FFXIV Spoiler thread

[Drindorai]

Edit: And i said i skipped mostly (meaning a lot) not everything. I think telling other people their style of play is asinine is... well asinine.

Skipping any dialogue in the role quests is stupid. It serves no purpose other than to progress the story.

So to do so loses any respect of the person commenting on it.

Sorry if the truth has upset you.

Especially when, seemingly, you had no reason to do so other than to just have it marked as completed. If that's the case, why are you even playing FF14 if you're just skipping everything to get to the ending?

Warcraft seems the appropriate place for you if that's the case.

[Pannonian]

Skipping any dialogue in the role quests is stupid. It serves no purpose other than to progress the story.

So to do so loses any respect of the person commenting on it.

Sorry if the truth has upset you.

Especially when, seemingly, you had no reason to do so other than to just have it marked as completed. If that's the case, why are you even playing FF14 if you're just skipping everything to get to the ending?

Warcraft seems the appropriate place for you if that's the case.

It seems your reading comprehension is severely lacking:

1. There is a reason as i stated: Being able to dye your class gear.

2. I skipped none of the Main Story or the other role quests i did, and i didn't skip everything in the healer role quest as i stated in 2 posts. So no idea where your "skipping everything" comes from.

So, please clam down.

[Merie]

I think the villains were fairly weak this time around. Yeah, a 11th hour villain is a FF trope. But for me the issue is less that Meteion comes out of no where and more that I just wasn't sold on Meteion as a villain nearly as much as Emet Selch. Her voice doesn't pack any of the crazy amount of charisma that Emet Selch does and comes off as grating. Emet Selch was a very original villain, where as Meteion and Hermes seem like retreads of Kefka and Seymour. The reasons for her conclusions seem more forced than natural and i wasn't completely sold on them like I was sold on Emet Selch's. The beats of the finale almost seem like a copy paste of ShB, which feels lesser for it. And while the plot all felt so organic and logical in ShB, EW's story seems extremely forced and coincidental.

The narrative has to bend itself in all kinds of different directions to make it work that fly in the face of logic. And I do think people give a pass to the double paradox because the characters in it were so good, which is also why they can't forgive the final villain for just not being up to par. Hermes' motivations are so poorly sold that even Emet Selch calls them out as sophistry. And he's RIGHT. And Zenos? It was a great moment having a fight with him in the end! But beyond that he's spent YEARS basically meandering around, sitting in chairs and sleeping. Square had to move mountains to keep this character propped up and I'm not sure the lone solo duty was worth it.

and nobody has touched on this yet, but Hermes is MASSIVELY overpowered. Every villain that shifts into a super form is dramatically weakened after getting their ass kicked. But the very idea that Hermes, after getting his ass kicked, is still somehow able to tank hard hitting blows from Venat, a character who can hold her own against the WoL, while also swatting away spells from Emet Selch with ease simultaneously, is LUDICROUS. Venat and Emet Selch may have been two of, if not the most powerful combatants on the planet. There is ZERO reason some marine biologist wouldn't get steamrolled instantly in the face of such an offense, much less after getting his butt kicked already. There is no way they wouldn't be able to break whatever feeble chains he'd still be able to summon instantly after being so drained. Now I get why his crazy over the top plot armor had to basically be made out of Gundanium as the plot needed it to happen in order to make the story work. But that, and many other instances, are the crux of why it doesn't. Or at least, doesn't work as well as ShB.

On a side note, I think the choice of music in places were pretty poor. Early on the forum is explaining their efforts to save humanity in good faith but super evul bad guy music is playing which was such a head scratcher. And while people give ShB flack for the high treason theme looping in the final arc of kolusia, that them was epic where as the theme that loops in while getting the Ark ready is awful. The music in kolusia got you pumped, and played into the narrative of closing in on the final light warden. The music here in contrast was making my ears bleed. While I'm spending half an hour trying to find a bunch of stupid engineers. This whole sequence is SO much worse than phase 2 Kolusia. The worst sin in the expack has to be the Elpis dungeon. Soken has always done a brilliant job of advancing the tone of the moment with his music that the elpis dungeon was shocking in its misstep. Everything immediately before and after the dungeon is so full of dread. That the dungeon itself sounds all so quirky and upbeat flies in the face of what is happening. The soundtrack should have been ramping up the dread that something horrifying is about to go down and we need to hurry if we to stop it. But it doesn't. It's like if the Amaurot dungeon had upbeat music instead of the legendary track it got.

[TidalConflux]

Skipping any dialogue in the role quests is stupid. It serves no purpose other than to progress the story.

So to do so loses any respect of the person commenting on it.

Sorry if the truth has upset you.

Especially when, seemingly, you had no reason to do so other than to just have it marked as completed. If that's the case, why are you even playing FF14 if you're just skipping everything to get to the ending?

Warcraft seems the appropriate place for you if that's the case.

Sorry, but it seems like these Role Quests are very phoned in. I finished Ranged PDPS role quests in Doma -- didnt skip anything, and the entire time I never felt like the Final Days ever mattered in this region. I get that its supposed to be an analogy of grief and handling grief healthy, which is fine and completely understandable. But with the overarching threat of the Final Days -- the WoL comes across 1 overarching blasphemy who is non-combative and 1 blasphemy who is killed at the first quest.

I just dont think the story background and theme translates well into this quest line. Like comparing it to ShB of tracking down powerful Lightwardens inhabiting the former WoL's of the first, this feels a lot like filler off the experience I've had so far. It could just be a dud, but I will do all 5 and see.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

and nobody has touched on this yet, but Hermes is MASSIVELY overpowered. Every villain that shifts into a super form is dramatically weakened after getting their ass kicked. But the very idea that Hermes, after getting his ass kicked, is still somehow able to tank hard hitting blows from Venat, a character who can hold her own against the WoL, while also swatting away spells from Emet Selch with ease simultaneously, is LUDICROUS. Venat and Emet Selch may have been two of, if not the most powerful combatants on the planet. There is ZERO reason some marine biologist wouldn't get steamrolled instantly in the face of such an offense, much less after getting his butt kicked already. There is no way they wouldn't be able to break whatever feeble chains he'd still be able to summon instantly after being so drained. Now I get why his crazy over the top plot armor had to basically be made out of Gundanium as the plot needed it to happen in order to make the story work. But that, and many other instances, are the crux of why it doesn't. Or at least, doesn't work as well as ShB.

I noticed Endwalker had a pretty bad case of cutscene incompetence.

The scions have a dragoon who can instantaneously reach his target and propel himself with so much force he can break through the magical scales of a wrym of the first brood, and yet he is always blocked from doing so.




The WoL somehow takes 30 seconds to "run" (more like walk veeery sloooowly) 10 meters and doesn't save a guy in time, when literally every single class in the game has some sort of ranged attack that could've distracted the monster, could have used a gap closer, or could have simply sprinted.




Agreed on the misuse of the music. I am also not keen on the high number of pop songs this expansion. They were cool when we got one every now and then, but we have... what? 3 or 4, maybe 5 pop songs this time? It's starting to become like Utawarerumono, where you have a ton of insert pop songs but they all flow together.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, but it seems like these Role Quests are very phoned in. I finished Ranged PDPS role quests in Doma -- didnt skip anything, and the entire time I never felt like the Final Days ever mattered in this region. I get that its supposed to be an analogy of grief and handling grief healthy, which is fine and completely understandable. But with the overarching threat of the Final Days -- the WoL comes across 1 overarching blasphemy who is non-combative and 1 blasphemy who is killed at the first quest.

I just dont think the story background and theme translates well into this quest line. Like comparing it to ShB of tracking down powerful Lightwardens inhabiting the former WoL's of the first, this feels a lot like filler off the experience I've had so far. It could just be a dud, but I will do all 5 and see.

The Endwalker rolequests also don't make much sense if you've beaten the 6.0 MSQ, because there is no longer a a cosmic force that is directing the sum total of all Dynamis in the universe towards Etheirys to turn people who have despaired into monsters. The ShB rolequests did make sense to do before and after beating the 5.0 MSQ, as the MSQ did not end with the destruction of all Sin Eaters, so there could still be some floating around.

[Maljinwo]

The Endwalker rolequests also don't make much sense if you've beaten the 6.0 MSQ, because there is no longer a a cosmic force that is directing the sum total of all Dynamis in the universe towards Etheirys to turn people who have despaired into monsters. The ShB rolequests did make sense to do before and after beating the 5.0 MSQ, as the MSQ did not end with the destruction of all Sin Eaters, so there could still be some floating around.

Fairly sure they mentioned that even without Meteion, some beasts could remain behind and would need to be taken care of

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Fairly sure they mentioned that even without Meteion, some beasts could remain behind and would need to be taken care of

True, but in the melee DPS and tank rolequests, you have people turning into Blashemies during the events of the quest. I haven't done the others yet, so IDK.

[Dakhath]

Only did the tank role quest so far to completion and I cannot put into words how little I care about Kan-E-Senna. But lets be honest here, they were never going to top cardinal virtues.

[Tojara]

I think the villains were fairly weak this time around. Yeah, a 11th hour villain is a FF trope. But for me the issue is less that Meteion comes out of no where and more that I just wasn't sold on Meteion as a villain nearly as much as Emet Selch. Her voice doesn't pack any of the crazy amount of charisma that Emet Selch does and comes off as grating. Emet Selch was a very original villain, where as Meteion and Hermes seem like retreads of Kefka and Seymour. The reasons for her conclusions seem more forced than natural and i wasn't completely sold on them like I was sold on Emet Selch's. The beats of the finale almost seem like a copy paste of ShB, which feels lesser for it. And while the plot all felt so organic and logical in ShB, EW's story seems extremely forced and coincidental.

I agree, but I don't really think aside from the super early FF games (and maybe the later ones on PS3 onwards), that trope is used as much as people think. FF6 and FF8 don't have 11th hour villains. While one could say that Kefka truly doesn't become the "villain" until half way through the game, it's pretty obvious that the potential of him being so much more starts manifesting earlier in the game. It wasn't bad, but the build up towards Meteion still didn't feel as impactful to me. For a series with five installments I think having the main villain appear in the "11th hour" does it sort of a disservice.

While similar in certain attitudes, I don't really see Kefka and Hermes being similar at all. Kefka poised a similar question to the party and the world during FF6, but really didn't care if there was an answer to it at all. He was warped and had no redeemable traits what so ever, and his depravity only grew as the game went on. Hermes was a lot different IMO.

The narrative has to bend itself in all kinds of different directions to make it work that fly in the face of logic. And I do think people give a pass to the double paradox because the characters in it were so good, which is also why they can't forgive the final villain for just not being up to par. Hermes' motivations are so poorly sold that even Emet Selch calls them out as sophistry. And he's RIGHT. And Zenos? It was a great moment having a fight with him in the end! But beyond that he's spent YEARS basically meandering around, sitting in chairs and sleeping. Square had to move mountains to keep this character propped up and I'm not sure the lone solo duty was worth it.

Yeah the time travel likely could've been approached differently, but as you said, the characters are some of the best in the series (sorry for those of you who really want people to like the scion characters more) so it gets a pass. I suppose there's still room for them to change stuff up in the patches to follow 6.0, so we will see I guess? I too laughed when Emet-Selch gave Hermes a beat down on his motivation during Elpis lol.

I'm actually not sure what bringing Zenos back after SB actually does had they just left him dead? Other characters could've assassinated the Emperor and another dragon could've been written in to carry you on it's back towards the conclusion of EW as well. Fandaniel/Amon certainly didn't need Zenos around to accomplish anything, and he spent most of his time mulling about doing virtually nothing. I thought it was cool when he burst through, but I'm sure square could've shifted the narrative around and had Midgardsorm be the one to burst through that wall (which would've been way cooler, and I'm sure there was a way to do it to make it make sense).

and nobody has touched on this yet, but Hermes is MASSIVELY overpowered. Every villain that shifts into a super form is dramatically weakened after getting their ass kicked. But the very idea that Hermes, after getting his ass kicked, is still somehow able to tank hard hitting blows from Venat, a character who can hold her own against the WoL, while also swatting away spells from Emet Selch with ease simultaneously, is LUDICROUS. Venat and Emet Selch may have been two of, if not the most powerful combatants on the planet. There is ZERO reason some marine biologist wouldn't get steamrolled instantly in the face of such an offense, much less after getting his butt kicked already. There is no way they wouldn't be able to break whatever feeble chains he'd still be able to summon instantly after being so drained. Now I get why his crazy over the top plot armor had to basically be made out of Gundanium as the plot needed it to happen in order to make the story work. But that, and many other instances, are the crux of why it doesn't. Or at least, doesn't work as well as ShB.

I think the WoL wasn't in their natural state during Elpis, and even somebody as measly as Hermes becomes massively more powerful when they transform. So him being far more powerful and catching Venat and Emet-Selch off guard doesn't really bother me that much. That being said they're still logical characters and at the end of the day they aren't trying to hurt Hermes at all (and probably trying to play around with what he's up to, especially given what the WoL character told them earlier in the zone).

On a side note, I think the choice of music in places were pretty poor. Early on the forum is explaining their efforts to save humanity in good faith but super evul bad guy music is playing which was such a head scratcher. And while people give ShB flack for the high treason theme looping in the final arc of kolusia, that them was epic where as the theme that loops in while getting the Ark ready is awful. The music in kolusia got you pumped, and played into the narrative of closing in on the final light warden. The music here in contrast was making my ears bleed. While I'm spending half an hour trying to find a bunch of stupid engineers. This whole sequence is SO much worse than phase 2 Kolusia. The worst sin in the expack has to be the Elpis dungeon. Soken has always done a brilliant job of advancing the tone of the moment with his music that the elpis dungeon was shocking in its misstep. Everything immediately before and after the dungeon is so full of dread. That the dungeon itself sounds all so quirky and upbeat flies in the face of what is happening. The soundtrack should have been ramping up the dread that something horrifying is about to go down and we need to hurry if we to stop it. But it doesn't. It's like if the Amaurot dungeon had upbeat music instead of the legendary track it got.

I don't think it was that bad, although there were moments where the creepy music played when it didn't really make a whole lot of sense.

Music is kind of hard to judge anyway. Other people cream their pants over the music that plays on Ultima Thule at the end, while I dislike it immensely. I know the lyrics of the EW main motif, but it still feels slightly off after your allies save you in the prayer section at the end of EW (IMO anyway). The main medley playing all of the other themes during parts of the last boss is really nice though.

[Drindorai]

The Endwalker rolequests also don't make much sense if you've beaten the 6.0 MSQ, because there is no longer a a cosmic force that is directing the sum total of all Dynamis in the universe towards Etheirys to turn people who have despaired into monsters

Which is why Yoshi-P directly said they should be done as you do the story, not after.

Also they do establish that there are blasphemies potentially still roaming around and not 100% of them have been killed yet.

But I can see the nitpicking has commenced and I'm not interested in participating in Val being angry their bad headcanon didn't happen and whining about every perceived little slight.

[Merie]

I'm actually not sure what bringing Zenos back after SB actually does had they just left him dead? Other characters could've assassinated the Emperor and another dragon could've been written in to carry you on it's back towards the conclusion of EW as well. Fandaniel/Amon certainly didn't need Zenos around to accomplish anything, and he spent most of his time mulling about doing virtually nothing. I thought it was cool when he burst through, but I'm sure square could've shifted the narrative around and had Midgardsorm be the one to burst through that wall (which would've been way cooler, and I'm sure there was a way to do it to make it make sense).

Varis didn't need assassinating. He's the most wasted character in the whole game. Absolutely deserved better than to be casually cast aside without the WoL present after he had been a constant presence since HW. My heart will always break that we didn't get a Garlean expansion before they self distructed. 4.5 was the perfect setup. But certainly Fanny could have done Varis in if Zenos had been allowed to RIP. There's no reason Fanny couldn't have taken Zenos' skin himself either after Elidibus bit the dust. For all the asspulls in EW, midgardsormr doing it probably would have been the least among them considering he self revives in Graha's failed timeline. He also would have taken great offense to the state his kin wallowing in Thule. If nothing else I'm sure Vrtra could have helped instead of Zenos. If not out of respect for all the WoL did to help his people, then simply because his beloved people would have no future if the WoL failed.

[Tojara]

Varis didn't need assassinating. He's the most wasted character in the whole game. Absolutely deserved better than to be casually cast aside without the WoL present after he had been a constant presence since HW. My heart will always break that we didn't get a Garlean expansion before they self distructed. 4.5 was the perfect setup. But certainly Fanny could have done Varis in if Zenos had been allowed to RIP. There's no reason Fanny couldn't have taken Zenos' skin himself either after Elidibus bit the dust. For all the asspulls in EW, midgardsormr doing it probably would have been the least among them considering he self revives in Graha's failed timeline. He also would have taken great offense to the state his kin wallowing in Thule. If nothing else I'm sure Vrtra could have helped instead of Zenos. If not out of respect for all the WoL did to help his people, then simply because his beloved people would have no future if the WoL failed.

Well, my opinion was just that Zenos could've been written out entirely (following SB). Sure, Varis could've lived longer and we had a proper Garlean expansion, I was more or less stating that the events (except how the conclusion was written) could have manifested without Zenos being present at all, Fandaniel certainly had the power to do so and the only thing holding him back was presumably Emet-Selch and Elidibus.

That's mostly me stating a timeline that obviously didn't happen. The entirety of Midgardsorms clutch coming together to bring him back as a primal doing the same thing that Zenos did (gorging on the remnants of the the Mothercrystal) would've worked.

It was still fun to beat Zenos ass into the ground at the end. Needed? Not really. The option to just simply walk away and let him die there would've been great as well TBH.

[KrayZ33]

Which is why Yoshi-P directly said they should be done as you do the story, not after.

Also they do establish that there are blasphemies potentially still roaming around and not 100% of them have been killed yet.

But I can see the nitpicking has commenced and I'm not interested in participating in Val being angry their bad headcanon didn't happen and whining about every perceived little slight.

People in the melee-DPS rolequest still transform though.
And who gives a damn about what Yoshi said regarding these quests?

Do you expect people to follow every interview/developer note or something?
Don't be silly please.
The melee-DPS one is absolutely horrible to play through when you have finished the MSQ already.
Completely out of sync and there is no saving grace or potential way of saying "oh this could've happened after all this"

Compared to the ShB version of the same rolequest, which were fairly well done, this is a dud.

[zealo]

Canonical time bubbles exist for an absolutely staggering amount of content in this game when engaged with at a later level than it was intended for.

It’s just pointless nitpicking getting upset over a specific questline feeling out of place when engaged with at a later point than where the MSQ was at when you first gained access to it.

[Maljinwo]

True, but in the melee DPS and tank rolequests, you have people turning into Blashemies during the events of the quest. I haven't done the others yet, so IDK.

I don't think it's impossible to have people turning into blasphemies.
Isn't dynamis just another energy floating around? Without Zodiark to make the "shield" against dynamis, people could theoretically keep transforming into blasphemies even if the song of oblivion has stopped


Also, these are just sidequests and it would suck if you were locked out of them because you had already beaten the MSQ.
Yes I know. Lore and shit
But game mechanics will always trump storyline.
Hell, we get hunting objectives in Elpis which is ludicrous

[Tojara]

I don't think it makes sense to have people transform into blasphemies with the main threat gone though. The whole reason people were transforming was the song of oblivion, and Zodiark stopped it by effectively serving as a shield for the planet (think ozone layer preventing massive amount of radiation from entering). Last boss being dead means there's no source for the song, so blasphemies randomly appearing shouldn't happen.

Honestly though it's just a gameplay thing. The game shows you the role quests what, like 2/3 into the MSQ? You can choose to do it before or after, and while from a story perspective it makes sense to do it prior to ending the MSQ, you certainly have the option to do it after. Even though FF14 generally caters towards the story, I think this time they just wanted to give you the option to do the role quests whenever instead of forcing you and it's up to you to decide how you want to approach them. As you said as well, hunting objectives and other things take place in Elpis, which is weird, considering.

The role quests are kind of bad (at least the ones I did). However, a lot of the story quests for a lot of jobs are pretty 'meh' as well.

[Lane]

Varis' backstory is quite tragic. It's a shame he didn't get the development he deserved. I think aside from a looming, "evil" military threat that the writers never had any particular direction they wanted to take the Garleans. The only reason they likely received attention in EW is to sweep them under the rug as something we don't have to worry about anymore along with tempering.

I suspect the same would be true of the Ascians had Ishikawa not done a masterful job fleshing them out in ShB. Having said that, I still feel like EW would've been more enjoyable had ShB not existed. The only difference would be that Elpis wouldn't have been as meaningful without prior interactions with those characters.

and nobody has touched on this yet, but Hermes is MASSIVELY overpowered.

I want to copy and paste that whole paragraph everywhere. Emet-Selch was supposed to be the most powerful sorcerer of eld with nigh infinite aether at his disposal, yet he couldn't break out of bindings (something he literally snapped the WoL out of in ShB), prevent being mind wiped, or escape along with everyone else? The whole end of Elpis required too much suspension of disbelief for me. It was obvious the storyline was hard crafted to produce a specific result that wasn't in any way logical.

Yeah the time travel likely could've been approached differently, but as you said, the characters are some of the best in the series (sorry for those of you who really want people to like the scion characters more) so it gets a pass.

I can only hope the writers/devs receive enough critical feedback about EW to realize the Scions need character development. I check the FFXIV Reddit every now and then and I've yet to see a single post about any of the Scions since early access began while I've seen numerous about Hythlodaeus, Emet, and Venat. Hell, I've seen more fan posts about Meteion than any of the Scions.

[Devilyaki]

Varis' backstory is quite tragic. It's a shame he didn't get the development he deserved. I think aside from a looming, "evil" military threat that the writers never had any particular direction they wanted to take the Garleans. The only reason they likely received attention in EW is to sweep them under the rug as something we don't have to worry about anymore along with tempering.

I suspect the same would be true of the Ascians had Ishikawa not done a masterful job fleshing them out in ShB. Having said that, I still feel like EW would've been more enjoyable had ShB not existed. The only difference would be that Elpis wouldn't have been as meaningful without prior interactions with those characters.



I want to copy and paste that whole paragraph everywhere. Emet-Selch was supposed to be the most powerful sorcerer of eld with nigh infinite aether at his disposal, yet he couldn't break out of bindings (something he literally snapped the WoL out of in ShB), prevent being mind wiped, or escape along with everyone else? The whole end of Elpis required too much suspension of disbelief for me. It was obvious the storyline was hard crafted to produce a specific result that wasn't in any way logical.



I can only hope the writers/devs receive enough critical feedback about EW to realize the Scions need character development. I check the FFXIV Reddit every now and then and I've yet to see a single post about any of the Scions since early access began while I've seen numerous about Hythlodaeus, Emet, and Venat. Hell, I've seen more fan posts about Meteion than any of the Scions.

Well they did say the whole place was “damping” their powers or whatever, but it was a bit odd

[Thestrawman]

I can only hope the writers/devs receive enough critical feedback about EW to realize the Scions need character development. I check the FFXIV Reddit every now and then and I've yet to see a single post about any of the Scions since early access began while I've seen numerous about Hythlodaeus, Emet, and Venat. Hell, I've seen more fan posts about Meteion than any of the Scions.

How much more character development do they need? All but Urianger's development was taken care of in Shadowbringers and Urianger's was finished in EW. They're fully fleshed out.

[KrayZ33]

I can only hope the writers/devs receive enough critical feedback about EW to realize the Scions need character development. I check the FFXIV Reddit every now and then and I've yet to see a single post about any of the Scions since early access began while I've seen numerous about Hythlodaeus, Emet, and Venat. Hell, I've seen more fan posts about Meteion than any of the Scions.

That is... a suprising notion.
The Scions need character development?

The Scion arc is over now and they have gotten proper development in every single expansions for 10 years straight.

Or are you talking about the minor sidekick characters in the group, like Hoary Boulder, that are quite unimportant to the whole story and got their little bravado whenever they first came up?