SPOILERS FOR THE ENTIRETY OF FFXIV
We used to discuss the story in the main thread since almost everybody was caught up, but lately we've had new people join who are going through the story for the first time. Moving stuff here.
SPOILERS FOR THE ENTIRETY OF FFXIV
We used to discuss the story in the main thread since almost everybody was caught up, but lately we've had new people join who are going through the story for the first time. Moving stuff here.
Val, val! Im probably totally off base here but (and its a super dumb question - shadowbringers early game spoilers):
I just met alphinaud, the source and the first are distinct, our objective is to prevent the 8th umbral calamity, i have this headcannon that the games are going to be tied together... i just do... can you tell me, without spoiling the actual game, just how many ff1 references exist in shadowbringers? I told you it was dumb. But if theres a fair few, im going with my headcannon. If its statistically irrelevant then im going to accept its a pure fiction.
Bonus question, also absurd, but Ysela used her echo crystal to become shiva. Ive got 6 of them. Everyone believes in me as an object of deliverance, what makes me distinct from her? Am i a primal as well? If its a spoiler (i cant imagine it is), then dont tell me. But if it isnt a spoiler, feel free to smack me upside my head.
Oh, and just so you have something you can answer without castigating me but want to be polite (i can read between the lines), how and when do i get the trust system?
Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-11 at 10:42 AM.
There is only one obvious FF1 reference I can think of in ShB off the top of my head. There are more references to 8.
The 6 crystals were sorta forgotten after HW 3.0. They never come up again.Bonus question, also absurd, but Ysela used her echo crystal to become shiva. Ive got 6 of them. Everyone believes in me as an object of deliverance, what makes me distinct from her? Am i a primal as well? If its a spoiler (i cant imagine it is), then dont tell me. But if it isnt a spoiler, feel free to smack me upside my head.
The only difference between the WoL and Yslaye is that the WoL has the Blessing of Light given to them by Hydaelyn, which is a vague power that's not really well defined.
You unlock the trust dungeon when you arrive at the first ShB dungeon.
Val, i have another stupid question. Im watching sloot's vod and he's at a certain point (lets just call it 3.5 so you dont click on it if you havent beaten 3.5 (this also includes all post heavensward content because the spoiler reveals something about a certain group of people, it especially includes shadowbringers)).
"Full long did i search for a means to save [the first]... and thus did i [pit] the light against the dark". So... now that ive established he is doing exactly that right now in my game, the urianger in this cutscene is in fact from our far future (as its happening)? "The instrument of the firsts deliverance would be required to journey thither... there to remain mayhap forever. One life for one world..." Oh dear god, the sheer number of spoilers. There's three candidates as i see it (i dont need to be spoiled on this, i just want validation: me, her, and the true wol (ardbert - the coolest old man name ever given to a hero in video game history))... 'and you the coin'. Now theres one? (sorry, im reacting in real time - i was fired up by that opening phrase by minfilia, she then confirmed she's the coin). Thancred (of shadowbringers) wouldnt have said what he said in that cutscene (as i understand it thus far). So he's clearly of this time. Thancred in shadowbringers right now is a prick.
Okay, so the wod's are of a pocket timeless universe. Ardbert has been chilling for 100 years on his own. So all us scions are right now. Ardbert and his crew are 100 years in the past bumping around in pocket dimensions with the help of the ascians (before the actual flood, whilst ardbert ends up a ghost in the period after the flood), whilst minfilia is a terrified teenager who stopped the flood 100 years prior, but looks like a teen and urianger is actually from a point when this was all resolved (5.58). And minfilia has to die because shes the coin that was spent and literally confirmed it. Or did she, because perhaps she was spent just stopping the wave of light? But she's dead right? Because i feel overprotective about her given how much of an asshole thancred is currently being.
Thats what im getting. Am i right? Feel free to just write 'ipps, it will all resolve itself if you'd just play the effing game and not try and spoil yourself by trying to predict whats going on.'
Ps. You can also say "go watch this cutscene in patch x.x for more hints (and decide for yourself).
Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-27 at 09:37 AM.
Pretty much this.
But if I can clarify something. Urianger in 3.4 - when he sets up the Minfillia thing and asks her to go to the First with the Warriors of Darkness to help - is present Urianger. Keep in mind that he "worked" with Elidibus since the end of ARR. He was a double agent of sorts, and his ultimate plan was to infiltrate them, gain knowledge and find out how to save the First thus saving the Source aswell. This all was happening from the end of ARR until 3.4.
As for the rest... ipps, it will all resolve itself if you'd just play the effing game and not try and spoil yourself by trying to predict whats going on.
Even the reason why Thancred acts the way he does.
You shouldn't worry about that. The only thing you should know is what the Exarch says at the start about the Scions arriving years apart even though in the Source it was only days apart. And that on the First a 100 years have passed since we sent the Warriors of Darkness back.
As for now, the time difference between the First and the Source is actually pretty much the same. And that's really for obvious reasons. Even YoshiP said not to think about it that much.
Im gonna though. 5.0...Thancred is 5 years.. y'shtolla 3 years, the twins 1 year (all in the space of, lets say a month on the source). im gonna. Rich says "how convenient we're aligned", i say... how convenient we're aligned at this exact moment as i arrive...? but we're still moving right? At the exact same pace we were moving prior. Im genuinely amazed the crystal exarch says its unpredictable, and perhaps this is the 'out'. So if my arrival is equilibrium, every second i spend here is 10/100/1000/10000 seconds in the source, right? because we're moving forward. Assuming we hit reasonable equilibrium upon my arrival. And assuming time is flowing consistently, then every moment i exist in the first exponentially increases my coma in the source. Tataru is going to lose it.
ETA: Genuinely, thank you for not trying to spoil me, but trying to indicate where i should look even though im too dumb to do it.
Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-28 at 03:11 AM.
I'm going to be honest, I think you're ruining the enjoyment of ShB by overthinking it so much. It's making me glad when I watched the playthrough that I had no preconceptions. The story, IMO, is fairly straightforward and you're over-complicating it a lot before you've even gotten to key plot developments.
I know there's a substantial amount of filler to push through before every Lightwarden, but trust us when we say everything is fully explained. Some of it was touched upon already in Heavensward.
"We must now recognize that the greatest threat of freedom for us all is if we go back to eating ourselves out from within." - John Anderson
Dont worry dude, i didnt read beyond your first point. I LOVE overthinking shit. If its confirmed i feel smug. If it isnt i get to think 'oh wow I never saw that coming!' (ETA: 50% of my enjoyment comes from solving the puzzle).
INTP rabbit. I love being wrong as much as i love being right. (The other 50% comes from playing the game and realising i was wrong).
Last edited by ippollite; 2021-08-28 at 03:21 AM.
Yeah, the writing of ff14 is far better than WoW. They are pretty good at wrapping up every thread they start. Just keep trucking along and do every side quest and the whole picture is mostly revealed.
The time thing is an Exarch byproduct as he's basically using tech and Magick that is foreign to him.
Well I can't really answer any of this yet so at this point I'm gonna have to go back to your previous post and just say again "ipps, it will all resolve itself if you'd just play the effing game and not try and spoil yourself by trying to predict whats going on."
I could hint on some stuff, but I think it's best if you just find everything out by yourself. It's safe to say that most if not all of these questions will be answered.
The answer is "don't think about it too hard". No, really. FFXIV's story is better written than most, but it doesn't have Lord of the Rings levels of plotting.
The wonky time thing was never "resolved". It was a hand wave the writers hoped people wouldn't think about it. It is never brought up again.
The real answer is that when the Warrior of Darkness arc for the HW patches was being written, the FFXIV dev team didn't have any plans for Shadowbringers as it is now. They just left the door open for future 1st Shard material. After Stormblood released, Yoshi-P decided that the next expansion was going to be set on the First, and that the player would be adventuring with the Scions. This conflicted with what had been set up prior (Hydaelyn sending the Warriors of Darkness back to the First), because now the writers have to figure out how to have the player adventure with the Scions to save the First (because by this point FFXIV's writing was tending towards power fantasy, so having other heroes around would detract from that, and also the difficulty of trying to explain what the other heroes are doing), but not adventure with the WoDs as well (who would be interested in saving their own planet). So the writers came up with the 100 year timeskip so that the WoDs would be long dead by the time the player arrived, so now it's just the player and the Scions who are running around a post apocalyptic world where nobody can remember a life before the Flood.
The "Thancred spent 5 years on the First" contrivance was to justify the "Thancred is a father figure" subplot. The player travels to the First a few days/weeks after Thancred collapsed in 4.4, so it would be nonsensical for him to act as a father figure to a girl he had literally just met a few a days/weeks ago.
Just keep playing. There is more interesting story material coming up.
Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2021-08-27 at 03:21 PM.
And that's why it's only used to get us there. The rest of the plot doesn't revolve that. The time stuff is just an instrument to guide us to a good story which is Shadowbringers.
That's why YoshiP said to not think about it. And honestly I don't mind.
You're thinking too hard.
Time is consistent across the First and the Source right now. Just accept that. There's no crazy wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff going on right now.
Seriously, just play the game. Almost everything you're asking, questioning and stressing over is discussed and resolved. Enjoy the ride.ETA: Genuinely, thank you for not trying to spoil me, but trying to indicate where i should look even though im too dumb to do it.
No, he's not. He's the game director and he says time is aligned, period. Stop looking any deeper into it, you're getting stressed out, upset, bent out of shape or whatever you want to call it...over nothing.ETA2: YoshiP is wrong
[SNIP]
Seriously...stop. Just play the game, enjoy the ride.
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It was just resolved very quickly and succinctly. It's outright stated that times is weird between the shards, but as of right now while you're adventuring on the First that the passing of time is equivalent, or close enough.
I'm not saying you're wrong. But do you have a source for any of this, aside from the Shadowbringers story not being finalized until Stormblood?The real answer is that when the Warrior of Darkness arc for the HW patches was being written, the FFXIV dev team didn't have any plans for Shadowbringers as it is now. They just left the door open for future 1st Shard material. After Stormblood released, Yoshi-P decided that the next expansion was going to be set on the First, and that the player would be adventuring with the Scions. This conflicted with what had been set up prior (Hydaelyn sending the Warriors of Darkness back to the First), because now the writers have to figure out how to have the player adventure with the Scions to save the First (because by this point FFXIV's writing was tending towards power fantasy, so having other heroes around would detract from that, and also the difficulty of trying to explain what the other heroes are doing), but not adventure with the WoDs as well (who would be interested in saving their own planet). So the writers came up with the 100 year timeskip so that the WoDs would be long dead by the time the player arrived, so now it's just the player and the Scions who are running around a post apocalyptic world where nobody can remember a life before the Flood.
The "Thancred spent 5 years on the First" contrivance was to justify the "Thancred is a father figure" subplot. The player travels to the First a few days/weeks after Thancred collapsed in 4.4, so it would be nonsensical for him to act as a father figure to a girl he had literally just met a few a days/weeks ago.
As to Thancred being a father figure to Minfilia, that's a role he played and put himself into even to the Source Minfilia. He was the one who saved her when her father was killed by the Gobbue attack and he felt responsible for her ever since.
Agreed, 100%.Just keep playing. There is more interesting story material coming up.
From interviews (spoilers, naturally):
Spoiler:
- - - Updated - - -
Thancred's and Source Minfillia having a "father-figure" relationship was never really portrayed before ShB. You only see the Goobbue attack if you watch the 1.0 cutscenes on Youtube. In the FFXIV game you can actually play, the two hardly interact with each other, and when they do, they certainly don't act like they have a father-daughter relationship. Minfillia administrates the Scions as an organization and gives Thancred orders. He doesn't seem to pay more attention to Minfillia than anyone else. When we got the echo flashback of Thancred reaching out towards Source Minfillia (who was possessing Ryne), I thought he either saw her as a sister or had romantic feelings for her (that were never shown until now). Certainly not father figure.
Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2021-08-27 at 03:49 PM.
This only confirms that the story and MANY of the connections and subplots weren't finalized until after Stormblood launched.
In your post, the only part confirmed is the bolded:
--------The real answer is that when the Warrior of Darkness arc for the HW patches was being written, the FFXIV dev team didn't have any plans for Shadowbringers as it is now. They just left the door open for future 1st Shard material. After Stormblood released, Yoshi-P decided that the next expansion was going to be set on the First, and that the player would be adventuring with the Scions. This conflicted with what had been set up prior (Hydaelyn sending the Warriors of Darkness back to the First), because now the writers have to figure out how to have the player adventure with the Scions to save the First (because by this point FFXIV's writing was tending towards power fantasy, so having other heroes around would detract from that, and also the difficulty of trying to explain what the other heroes are doing), but not adventure with the WoDs as well (who would be interested in saving their own planet). So the writers came up with the 100 year timeskip so that the WoDs would be long dead by the time the player arrived, so now it's just the player and the Scions who are running around a post apocalyptic world where nobody can remember a life before the Flood.
The "Thancred spent 5 years on the First" contrivance was to justify the "Thancred is a father figure" subplot. The player travels to the First a few days/weeks after Thancred collapsed in 4.4, so it would be nonsensical for him to act as a father figure to a girl he had literally just met a few a days/weeks ago.
You're correct in that the father figure dynamic wasn't ever touched on until Shadowbringers, the story is still shown that Thancred felt that way since the Gobbue attack. The 5 years spent on the First obviously endeared the two of them to each other, but the root of the relationship existed prior to Thancred ever setting foot on the First, meaning the 5 year timeframe wasn't just a contrivance to justify that relationship/ dynamic.Thancred's and Source Minfillia having a "father-figure" relationship was never really portrayed before ShB. You only see the Goobbue attack if you watch the 1.0 cutscenes on Youtube. In the FFXIV game you can actually play, the two hardly interact with each other, and when they do, they certainly don't act like they have a father-daughter relationship. Minfillia administrates the Scions as an organization and gives Thancred orders. He doesn't seem to pay more attention to Minfillia than anyone else. When we got the echo flashback of Thancred reaching out towards Source Minfillia (who was possessing Ryne), I thought he either saw her as a sister or had romantic feelings for her (that were never shown until now). Certainly not father figure.