The case for high end gear from WQ and Torghast

[Deadite]

I can pay 150k once a week for a guaranteed piece of 252 loot from M+
but getting a 252 piece of loot from World Quests or Torghast takes less skill and thus, is not deserving of the same reward?

People on this site weep buckets if someone gets the worst loot in the game from LFR. They would riot if you got good gear from a WQ or Torgash.

[enigma77]

I'll say it. I miss Titanforging.

Yep.

Legion had it figured out. Big mistake to remove it.

[Log Cabin]

I normally would disagree with you...hell a part of me still does want to but you bring up a valid point. I want to say this is unreasonable, that what we are seeing now is transitional and in time we will return to how wow was pre legion in terms of progression but really isn't that just coping at this point?

I can't really think of a valid reason to deny you and that saddens me.

[Tyris Flare]

I don't really have much empathy for people who act entitled. .

That's fine, but players want it, and some will quit if they don't get it. What is "right" doesn't really matter. 2021 is not 2004

[ohwell]

+1 me to buddy me too - and 90 % of players who left game .

So 100 people?

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I'm a mythic raider & I don't want to do WQs for boring flat % borrowed power spikes, but understand that casual players need some sort of meaningful progression to keep them invested as well. I'd much rather give them gear over time than to have a system of borrowed power where I'm stuck doing the same chores as they are Caring about what gear other people have is mad - just enjoy what you have, & let other people enjoy what they can get.

Not really. Also these aren't "casual" players you're speaking of. These are players who typically log more hours than some mythic raiders and they can't or willfully won't engage in more content. The game isn't paid for by these people anymore and they can't and shouldn't be catered to. And to throw your own point of "caring what gear others have" right back at you, that's what starts threads like these is that these people care about what gear they can't achieve. So maybe the badsuals should take your advice and stop caring what gear mythic players have. The people who log 2 hours a week aren't the ones making these demands. It's the ones logging 40 hours in game a week.

Edit: Also casuals have access to a full set of gear just below heroic sanctum. That's more than enough. Oh wait and a heroic piece every few weeks

[Toybox]

Not really. Also these aren't "casual" players you're speaking of. These are players who typically log more hours than some mythic raiders and they can't or willfully won't engage in more content. The game isn't paid for by these people anymore and they can't and shouldn't be catered to. And to throw your own point of "caring what gear others have" right back at you, that's what starts threads like these is that these people care about what gear they can't achieve. So maybe the badsuals should take your advice and stop caring what gear mythic players have. The people who log 2 hours a week aren't the ones making these demands. It's the ones logging 40 hours in game a week.

To be fair, I do agree with you when it comes to what makes a casual, but I find it easier to just use the generally accepted term (someone who doesn't do higher-tier instanced content, even if they play more hours than many of those who do). I've also said in the past that I don't see why they need upgrades to do content doable in quest greens.

They do seemingly need some sort of carrot on a stick to keep them interested though, & all I want is a system where their carrot on a stick isn't my barrier to entry for instanced group content. I feel like it's very possible to have a game where raiders/PvP/M+ players don't have to do mundane single player content for power gains, and also a game where casual players can work towards gear over time - The old badge system was simply the first thing that came to mind.

[Utrrabbit]

I can pay 150k once a week for a guaranteed piece of 252 loot from M+
but getting a 252 piece of loot from World Quests or Torghast takes less skill and thus, is not deserving of the same reward?

The fact that you are paying for any gear basically invalidates every opinion you have about anything.

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Many people play RPGS to become powerful, even if the content doesn't require it. As Ghostcrawler said, wow is a game about upgrading your stuff. This is true if you are a super casual hobbyist or a lifestyle try-hard

The whole "you don't need upgrades for the content you are doing" is a canard that has never made any sense. Totally (and often intentionally) misunderstands player psychology.

That those players can get fucking good and kill mythic bosses. Without crying like entitled fucks.

[Dreyen]

Majority of people are playing this game without p2w and buying runs.

max ilevel from world quest is stupid. I did like getting high level gear from high difficulty solo content like 5 mask visions in BFA. It's once a week and you need to run the place consistently to even start being able to do 5 mask runs... And it's not mythic raid gear level still, but its good enough for a casual. I'm kinda sad torghast doesn't have gear rewards like this actually.

[saixilein]

The whole WQ system would have to change for that.
I think crafting should be looked at first when it comes to alternative BiS gear that is not from raids/m+

You could build WQs into that, but directly looting BiS/max ilvl gear from WQs sounds horrible.

I agree. I dont meant that you get bis gear from a boring wqs, more that what you wrote. Bringing professions back to craft something, farming mats, or do medicore quest, that are challenging, but not impossible for casuals.

I dont know its my mindset or back then it worked in other ways, but in wotlk/cata/mop i never had the feeling i have to get bis gear to do most of the challengeing content, or pushing my itemlevel by 20 doubles my performance etc. The items felt like an uograde, but mostly never like "without it you are useless akd nobody wants to play with you"

I mean back in cata/mop there where 2k+ players in pvp with trash gear, but they played well and gear wasnt all you need in arenas.

[Caerrona]

I can pay 150k once a week for a guaranteed piece of 252 loot from M+
but getting a 252 piece of loot from World Quests or Torghast takes less skill and thus, is not deserving of the same reward?

Correct you shouldn't... gun to my head (I don't want either) but I'd take someone boosted over a person who does wq as "content".

[Log Cabin]

Correct you shouldn't... gun to my head (I don't want either) but I'd take someone boosted over a person who does wq as "content".

I would lean the other way but it startling that when you break it down you come to realize this is the situation we are actually in...

[darklogrus]

Correct you shouldn't... gun to my head (I don't want either) but I'd take someone boosted over a person who does wq as "content".

So someone who wants to earn their gear and have a gear patch that involves the outside world is "entitled" and "wants everything handed to them" But someone who buys a boost for their gear is "totally ok."

[Elbob]

To be fair, I do agree with you when it comes to what makes a casual, but I find it easier to just use the generally accepted term (someone who doesn't do higher-tier instanced content, even if they play more hours than many of those who do). I've also said in the past that I don't see why they need upgrades to do content doable in quest greens.

They do seemingly need some sort of carrot on a stick to keep them interested though, & all I want is a system where their carrot on a stick isn't my barrier to entry for instanced group content. I feel like it's very possible to have a game where raiders/PvP/M+ players don't have to do mundane single player content for power gains, and also a game where casual players can work towards gear over time - The old badge system was simply the first thing that came to mind.

*looks at you*
*looks to great vault*
*Looks back to you*

I think the casual gear over time system is already implemented... even running lower mythics like +5-10's results in strong rewards every week. This is certainly content runnable by the entire playerbase unless they flat refuse to do group content, but at that point its on them. Blizzard gives players easy access to upgrades and if they don't take it, its not blizzards job to find another way to grant them the same rewards.
Korthia also represents the gear over time for casuals, slowly working on the rep over the weeks it took to reach renown 80 results in being able to now upgrade missing slots to 233 which is between normal and heroic raiding. How do these 2 systems not cover casual gearing over time?

[AcidicSyn]

*looks at you*
*looks to great vault*
*Looks back to you*

I think the casual gear over time system is already implemented... even running lower mythics like +5-10's results in strong rewards every week. This is certainly content runnable by the entire playerbase unless they flat refuse to do group content, but at that point its on them. Blizzard gives players easy access to upgrades and if they don't take it, its not blizzards job to find another way to grant them the same rewards.
Korthia also represents the gear over time for casuals, slowly working on the rep over the weeks it took to reach renown 80 results in being able to now upgrade missing slots to 233 which is between normal and heroic raiding. How do these 2 systems not cover casual gearing over time?

Best I can think of is when he said "Casual players", he meant casual solo players, IE: people who only do queueable group content.

[Daedius]

Following that logic - why does Mythic drop the best gear? It's not like you'll need stronger gear for anything after that.

Gear should serve as an entry level to harder content. WQ should be the equivalent of LFR Raid. Mythic gear drops gear to do later bosses in said mythic raid, and carries forth for the next raid content. There's zero reason why piss easy WQ content should drop mythic quality.

[NineSpine]

The game should absolutely allow everyone to achieve BiS gear with almost any endgame content.

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Gear should serve as an entry level to harder content. WQ should be the equivalent of LFR Raid. Mythic gear drops gear to do later bosses in said mythic raid, and carries forth for the next raid content. There's zero reason why piss easy WQ content should drop mythic quality.

The reason is simple: It makes those players have more fun and doesn’t make the game less fun for anyone else whatsoever.

[Darkeon]

Gear should serve as an entry level to harder content. WQ should be the equivalent of LFR Raid. Mythic gear drops gear to do later bosses in said mythic raid, and carries forth for the next raid content. There's zero reason why piss easy WQ content should drop mythic quality.

And receiving gear from this type of trivial content would carry forth for the next slighty-more-challenging type of trivial content. Seems like it aligns with your reasoning just fine.

[Daedius]

The game should absolutely allow everyone to achieve BiS gear with almost any endgame content.

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The reason is simple: It makes those players have more fun and doesn’t make the game less fun for anyone else whatsoever.

Having the best gear from the get go in easy content would make people less likely to hang around if there's no incentive to gear up through harder content...

[Gourbaak]

Why do you need 252 gear if you are not even capable if doing a single 15 per week ?

[Djuntas]

The problem is casual players dont have more fun/engaging content than Ilvl to chase. I stopped serious mythic raiding back in Cata - Since then I have had not cared about gear, besides a way to boost my grinding / soloing. I will never go out of my way a lot to get gear anymore.