Night Elf Lands Blocked to Horde

[Tanaria]

The problem we've got is that Blizzard hoped that everyone would jump onto BFA and cheer and yell either:
"For the Horde!!!" or "For the Alliance!!!"

They didn't, because majority of people are racial proud, not faction proud.

But if they are excluding night elf lands from the book, then night elf fans won't get an update - unless the next expansion is a Kalimdor/EK revamp.

[Nathreim]

I dont think the lands are literally blocked. The Night Elves dont have the strength to even hold Darkshore and had to abandon it for Hyjal which is more defensible. Its more of a diplomatic thing.

That said the Scourge and anything coming out of the Maw portal is a far greater threat right now so while Horde would likely not run into patrols in Ashenvale the Night Elves dont have to worry about the Horde either cause they are focused on Northrend. Besides the Horde Council is not going to support further conflict.

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The problem we've got is that Blizzard hoped that everyone would jump onto BFA and cheer and yell either:
"For the Horde!!!" or "For the Alliance!!!"

They didn't, because majority of people are racial proud, not faction proud.

But if they are excluding night elf lands from the book, then night elf fans won't get an update - unless the next expansion is a Kalimdor/EK revamp.

They didn't because BFA didn't give us anything to cheer about. The Horde had to endure MoP 2.0 finger wagging and losing beloved characters for nothing and the Alliance had to get kicked in the face again.


The War of Thornes was really jumping the shark. All we needed was the Alliance to learn Sylvanas was weaponizing Azeriite from SI7 and boom perfect reason to attack UC and start the war. No Alliance getting slapped in the face and the Horde is not the aggressor for once.

The worst thing is the cinematic gave us a false sense that maybe Sylvanas was going to turn around and maybe the Alliance wouldn't be push overs anymore and actually start doing something interesting. It was just a bait and switch and it makes me mad still that they took something so good and tainted it with lazy unimaginative writing.

[Tanaria]

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They didn't because BFA didn't give us anything to cheer about. The Horde had to endure MoP 2.0 finger wagging and losing beloved characters for nothing and the Alliance had to get kicked in the face again.


The War of Thornes was really jumping the shark. All we needed was the Alliance to learn Sylvanas was weaponizing Azeriite from SI7 and boom perfect reason to attack UC and start the war. No Alliance getting slapped in the face and the Horde is not the aggressor for once.

The worst thing is the cinematic gave us a false sense that maybe Sylvanas was going to turn around and maybe the Alliance wouldn't be push overs anymore and actually start doing something interesting. It was just a bait and switch and it makes me mad still that they took something so good and tainted it with lazy unimaginative writing.

The lazy approach is often the easier approach and the latter is something Blizzard does when their storytelling isn't hitting the mark with their playerbase.

I mean, they wrapped the faction war story pretty quick, because it wasn't popular and people were moaning about it. "Oh we best just end this now and move onto the Old God stuff." Lazy and...predictable.

But the other problem is that Blizzard are hoping to put names to expansions and hope that players will look past how bad the expansion is. I mean Shadowlands is awful, but "look guys, it's Sylvanas!!!" "look over there, it's Tyrande!!"

[baskev]

In the new Exploring Kalimdor book, Velen tells Zekhan and Rexxar that even as explorers and cartographers, they are not allowed into Night Elf lands "for clear reasons".

What does this spell out for any future expansion that takes place on EK or Kalimdor? We have yet to see an event that would really convince them to let the Horde players into their lands, and it runs against the ongoing theme of neutrality that seems like it will be continued in the future. See: Calia being groomed for the position of Forsaken queen, who likely would let Alliance in her lands.

Is this just a reason to hide Night Elf zone development from lore, or will this Night Elf blockade continue into the future?

What did rexxar and zekhan expect....oohhh welcome horde members that burned down our citie/homes , killed a shit ton of your people and had camps of death for them. Oohh and blighted the whole area etc etc.

Do not think its runs against the them of neutrality. I think its normal, decent story telling. Would be weider if they where allowed to past.

Calia, never think she was going to be one. Still think voss is the plan. As for alliance in their lands...forsaken where already trying to reconnect with the alliance brothers/sisters before bfa....so not a calia thing per se.


Is this a reason to hide it...Yes, because they need to fix it. Or atleast make it normal for night elves to go to. Since they ( knowing blizzard) have not planned that out yet ( most likely). Its easier this way.

And nope, because the heavy rumor is. And shown/told in shadowlands that time flows differently. And next expansion will be a time skip of sorts.
So we do not know what has happend.

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Blizzard also somehow didn't anticipate that a majority of Horde players would find both an unprovoked war and an attempted genocide reprehensible, just like they didn't anticipate that a significant chunk of Horde players wouldn't enjoy being made to defend it for the rest of the expansion and keep fighting by the side of the monster who ordered it. They are so out of touch with the player experience, it's unreal.

BFA destroyed 16 years of the Horde's redemption arc and there's no coming back from that. Its continued existence is a sad joke.

Yup. And the worst part is. A couple of quests could have fixxed that.

Per example: Make it so si 7 agents did something bad or got caught or something to give sylvannas a excuse.

[username993720]

Probably because they're still angry.

[Arrashi]

Are there even enough night elves left to actually do anything like that?

[geco]

Yup. And the worst part is. A couple of quests could have fixxed that.

Per example: Make it so si 7 agents did something bad or got caught or something to give sylvannas a excuse.

That still wouldn't justify Teldrazzil. Because the Kaldorei surrendered. There is a huge distance between killing Military and Military leaders with killing Civilians.
Not to mention that if there is an excuse that justifies Teldrazzil then there is no reason to reveal us. Sylvanas did nothing worse than Teldrazzil later.

What they should have done in any case is to show that Sylvanas and had all the leaders grabbed by the balls. Or even easier not to do all that Teldrazzil shit. Remove the two initial accessories and voila.
Sylvanas is not "bad" until she uses mind control.

[Kauko]

Blizzard has to stop with this bs already. There are two options

1. Remove Alliance / Horde barrier and merge the player base. Make wPVP warmode free4all in open world. There could also be some renegade spots for ex-Alliance and ex-Horde that wont submit to this new order and accept only True Alliance and True Horde players.

2. Just move back to the roots. Stop with this idiotic friends-enemies-friends-enemies-friends... What the hell? How many times will they be BFFs so that in the next expansion or book they are all killing each other...?

[Tanaria]

Blizzard also somehow didn't anticipate that a majority of Horde players would find both an unprovoked war and an attempted genocide reprehensible, just like they didn't anticipate that a significant chunk of Horde players wouldn't enjoy being made to defend it for the rest of the expansion and keep fighting by the side of the monster who ordered it. They are so out of touch with the player experience, it's unreal.

BFA destroyed 16 years of the Horde's redemption arc and there's no coming back from that. Its continued existence is a sad joke.

I'm afraid this is true and it lends itself to how Blizzard have responded to criticisms of their game, over recent weeks.

From what it seems to me, the people in charge of WoW have no love for WoW.

[GreenJesus]

That still wouldn't justify Teldrazzil. Because the Kaldorei surrendered. There is a huge distance between killing Military and Military leaders with killing Civilians.
Not to mention that if there is an excuse that justifies Teldrazzil then there is no reason to reveal us. Sylvanas did nothing worse than Teldrazzil later.

What they should have done in any case is to show that Sylvanas and had all the leaders grabbed by the balls. Or even easier not to do all that Teldrazzil shit. Remove the two initial accessories and voila.
Sylvanas is not "bad" until she uses mind control.

Yep. The Alliance kept genocidal roided aliens in internment camps instead of killing them back in the day. Sylvanas just got triggered by a dying elf and said "Burn it".

[sighy]

Blizzard also somehow didn't anticipate that a majority of Horde players would find both an unprovoked war and an attempted genocide reprehensible, just like they didn't anticipate that a significant chunk of Horde players wouldn't enjoy being made to defend it for the rest of the expansion and keep fighting by the side of the monster who ordered it. They are so out of touch with the player experience, it's unreal.

BFA destroyed 16 years of the Horde's redemption arc and there's no coming back from that. Its continued existence is a sad joke.

And pretty much nobody enjoyed what the hell the Sadfang "arc" was, which consumed huge parts of the budget on theatrical quality of cinematics, while only establishing that, in the end Horde is going to bend over, for God Emperor Anduin and his Human Potential.

[GreenJesus]

And pretty much nobody enjoyed what the hell the Sadfang "arc" was, which consumed huge parts of the budget on theatrical quality of cinematics, while only establishing that, in the end Horde is going to bend over, for God Emperor Anduin and his Human Potential.

1. Saurfang developed the plans to invade and occupy Night Elf Land while the bulk of the military was away in Silithus. Apparently honorable?
2. Saurfang was fine with killing scores of night elves using rogues and stealth. Apparently honorable?
3. Saurfang then throws an axe at the back of one of the most powerful druid demi-gods to save his warchief and then "feels bad" because it wasn't "honorable".. yet if he didn't do that the entire Horde campaign would have been killed and he would have been impossible to defeat otherwise.
4. Saurfang tried to commit suicide by cop and then let the Horde die at the hands of the Alliance. A general.. leaving the troops to face the onslaught without his direction.. What a great leader.
5. Saurfang stayed behind for no reason then got himself captured (Baine blames Sylvanas for this even though it was Saurfang's choice to stay behind?) and then moped around in a cell.
6. Saurfang refused to leave his cell when we tried to rescued him and then refused to do anything to help the horde until Anduin asked him to.
7. Managed to give Sylvanas a paper cut and then he got blasted into hell.
8. Talk about how Saurfang is sooo honorable and truly a great example of the Horde.

What a great story. Thank you Blizzard. Truly a lot of cubicle crawls while drunk were done to come up with this character arc.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

The story of the Horde in WOW was supposed to be about their redemption and how they shouldn't be resumed to their past and monstruous appearance, yet they constantly take the same path and commit terrible and inexcusable crimes and atrocities and make people like Genn Greymane, Catherine Rogers or Daelin Proudmoore justified.

The story of them repeating the same path and mistakes of the Old Horde was excusable one time with Garrosh, but the moment Sylvanas was made warchief it was certain that the Horde story and faction conflict were repeating themselves and going to shit.

[cirdanx]

I don't think any faction in the Warcraft universe has ever demanded reparations from another. And I don't think Night Elves want any orcs helping them rebuild. More than likely the Night Elves just wants the Horde to fuck off and never see have to see their tusked green faces again.

If the Alliance was allowed by the writers to dictate terms, then realistically this is what should happen. Dismantlement of the Horde war machine by smashing their industry, keeping them from massing armies, deporting the tribes that are too warlike, and a deprogramming period for the rest, and then after like 20-30 years the Alliance withdraws, having safely pacified their former enemies. Basically what the Allies did at the end of WW2.

As if the alliance "won" any war. Yeah....you are a bit off here. If it wouldn´t be for fan service, the "alliance" would be dead by now. But as usual, the deux ex "internal struggle makes Horde weak" weapon strug.

[VladlTutushkin]

I am now certain that Night Elves players actually bleed when their precious characters get hurt.

Forsaken fanbase still reels and convulses from mere notion of Calia and you expect NE fans to be calm and nice when they are essentially a whipping boy for Alliance and only content Blizz gives them is one or another variation of CBT?

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As if the alliance "won" any war. Yeah....you are a bit off here. If it wouldn´t be for fan service, the "alliance" would be dead by now. But as usual, the deux ex "internal struggle makes Horde weak" weapon strug.

And deus ex machina makes Alliance to 1) Do not use half of its power in any given war. 2) Be dumb enough to treat Horde as “misunderstood” future allies and not irredeemable monsters. 3) Do not use that internal struggle for anything other then signing a white peace.

[Kithelle]

In the new Exploring Kalimdor book, Velen tells Zekhan and Rexxar that even as explorers and cartographers, they are not allowed into Night Elf lands "for clear reasons".

What does this spell out for any future expansion that takes place on EK or Kalimdor? We have yet to see an event that would really convince them to let the Horde players into their lands, and it runs against the ongoing theme of neutrality that seems like it will be continued in the future. See: Calia being groomed for the position of Forsaken queen, who likely would let Alliance in her lands.

Is this just a reason to hide Night Elf zone development from lore, or will this Night Elf blockade continue into the future?

Development? LOL

Look how long it took them to fix Stormwind after Deathwing, I doubt they will be doing any development.

[cirdanx]

And deus ex machina makes Alliance to 1) Do not use half of its power in any given war. 2) Be dumb enough to treat Horde as “misunderstood” future allies and not irredeemable monsters. 3) Do not use that internal struggle for anything other then signing a white peace.

I don´t think you understand what „deus ex“ means.
1. They always used their power and lost.
2. Ha well thats point where i would say the alliance are monsters
3. White peace, the alliance would be dead if it wouldn´t be for sorry excuses from the „writing team“. And that is not because i favor a faction, it´s simple logic and the info we are given by „lore“.

[VladlTutushkin]

I don´t think you understand what „deus ex“ means.
1. They always used their power and lost.
2. Ha well thats point where i would say the alliance are monsters
3. White peace, the alliance would be dead if it wouldn´t be for sorry excuses from the „writing team“. And that is not because i favor a faction, it´s simple logic and the info we are given by „lore“.

Well, 90% of what you said is just false.

Horde is FAR from unstoppable, and judging Alliance by WoT is also not a good idea since it was a Pearl Harbor type attack on Horde’s side, and they were attacking a most vulnerable target in entire Alliance.

But by all means - do go on about how Horde is “unstoppable”. And “Alliance are monsters” lol. Call me when they genocide a horde race or three.

And finally - being politically fucked is also a legitimate weakness. USSR had more nukes and military power then they knew what to do with, but guess what? They fell apart due to inner political struggle and lost Cold War.

[sighy]

Pretty impossible to have a good arc about honor when the writers can't even decide what honor is supposed to stand for.



No different from how it bent over for God-Empress Sylvanas, and happily turned from a tribal confederation lead by a troll into an imperial state led by an elf, without anyone questioning it. BFA abandoned the Horde's previous characterization completely from the start, long before Anduin did anything.

The expansion that was sold on the concept of "Horde vs Alliance" instead delivered Generic Blue Empire vs Generic Red Empire without differentiating factors between them. And in the end none of it mattered, because all of it was merely a backdrop for Shadowlands setup

At latest by the start of Vanilla it transitioned into more of a federate capacity, with Orgrimmar, as the central seat of government, with Warchief holding absolute authority over the individual members. That never changed, until Sylvanas left for her plot mandated Shadowlands starting position. And her 8.2.5 duel proves that basically everyone was either retarded, traitor or complicit, up to that point. IF the expansion was well written it could have explored such a dynamic. Or given us an actual faction war, which escalated to that point organically. But setting up Shadowlands was apparently more important than all fundamental aspects of decent storytelling.


My God Emperor Anduin point was regarding the conceptual quality of the cinematics and their contribution to the overall narrative, in that it was an absolute waste of time and undermined any hope of the Horde having anything other than finger waggling that they're not blue enough. (I think that Anduin is where interesting stories go to die, for Aliance too)

[Syegfryed]

What that means to the future? nothing, anything will be neglected/ignored/retconed as the new expansion come up and new plots come

Like, a lot of stuff int he books is just completely ignored or straight up retconed, see the Sylvanas book with her inner monologue.

I am now certain that Night Elves players actually bleed when their precious characters get hurt.

Elf fans are always the most hysterical, thinking everything is a sin committed to then