    A two-horse race has advantages and disadvantages. A simple 1v1 split can make things more exciting for viewers, because it's easier to keep track of a head-to-head as opposed to a bunch of contenders; and the viewership is more concentrated, so there's more engagement. The disadvantage is that it's less diverse, and that there's a risk of stale content as the "market" is divvied up amongst the big players. More competition keeps things fresh and interesting, and can serve as additional motivation.

    Personally, I don't think more than two real competitor teams is realistic right now. There'll be a lot of second-tier competitors that make for an interesting #3-10 race, but to challenge either Echo or Limit for #1 would require unrealistic amounts of investment, recruitment, and talent. China looked promising at first in that respect, but doesn't seem to be delivering (yet?); release delay doesn't help this. On EU and NA, there probably aren't enough players anymore to fill the rosters of more than two world-first guilds - not because there isn't enough talent, but because people talented and motivated enough to perform at that level probably make a lot more money doing something else.

  7. #3027
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefox72 View Post
    To be fair ex Method/Echo threw that race. Credit to Pieces for being there and make full use of it but Echo got Uu'nat to like 2%, 2 days before the Pieces kill and just couldn't finish him off due to sloppy play. I know they didn't really take that race as seriously and i think some players joined late because of the MDI but it was still quite funny how they colapsed under the preasure at the end in that tier.
    Method didn't really get affected by the MDI too hard. I just watched the replay, and they had all the usual players except Sco, which was probably better off anyways, only because Meeres, and Justwait are better. Oh Gingi wasn't there either I guess, that I can tell.

    I know Limit got affected big time though, they got like world 20th or so.
    Last edited by muto; 2021-07-21 at 11:15 AM.

  8. #3028
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    You realize <Pieces> got the world first for the hardest boss in the game right? There is definitely competition outside Echo and Limit. They're just much more efficient at maximizing splits, and gearing out. Without splits I think it would make for a much more interesting race.
    That was a one time thing where a lot of things didnt go well for Method or Limit. Pieces is far from a world first contestant currently, of course this can change.

  9. #3029
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobarj View Post
    You appear to be very salty about something. Limit did win the past two tiers with more than the hour difference, not sure why you're discounting them. They played good, arguably Painsmith was bad for them but other bosses they did OK.

    Anyhow, you're in the wrong forums if you think Blizzard is listening to you, go complain on the official forums instead.
    you mean the same forums that everyone posted how bad AP grind is, and blizzard ignore it during Legion beta? Yeah at least this forum isn't supervised by a company run by CEO who think i'm idiot and just walking bag of money who needs to be scammed from
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  10. #3030
    Very happy the best build and region won the race

  11. #3031
    Quote Originally Posted by Crushima View Post
    best build
    what do you mean?

  12. #3032
    Cool race, had high expectations after how difficult Painsmith was, and then it just dropped off after that, but I'm sure the guilds are happy they were done after one week.

    Will be interesting to see if Limit makes any changes personnel wise or if it was just a preparation thing.

  13. #3033
    Quote Originally Posted by killver View Post
    That was a one time thing where a lot of things didnt go well for Method or Limit. Pieces is far from a world first contestant currently, of course this can change.
    There was so much more to that tier as well, both guilds had people participating in the MDI. It was a 2-tier raid and probably not taken "as seriously". Pieces is an awesome guild in their own right, but I just don't think they are the S+ tier like Echo/Limit are today. They do sometimes do crazy stuff and kill bosses faster with interesting tactics.

    I can't really speak for the current Method, they just raid a lot and copy tactics so it's not hard to see why they're doing decent in my eyes.

  14. #3034
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuruption View Post
    Cool race, had high expectations after how difficult Painsmith was, and then it just dropped off after that, but I'm sure the guilds are happy they were done after one week.

    Will be interesting to see if Limit makes any changes personnel wise or if it was just a preparation thing.
    Sylvanas requires perfect play to kill her the first week, the fight is hard and last 15 min. I don't know what people wants more, the fight was perfectly tuned, you just need perfect execution and that's what echo did. Having to wait reset to kill a boss is just boring. It is probably the cleanest and the most perfect play in wow history, true gaming right there.

    Max said they didn't do as many splits as Echo because they expect the boss to die after the reset .... Great way to say US have big advantages after reset.

  15. #3035
    So guys, who do you think will take the last stand on the podium ?

  16. #3036
    Pandaren Monk Cren's Avatar
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    A bit curious about something. Does anyone know how people like Scripe and Max watch the others play when they lead them? Do they just watch the others live stream on Twitch? I mean there must be a tiny delay of watching that and then calling things out so they have time to react.
    Or do they use some other thing to watch the team play or isn't it an issue like i would think it is?

  17. #3037
    Quote Originally Posted by Cren View Post
    A bit curious about something. Does anyone know how people like Scripe and Max watch the others play when they lead them? Do they just watch the others live stream on Twitch? I mean there must be a tiny delay of watching that and then calling things out so they have time to react.
    Or do they use some other thing to watch the team play or isn't it an issue like i would think it is?
    There's a couple seconds of delay in some cases I think?

  18. #3038
    Quote Originally Posted by Cren View Post
    A bit curious about something. Does anyone know how people like Scripe and Max watch the others play when they lead them? Do they just watch the others live stream on Twitch? I mean there must be a tiny delay of watching that and then calling things out so they have time to react.
    Or do they use some other thing to watch the team play or isn't it an issue like i would think it is?
    They obviously don't use Twitch, it's not meant for this, there's too much delay (even 3 secs would not be bearable).

    They maybe have a dedicated server they send their data flow to and Scripe/Max use VLC or whatever to view it.

  19. #3039
    Pit Lord bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cren View Post
    A bit curious about something. Does anyone know how people like Scripe and Max watch the others play when they lead them? Do they just watch the others live stream on Twitch? I mean there must be a tiny delay of watching that and then calling things out so they have time to react.
    Or do they use some other thing to watch the team play or isn't it an issue like i would think it is?
    They are using some sort of third party application. After Limit got the kill yesterday, when they are handling the mount drop, you can see max right click on his screen to pull up a drop down menu that had all of the group listed and he switched to player who got the mounts view. The name of the exact application is unknown to me, but as an IT professional, we have a lot of applications we use in industry that allows viewing a screen in real time with no latency. The delay with a twitch stream or even a discord stream is too much to be useful in this situation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunyuns View Post
    They obviously don't use Twitch, it's not meant for this, there's too much delay (even 3 secs would not be bearable).

    They maybe have a dedicated server they send their data flow to and Scripe/Max use VLC or whatever to view it.
    VLC is my guess. They have active stream capture to a back end device, and then use VLC to watch the stream.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  20. #3040
    Quote Originally Posted by Cren View Post
    A bit curious about something. Does anyone know how people like Scripe and Max watch the others play when they lead them? Do they just watch the others live stream on Twitch? I mean there must be a tiny delay of watching that and then calling things out so they have time to react.
    Or do they use some other thing to watch the team play or isn't it an issue like i would think it is?
    basic screen sharing. The thing IT can use to watch your screen and help fix a problem.

    Watching on Twitch is useless because your dealing with a build in delay of ~a couple dozen seconds.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

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