FFXIV Spoiler thread

[ippollite]

I saw the Y'shtola is Hythlodaeus theory for the first time yesterday on r/ffxiv. Not sure how I feel about it. I know we don't get that much exposure to Hythlodaeus, but what little we do I struggle to see any similarities between the two in terms of personality. Plus, as far as I know, her aether "ability" (or rather blindness that's rendered her unable to see anything but aether) is a result of her using Flow, not an innate talent. I feel like it's a stretch based on an emote that's the same animation as my Au Ra has. It's not unique like Emet's hand wave.

I am curious about G'raha though. He's quoted both Emet (word for word) and Elidibus, though only the latter was noticed by the WoL.

Im gonna add one more piece of info though... Y'stola is the only character with a literal death-clock. She is going to die. Probably in Endwalker (but im sure everyone said the same thing during stormblood and shadowbringers). And suddenly a character with her mannerisms appears in shb who also appears only when necessary... (not to bring back the rich streams - but he often remarked how she was conspicuously absent throughout both sb and shb (and hw to be clear) - and he also mentioned her sudden sassy personality change during shb).

But yeah, i get it. She is rational, clear, and direct (to an absolute fault). Hythlodaeus is vague, open and misleading/misdirecting (which points strongly to urianger/crystal exarch). Im chasing chimera, but her character is transitioning and becoming more like her master (which the broom scene really bashes on the nose). Her master is obviously guarded as fuck. I just feeeeeeeel that she has to die soon enough. Its been set up and cant not be paid off indefinitely. But Hytholodaeus is one of the best mysteries in game. And a recurring character. And Y'stola is arguably the most beloved scion.

I accept this is an emotional appeal and not entirely rational. But gra'ha... doesnt have a countdown over his head. Y'stola does. And she shares animations. And she turns up only when required, and she isnt the logical sidekick, but the one who actually changes shit, and she has a color emet recognises, and she can see ether trails, and she is someone emet would even deign to save, and that she'd constantly put spanners in his plans, and that she'd need a cat nap just as elidibus takes us on a journey, but awaken at the end of the journey just in time to disappear to fetch her bags.. then reappear as we collect the final stone as we finish our discussion with hytholdaeus. I mean, im not saying this all boils down to the fact we havent seen ystola and hythlodaeus ever in the same room at the same time. But... she was literally there, then she wasnt. Then she was... (:

"And she turns up only when required, and she isnt the logical sidekick, but the one who actually changes shit,..."

Hang on, i should 'temper' this. She offers only guidance. She doesn't change things, per se, but influences them.

If there is one thing pulling me back its 'the echo'...
But then... i remember elidibus indirectly explaining this when he revealed the sundered inn keepers. They dont have the echo, but theyre nevertheless implied to be sundered amaurothians. Which i guess makes me curious about what the difference is? ...and hythlodaeus never was part of the convocation? Which is odd, because its not like theyve run out of members in game. From a pure narrative perspective, they could easily be one of the 14. That they aren't feels important... for some reason.

[Katchii]

Why is Y'shtola supposedly "on a clock"? I don't get where that's coming from, much less it being enough to base an entire theory on.

It's stated in Heavensward, when she comes back and her eye color is changed she's expending her own aether to "see" which shortens her lifespan. We don't know exactly how shortened it is.

I wouldn't say she's "on a clock."

[Lane]

No one has seen Hythlodaeus except for the WoL. His character had the disadvantage of being conjured by Emet, so we only essentially see a memory rendition of him that was accidentally given some form of sentience. Even still, he came across as warm in the game and a teaser in the short story. I got the impression back in the day he, Emet, and Azem were BFFs. This was animated nicely if you haven't seen it.

Emet recognizes everyone's soul, that's part of his talent and why he was invited into the Convocation, originally the seat of Emet-Selch was offered to Hythlodaeus who turned it down.



As for Y'shtola, she seems to be FFXIV's main marketing material so I'll be surprised if they kill her. I like her, but she's not my first, second, or even third favorite Scion. My list would be G'raha (albeit a recent addition), Thancred, and Estinien (if he counts).

[Katchii]

Anyone who thinks Y'shtola is going to die is a bit crazy considering how she's marketed. She has a freaking $1000 doll being made. I'm not saying it's impossible, I just don't see her going anywhere.

Why does anyone HAVE to die anyway? I never got that logic.

[Lane]

Supposedly one of the Japanese VAs let it slip that they would no longer be playing their character after reading the EW script, so there's speculation at least someone dies this time.

Feel free to PM me if you want to know, I'm going to make it more effort than a spoiler tag. :P This was something I saw on Reddit with no link given, so take it with a grain of salt too.

[Dakhath]

Anyone who thinks Y'shtola is going to die is a bit crazy considering how she's marketed. She has a freaking $1000 doll being made. I'm not saying it's impossible, I just don't see her going anywhere.

Why does anyone HAVE to die anyway? I never got that logic.

This. She is the least likely Scion to die. She's the face of the game in Japan, the only market SE really cares about, and just because shes slowly dying doesn't mean its like 3 months away. She could live 30 years instead of 50.

[Katchii]

I know I've talked about this in previous posts at length, so I'm sure people have read it all before. Nevertheless!

It's less "have to die" and more the fact that a lot of drama and tension gets removed when you know NO ONE can die. When you know everyone has more plot armor than Tyrion Lannister.

When you can watch a cutscene where a character is in the most dire of circumstances, when the music is sad and dramatic, when the characters are saying their tearful farewells, when a nuclear device is blown up in their face, when Jesus himself comes down and says their soul is in heaven now...and you're STILL sitting there saying, "Yeah, nothing is happening here."...maybe the game has given the characters a bit too much plot armor and trained the viewer accordingly.

Oh, I don't disagree. But that still doesn't mean someone HAS to die. It means they should stop doing that with those characters.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Supposedly one of the Japanese VAs let it slip that they would no longer be playing their character after reading the EW script, so there's speculation at least someone dies this time.

Or it could be that after Endwalker, the surviving Scions disband and go their separate ways, and we go on to new adventures with a brand new cast. Either way, that's good news for me.

[ippollite]

I guess i got carried away with the idea... (: i'll file it under headcannon until squeex tells me who hythlodaeus actually is (in their sundered form). One of the nice things about this game is it eventually (mostly) gives you the answer to whats going on. Even if it maybe takes an expansion or two.

[Lane]

That seems incredibly unlikely.

I could see SOME of the scions being put on the back burner for a time as occasionally happens, but they're not just going to up and wipe the slate clean. Not when there's such a fandom around many of the characters.

I would think/hope so too, but judging by the comments I frequently see on Reddit many believe that EW is going to wipe the slate clean. The general consensus seems to be that 6.0 will wrap up everything and then 6.1 will start the WoL's new journey. Supposedly this is based on what's been said in interviews.

I don't know what purpose the Scions serve without the threat of primals or Ascians. It makes sense for G'raha to tag along, he's got nothing going on anymore, but not so much the others. The twins have mostly been following in their grandfather's footsteps to save Eorzea, that'll be done. Y'shtola acted like she wanted to go back to the First. Thancred is the one most theorized to die because his arc is considered over in ShB. Tataru's running the fort. I have no idea about Urianger or Krile. Estinien (if he's even an offical Scion) will just go back to doing what Estinien does.

[Thestrawman]

I would think/hope so too, but judging by the comments I frequently see on Reddit many believe that EW is going to wipe the slate clean. The general consensus seems to be that 6.0 will wrap up everything and then 6.1 will start the WoL's new journey. Supposedly this is based on what's been said in interviews.

Not so much an interview but what was said by Yoshi P. during the expansion showcase in February(?). 6.0 will be the end of the Hydaelyn/Zodiark storyline and 6.1 will begin the next.

[dope_danny]

Anyone who thinks Y'shtola is going to die is a bit crazy considering how she's marketed. She has a freaking $1000 doll being made. I'm not saying it's impossible, I just don't see her going anywhere.

Why does anyone HAVE to die anyway? I never got that logic.

Japanese storytelling tropes. My money is on Urianger since he is the only one with no family ties.

[Katchii]

Japanese storytelling tropes. My money is on Urianger since he is the only one with no family ties.

We'll see I guess. I don't think anyone is going to die personally, especially not Y'shtola, but I can totally see the Scions going their separate ways for a while which would explain the VA not working on the game anymore. Even if that character were still around, but only as a minor character, if they never had any voiced lines you wouldn't need a VA for them.

[dope_danny]

We'll see I guess. I don't think anyone is going to die personally, especially not Y'shtola, but I can totally see the Scions going their separate ways for a while which would explain the VA not working on the game anymore. Even if that character were still around, but only as a minor character, if they never had any voiced lines you wouldn't need a VA for them.

My guess is that sharlayan is planning to doomsday bunker the terminus and hope to outlive it, have used the twins mother as the heart of Anima which powers it and after the events of 6.0 theres going to be a big reform and Ysh'tola is going to take their fathers place because Matoya is either too old and crabby or she is the one that bites it pulling a Louisoux near the end. It gives her something logical she would do and removes her from the story party without killing her off.

My honest expectation is 6.1 is a brief timeskip and the only people still working immediately with our character will be Allisae and Graha.

[Katchii]

My guess is that sharlayan is planning to doomsday bunker the terminus and hope to outlive it, have used the twins mother as the heart of Anima which powers it and after the events of 6.0 theres going to be a big reform and Ysh'tola is going to take their fathers place because Matoya is either too old and crabby or she is the one that bites it pulling a Louisoux near the end. It gives her something logical she would do and removes her from the story party without killing her off.

My honest expectation is 6.1 is a brief timeskip and the only people still working immediately with our character will be Allisae and Graha.

I'm on board with Sharlayan being the reason for the shake-up. Not sure about the rest, as I don't think Anima will be in Sharlayan, but I do think that a shake-up in Sharlayan leadership will be what draws a Scion away from the group.

Matoya seems likely as a death given her age, but again we'll see. I'm not sold on a character death being the reason a VA is leaving, as a character doesn't need to die for their VA to leave they just need to be reduced to a minor character that doesn't get VA lines. Not saying a character death can't or won't happen, it IS plausible, I'm just not 100% convinced that's the reason the VA leaves.

I do absolutely think that Graha and Allisaie will follow the WoL anywhere they go, though. Regardless of who else leaves or separates from the Scions, those two aren't leaving our side. Estinien isn't going anywhere either, I don't think, he JUST joined.

[Lane]

The twins are going to need to be off-screen for awhile at some point to grow into adults. Aren't they ~18 now? I believe Urianger said he was 20 before he was full grown and implied he was a late bloomer.

[Graeham]

It's a matter of balance, really. We have a very bloated cast of characters and there's very little room for new characters to show up and have their time to shine. For example, the bulk of the cast we interacted with frequently during Shadowbringers just so happened to be those we've already spent plenty of time with already. Sure, we met other characters along the way who were native to Norvrandt but...every single one of them was quietly shuffled off once the story in the First concluded.

Too much death risks the story becoming like Game of Thrones where intriguing characters are eliminated only for a lucky few to survive against all odds and then subsequently become the most unrealistic characters as a consequence of stupid amounts of plot armour. On the other hand, too little death and the story becomes a soppy, melodramatic experience. It grows grating watching the main characters screech about how they've lost 'so much' when their losses are but a drop in the ocean compared to what the sympathetic antagonists have endured.

I do hope to see a significant portion of the main cast retired at the very least. I want new faces and a greater variety of character tropes in play.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I'm not sold on a character death being the reason a VA is leaving, as a character doesn't need to die for their VA to leave they just need to be reduced to a minor character that doesn't get VA lines. Not saying a character death can't or won't happen, it IS plausible, I'm just not 100% convinced that's the reason the VA leaves.

I could believe that Matoya could have been written out of the story if 1. it was the Japanese VA who died, and 2. FFXIV wasn't big internationally. VAs are huge celebrities in Japan and when you win the audition for a character, that character is yours pretty much forever, and it's common for non-essential characters to be written out of a story if their VA passes away or is unavailable. It seems that a character's VA is only replaced if the VA becomes unavailable and but the character is essential to the story (ie, an ongoing adaptation rather than an original work).

I'm on board with Sharlayan being the reason for the shake-up. Not sure about the rest, as I don't think Anima will be in Sharlayan, but I do think that a shake-up in Sharlayan leadership will be what draws a Scion away from the group.

I'm thinking that the Sharlayan Forum is in league with Zenos. IIRC when we first saw the inside of a tower dungeon when Endwalker was revealed earlier this year, we saw the Sharlayan symbol in the middle of a floor. I think the Forum constructed the towers, or at least was responsible for the core tech of it and the Garleans assembled the rest. I don't buy Fourchenault being an antagonist at all. Since the Forum's vote was apparently unanimous, I think Fourchenault saw which way the wind was blowing and publicly voted to agree with the rest of the Forum's plan so suspicion isn't cast upon him. He plans to use his power and position to sabotage the Forum's plan at an opportune moment, but this will totally kill the Leveilleur family name. Dad stripped his children of the name so they wouldn't be associated with the infamy of whatever he is about to do, as well as to maybe help secure his cover more since the Forum might question the fact that their leader has family members doing stuff they don't like.

used the twins mother as the heart of Anima

Interesting idea.

[dope_danny]

Interesting idea.

That "how is mother?" "....shes fine" bit from the last patch was way too suspect. I'm expecting some real "the greater good" style villainy going on in Sharlayan. This is the writer behind "Meol is made of people" after all.

[Katchii]

I could believe that Matoya could have been written out of the story if 1. it was the Japanese VA who died, and 2. FFXIV wasn't big internationally. VAs are huge celebrities in Japan and when you win the audition for a character, that character is yours pretty much forever, and it's common for non-essential characters to be written out of a story if their VA passes away or is unavailable. It seems that a character's VA is only replaced if the VA becomes unavailable and but the character is essential to the story (ie, an ongoing adaptation rather than an original work).

The only VA death I'm aware of is the one for Edmont de Fortemps.

https://www.fanbyte.com/news/ffxiv-d...ritchlow-dies/

So I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that it's a death driving the change.

And the Japanese VA that MIGHT be leaving is the one for Thancred.

https://finalweapon.net/2021/07/25/f...g-mindblowing/

I'm thinking that the Sharlayan Forum is in league with Zenos. IIRC when we first saw the inside of a tower dungeon when Endwalker was revealed earlier this year, we saw the Sharlayan symbol in the middle of a floor. I think the Forum constructed the towers, or at least was responsible for the core tech of it and the Garleans assembled the rest. I don't buy Fourchenault being an antagonist at all. Since the Forum's vote was apparently unanimous, I think Fourchenault saw which way the wind was blowing and publicly voted to agree with the rest of the Forum's plan so suspicion isn't cast upon him. He plans to use his power and position to sabotage the Forum's plan at an opportune moment, but this will totally kill the Leveilleur family name. Dad stripped his children of the name so they wouldn't be associated with the infamy of whatever he is about to do, as well as to maybe help secure his cover more since the Forum might question the fact that their leader has family members doing stuff they don't like.

Interesting thought, but not at all where I think it's going. I honestly think Sharlayan has its head so far up its own ass it truly doesn't know what's coming and thinks they know better and we come in and shake things up.

We'll see which way it goes.