4th specs would be my choice if we could only have one. Several classes are locked into one archetype and can never branch out. This would give them a chance to choose another role without abandoning their class altogether (i.e. mages with a time based healer spec, priests with a light based dps. etc)
Not really, unless you're going for 'confirmation bias'.
Look at the Night Warrior, for example: it's a ritual that infuses unbridled power into the night elf's body and it becomes glowy and their eyes black. There's enough in there to justify a new 'race' with new racials, etc, but it ended up as just being a small cosmetic option for NE players: black eyes.
The lightforged draenei could also very easily just been cosmetic options for the normal draenei: tattoos, new skin colors, horns, etc. Yet they became a separate 'race'.
Where is the button: 'All'
Visually they are different too.
Read my original post on Echo Classes. It's all outlined there.And i still stand by it.
I'm asking why you suddenly don't go full-lazy?
Class Skins suffer from being bound to the performance of a class. Echo Skins have the flexibility of their own Spec allowing them to have their own gameplay and balance without being bound to the performance of a Core class. If Marksmanship sucks (as it currently falls below BM and Surv), then a Dark Ranger class skin has to go with Beastmastery or Survival to stay competitive; two specs which don't generally embody the Dark Ranger identity.
That problem is avoided with Echo Classes being buffered by the inclusion of a new Spec that can be tuned to meet the requirements of the class and of the game. If Marks and Sub are two really strong specs next expansion, then Domination can stay as a middle-performance spec that is easier to play but outputs weaker comparatively. Min-maxers have their top-performance options, while casual goers can play an easier spec akin to Havoc DH. Or if Sub and Marks happen to do completely shit, then they could design Domination to be a high-skill cap risk-reward spec that performs very well at the cost of complexity, like Feral Druids. It's flexible design that the Class Skin system doesn't have, but yes it would require effort to do. Simply not as much effort as adding 3 completely new specs.
Echo Classes are a happy medium.
Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-16 at 09:56 PM.
Not really. The Legion leveling experience "issue" is actually quite inconsequential.
The class order halls played no part whatsoever in the leveling experience other than allowing you to pick which artifact weapon to pursue, and which zone to go next. Hell, if you wanted, you could go through the Legion experience without ever setting foot in your order hall after unlocking it and getting your first artifact: just mount up and fly to the next zone, the quest would be there for you to pick up.
The first "issue" is negated by adding an NPC in Dalaran that grants the player a generic heirloom-like weapon that improves as they level, if they don't have one, already. The second "issue" is negated by adding a Heroes' Board at Krasus' Landing where we can pick up which zone to go next.
Legion leveling experience without Order Halls: easy.
Very well.
Maybe because it would be a new class?
We don't know the reason behind it, but if they decided to make it into a new race, then it probably deserves it.The lightforged draenei could also very easily just been cosmetic options for the normal draenei: tattoos, new skin colors, horns, etc. Yet they became a separate 'race'.
Recolor, mostly.
Because class skins don't do them justice? well, so would Echo classes. They're just class skins with a bit of seasoning.Read my original post on Echo Classes. It's all outlined there.
There are entire campaigns associated with them.
Last edited by username993720; 2021-09-16 at 09:51 PM.
Also in customization options, emotes and voices. Plenty more than just recolor.
I mean honestly speaking, it depends on how you choose to see a class.Because class skins don't do them justice? well, so would Echo classes. They're just class skins with a bit of seasoning.
I don't even think Priests do Priests justice half of the playable races would never use Void magic in lore, and a bunch of other options like Goblins and Gnomes don't even have formal religious orders to really call themselves Priests. Or look at how we're told each race uses the Light differently, but there's no difference between a Forsaken or a Troll or a Dark Iron channeling their spells.
What we regard as a class as is nothing more than a collection of gameplay mechanics grouped under a similar system. Does it matter that a Sunwalker doesn't actually cast Sun magic? No, it doesn't. But the Paladin gameplay still does it justice, by adapting all of their lore into tangible gameplay mechanics. And if that's what classes effectively are in WoW, then a class skin, or Echo classes, can do it justice by that same standard. And any incongruencies would exist alongside the ones that already exist in WoW classes.
Right now we have absolutely no way to play a Death-oriented spellcaster that summons undead. A class skin could absolutely do that justice.
Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-16 at 10:14 PM.
what??? you really believe Blizz would ever do this for SOME specs ? can you imagine the giant shitstorm of every class owner not getting a 4th spec ???
giving DH a third spec, i can imagine. giving a 4th to SOME classes, NO WAY. i mean, what should the marker or reason for give spec 4 to class x instead class y ?
NO. FUKIN. WAY.
Wouldn't oppose a new class if it fits the theme of the expansion they're included in, feels unique, and is fun to play. Lots of concepts thrown around over the years, but most don't fit the bill if you ask me.
And if one is created, please not another melee (specially not a leather wearing one).
Why would it be a new class? And if would be a new class, why did it become just a tiny cosmetic option for night elves only?
And yet you said this:We don't know the reason behind it, but if they decided to make it into a new race, then it probably deserves it.
Which implies we know the reasons behind it. What is it, then? Do we know, or do we not know, the reasons behind making certain concepts into separate races/classes and others into mere cosmetic options?
Which is not part of the leveling experience. Right now you can level through Legion, wielding an heirloom weapon, without ever setting foot in your class hall. Get to Legion, mount up, fly to Azsuna/Val'Sharah/Highmountain/Stormheim and start leveling.There are entire campaigns associated with them.
Elune is a Moon/Life God. Anshe is Sun/Light. The sun they worship uses the same Light that the humans worship, by a different name. The REAL issue is that Night Elf Priests wield yellow light instead of blue!
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I **badly** want unlockable race/class combinations. It wouldnt diminish the rarity of the combo, it wouldnt require an entire new Sunwalker-styled faction, and it could have like a small quest chain like the Night Elf Paladin in Legion got, but the reward is unlocking the combination on your account. Undead paladins exist in lore, but they are rare. They don't deserve a subfaction within the Forsaken army, but I would fucking *love* to be able to do a questline where we raise a paladin into undeath and then get to play as them.
Aside from that, skins would be a lot better in my opinion. Bonus points if the Horde gets an exclusive elemental skin and Alliance gets a light-themed skin to call back to when Shaman and Paladin were faction specific. Inquisitor for an Alliance shaman skin, and Seer for a Horde Paladin skin.
Also, on the topic of race/class customizations: I've always thought it would be fucking awesome if they brought back Weapon Expertise or whatever for each race.... But as a transmog option. So like all humans, regardless of class, can wield swords. Orcs get axes, night elves get warglaives, etc.
Maybe even an option for alternate armor types? Like a talent or something so its on a per-spec basis? Holy paladins could wear mail, mistweavers could wear cloth, etc
Last edited by Amnaught; 2021-09-16 at 11:08 PM.
It's a multiple choice poll .
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The only way would be to guarantee to have all 12 out by the end of the expansion they are released in. Of course, I would have my doubts about the guarantee since we still have missing heritage armors and forsaken and worgen never got a shared-model AR.
It is a straight up rip of something called "prestige classes" in DND, not that I think it is a bad idea.
IIRC when cataclysm was looming this was one of the ideas people thought path of the titans would indulge - sort of a class within a class. I *think* this is how we ended up with the legendary weapons in Legion, those evolved from that idea.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
I did not expect this to be so even.
Interesting.
I'd rather have new class or 4th specs, but since they can't really even balance things well now...class skins would probably be the best
maybe i missunderstood you. i dont fully get what you wanna say with this post.
but if your suggestion really was „4th spec as a new xpacs feature, but just for some specific classes“ its completely dellusional imo. they will never ever do this. regardless how old your playerbase is. even thinking about such a „feature“ is imo absurdly far from being realistic in any form.
why the hell they ever will do this??? they will never add 4th specs at all (reasons see my and others posts above). but IF they would do this, they for 100000% sure will never never ever do it, just for „some“ specs/classes. thats absurd.
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class skins is at least the most realistic one. since they did something similar (with similar effort) in BfA (allied races).
4th specs for every class is completely unrealistic (heck they have zero ideas already) and imo completely off the table. new class is, as always, possible. but since they had not much ideas and investment left for DH, i assume they try to ignore this. but since xpacs with new classes always were succesful and Blizz is a rather conservative company, sticking to their formula, i can totally imagine a new 2specs class (1 range dps 1 heal spec or so).
but imo class skins would have the most benefit as a feature, could be coupled/linked with their „systems“ and grind stuff and seems to be the most mid cost effective for Blizz. its maybe the highest gain (marketing wise, feature-list wise and investment wise) for a mid class investment. could work as effective feature for next xpac. around the same deal, allied races was.
Last edited by Niwes; 2021-09-17 at 04:55 AM.