The gods are 3d printed? (9.2)

[huth]

Of course that is still the case. That is the entire deal of the Titans but they were implied to be the "ones that created most things in the universe" through that "hundred million worlds" of shaping and creation. The First ones have essentially been copied from that and put at a cosmic level rather then a universe one. That is what people have been trying to say that you seem to not want to see.

Different forms of architecture doesn't matter here. We are not talking about every single last detail. It is hilarious that you say the point is to reflect Titans stuff in the First ones yet still argue against the First Ones being essentially a copy of Titans. Lol.

Hundred million worlds isn't exactly a whole lot when considering a whole universe. Might not even be a complete galaxy. Besides, the text outright states the worlds were already there.

[rhorle]

Hundred million worlds isn't exactly a whole lot when considering a whole universe. Might not even be a complete galaxy. Besides, the text outright states the worlds were already there.

Right. The scale isn't that big and they terraformed the worlds. Adding atmosphere, seas, mountains, machines, living beings, etc. is still creating stuff. It is about the similarities between the First Ones and the Titans. Instead of trying to make it different they decided to base the First Ones on an inspiration of the Titans but on a cosmic scale. Which is fine because like I said it makes sense that the Titans might order the same way they saw things ordered themselves.

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The Chronicle KINDA re-words it a bit, but they essentially go to a chaotic world, deal with the "issue" there, reshape it, and then bam, the world's all "healthy", balanced, ordered. That's...always been the case.

Who here has said that has not been the case? I'm curious to what you are actually arguing against because you don't seem to understand what is being said to you. No one is saying the Titans have had their lore drastically changed. Only that their importance and implication has dwindled over the years to "middle management". Which is fine because we have interacted with them so much it is hard to have a supreme force just sitting there. It also allows them to introduce other cosmic forces and even the potential that Azeroth is not a Titan but something else (like a first one) that keeps drawing the cosmic forces to the planet.

It is only being said that the First Ones are similar to the Titans. Which is hard for anyone writer to avoid given how the Titan lore started in the franchise and how little the other cosmic forces were expanded.

[TheFirstOnes]

Right. The scale isn't that big and they terraformed the worlds. Adding atmosphere, seas, mountains, machines, living beings, etc. is still creating stuff. It is about the similarities between the First Ones and the Titans. Instead of trying to make it different they decided to base the First Ones on an inspiration of the Titans but on a cosmic scale. Which is fine because like I said it makes sense that the Titans might order the same way they saw things ordered themselves.

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Who here has said that has not been the case? I'm curious to what you are actually arguing against because you don't seem to understand what is being said to you. No one is saying the Titans have had their lore drastically changed. Only that their importance and implication has dwindled over the years to "middle management". Which is fine because we have interacted with them so much it is hard to have a supreme force just sitting there. It also allows them to introduce other cosmic forces and even the potential that Azeroth is not a Titan but something else (like a first one) that keeps drawing the cosmic forces to the planet.

It is only being said that the First Ones are similar to the Titans. Which is hard for anyone writer to avoid given how the Titan lore started in the franchise and how little the other cosmic forces were expanded.

I do understand, very well actually. Quit moving goalposts, and quit strawmanning while doing such.

[rhorle]

I do understand, very well actually. Quit moving goalposts, and quit strawmanning while doing such.

You keep trying to argue things that were never said. No one is moving goal posts here but yourself.

[ohwell]

"Though the exact origins of the chaotic universe remain unclear, it is clear that a race of powerful beings arose to bring order to the various worlds and ensure a safe future for the beings that would follow in their footsteps."

" brought order to a hundred million worlds scattered throughout the Great Dark Beyond during the first ages of creation"

"The Titans, ruled by an elite sect known as the Pantheon, brought order to a hundred million worlds "

It seems pretty clear that the Titans set out to "create stuff" in the universe. Terraforming planets, creating life, machines to do so, "advanced servants" etc. It is dishonest to keep arguing that the First Ones, as we know them, are not just a copy of what the Titans originally were referenced as. They just changed the scope of what was done.

It isn't out of the question for beings of order to emulate their creators though so it isn't that strange the First Ones are essentially "Titans before Titans.

Definitely not the same. He/she is 100% correct. The First Ones are the gods while the Titans were essentially colonizers. HUGE difference.

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You know I feel vindicated on one thing by these recent developments.

I've been saying since the start that the Janitor has the character depth of a literal robot/toaster

Then you haven't been playing the game or watching anything at all or reading anything. Then again, you said janitor so that's all the confirmation I need to the previous statement.

[rhorle]

Definitely not the same. He/she is 100% correct. The First Ones are the gods while the Titans were essentially colonizers. HUGE difference.

No one is saying they are on the same level or equals. What they are saying is the concept/ideas for the First ones were inspired by the Titans given the previous lore and function of the Titans. They are not 100% correct because they literally said the Titans never created anything lol.

[TheFirstOnes]

No one is saying they are on the same level or equals. What they are saying is the concept/ideas for the First ones were inspired by the Titans given the previous lore and function of the Titans. They are not 100% correct because they literally said the Titans never created anything lol.

They really didn’t. Outside of their own shit, the Titans never created worlds or anything like that.

[rhorle]

They really didn’t. Outside of their own shit, the Titans never created worlds or anything like that.

No one said they created worlds, cosmic realms, or what not. You are moving the goal posts. It was just said that they created things. Because we are talking about the concepts and ideas behind the two and how similar they are. I already told you once the details are not important because no one is claiming they are 100% the same. Your own "proof" of lore your linked to and told someone to read literally has them creating things.

Yet you still try to fight it by adding in arbitrary restrictions on what creating actually means. Weird right? Just accept that Blizzard took inspiration for the First Ones from the Titans. It isn't a bad thing. It doesn't change anything about the two. It is silly to keep fighting it and denying it.

[Feanoro]

You know I feel vindicated on one thing by these recent developments.

I've been saying since the start that the Janitor has the character depth of a literal robot/toaster

It's almost astounding how little self awareness Danuser has, and how little ability he has to remember what he's previously written.

[TheFirstOnes]

No one said they created worlds, cosmic realms, or what not. You are moving the goal posts. It was just said that they created things. Because we are talking about the concepts and ideas behind the two and how similar they are. I already told you once the details are not important because no one is claiming they are 100% the same. Your own "proof" of lore your linked to and told someone to read literally has them creating things.

Yet you still try to fight it by adding in arbitrary restrictions on what creating actually means. Weird right? Just accept that Blizzard took inspiration for the First Ones from the Titans. It isn't a bad thing. It doesn't change anything about the two. It is silly to keep fighting it and denying it.

Quit strawmanning. It's actually stupid. Yes, they CREATED things...SO??? That wasn't the fucking point. My POINT was that you were somehow comparing the First Ones' narrative to the Titan's, when I debunked that ideal 900 times already. Can you not switch your arguments around and act like you know what you're talking about? It's annoying. It's like arguing with some certain youtubers that think themselves right and everyone else wrong, even tho they themselves switch their own arguments around when someone RIGHTFULLY critiques them. Just admit you're when you're wrong. I've done it plenty of times myself. We all make mistakes.

"Yet you still try to fight it by adding in arbitrary restrictions on what creating actually means."

What am I adding in? I already TOLD you what Creation means. The Titans never "created" anything outside of their own shit, which I CLEARLY stated in the quote you're utilizing. They ORDERED shit, yes. And they SHAPED Worlds using already existing magics and whatnot. But they never "CREATED" the Planets, or anything. The First Ones CREATED the Forces, their CREATIONS created the Realms, the Pantheons, etc, which in extension means they themselves created them as their relics and forces through their influence made all that we see. Whatever the Titans do AFTERWARDS is them shaping Reality and reshaping chaotic worlds and whatnot to an ordered and stable nature. They themselves CREATED Forces, and beings that could SHAPE the World with skies, water, etc. But that is not inherently THEIRS. It is the First Ones. The Titans are simply keeping Reality and the Cosmos in balance by governing Reality as the Lords of Order!

"Just accept that Blizzard took inspiration for the First Ones from the Titans. It isn't a bad thing." Considering the First Ones are supposed to be the progenitors of EVERY FORCE IN THE COSMOS AS A WHOLE...

I'm not sure what you're argument is here. Yes, there is SOME inspiration, but you are pushing that narrative way too fucking much rn.

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No one is saying they are on the same level or equals. What they are saying is the concept/ideas for the First ones were inspired by the Titans given the previous lore and function of the Titans. They are not 100% correct because they literally said the Titans never created anything lol.

"What they are saying is the concept/ideas for the First ones were inspired by the Titans"

...Who's "they"? YOU said that!

[Feanoro]

"What they are saying is the concept/ideas for the First ones were inspired by the Titans"

...Who's "they"? YOU said that!

"They" are the multiple people who have said the First Ones were inspired by the Titans, clearly discussing the story from a real world perspective, only for you to scream that they're not the same in game. At this point, it can only be deliberate obtuseness.

[TheFirstOnes]

"They" are the multiple people who have said the First Ones were inspired by the Titans, clearly discussing the story from a real world perspective, only for you to scream that they're not the same in game. At this point, it can only be deliberate obtuseness.

So, not only did you ignore most of my argument, but I'm like 100% sure that "they" in this instance is talking about me, as the "not 100% correct" part also uses "they" in it. If not, it's still a weird argument, as the First Ones being inspired by the Titans from a real world perspective is quite possible the dumbest thing I've ever heard regardless, as the First Ones literally do so much more than simply "OrDeR" and "ShaPE" shit. THEY FUCKING CREATED THE CONCEPT!

You can say they have things that are similar to the Titans, cause that's the fucking point. They are the guys that made the Titans, that made Order, that made reality, etc.

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I like how you all look at 1 aspect of the First Ones, and assume that's their whole fucking purpose for existing. It's actually stupid.

[darkoms]

Are you sure you want to argue with a person with the nickname First Ones? I mean, it's like proving a man with the nickname ArthasGoDOfDeath that Arthas is not a god of death.

[Feanoro]

@TheFirstOnes

Read carefully.

We are speaking from the Doyle perspective about a work of fiction. You keep trying to drag the discussion into Watson territory so you can "prove" the First Ones created the Titans. Guess what, NO ONE IS ARGUING THEY DIDN'T.

The argument being put forth is that the fictional characters called The First Ones have themes and concepts which are very similar to the themes and concepts of the fictional characters called Titans. The real world writers who created The First Ones appear to be inspired by the writing of the Titans.

That's all anyone is saying. I cannot state it more clearly than this, so if you come back raging yet again defending against something absolutely no one has said, don't expect me to try again.

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Are you sure you want to argue with a person with the nickname First Ones? I mean, it's like proving a man with the nickname ArthasGoDOfDeath that Arthas is not a god of death.

I've attempted one last time to help separate reality from fantasy. If it fails, I'll just move on.

[Soeroah]

Probably the only one but I prefer this to the idea that they are actual, literal gods but they need a mortal from some planet in another realm to do anything (and were so easily defeated by one on remote pilot by another god).

The First Ones having created the entire cosmology is something I can get behind *as long as* we never see a First One, hear a First One or learn what they are or look like. The furthest I'd want to go is what in-universe people think they look like. They can't do a Titans twice.

[rhorle]

Quit strawmanning. It's actually stupid. Yes, they CREATED things...SO???

The so is that you stated the Titans didn't create anything as a counter. You were wrong and didn't counter anything about the concept of the First Ones being similar to the Titans. We know this is the case because you keep focusing on buzzwords like strawman, moving goal posts, and whatever other insults you can think of rather then discussing the actual points raised in previous posts.

No one ever said they created the planets. You keep misunderstanding the comparison being discussed. It isn't about the details of who created what. It is about X entity creating Y things. With the Titans doing the same thing but on a smaller scale. They copied the general narrative of the two and changed the some of the details.

I'm not sure what you're argument is here. Yes, there is SOME inspiration, but you are pushing that narrative way too fucking much rn.

Lmao. You've been arguing this whole time with out even understanding what people are saying to you? You admitting that there is some inspiration is the entire thing people have been telling you but you've been arguing against. Wow.

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...Who's "they"? YOU said that!

The 3 or 4 different people who have said that to you. Do you not read the posts in this thread?

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I like how you all look at 1 aspect of the First Ones, and assume that's their whole fucking purpose for existing. It's actually stupid.

No one has said it is their whole purpose for existing. You are the only one saying that. You've literally agreed to what we have said by saying the first ones have parts inspired by the Titans. You've admitted we were right yet you still keep trying to move the goal posts to insult and discredit what we have said.

[TheFirstOnes]

@TheFirstOnes

Read carefully.

We are speaking from the Doyle perspective about a work of fiction. You keep trying to drag the discussion into Watson territory so you can "prove" the First Ones created the Titans. Guess what, NO ONE IS ARGUING THEY DIDN'T.

The argument being put forth is that the fictional characters called The First Ones have themes and concepts which are very similar to the themes and concepts of the fictional characters called Titans. The real world writers who created The First Ones appear to be inspired by the writing of the Titans.

That's all anyone is saying. I cannot state it more clearly than this, so if you come back raging yet again defending against something absolutely no one has said, don't expect me to try again.

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I've attempted one last time to help separate reality from fantasy. If it fails, I'll just move on.

And you'd still be wrong regardless?

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The so is that you stated the Titans didn't create anything as a counter. You were wrong and didn't counter anything about the concept of the First Ones being similar to the Titans. We know this is the case because you keep focusing on buzzwords like strawman, moving goal posts, and whatever other insults you can think of rather then discussing the actual points raised in previous posts.

No one ever said they created the planets. You keep misunderstanding the comparison being discussed. It isn't about the details of who created what. It is about X entity creating Y things. With the Titans doing the same thing but on a smaller scale. They copied the general narrative of the two and changed the some of the details.



Lmao. You've been arguing this whole time with out even understanding what people are saying to you? You admitting that there is some inspiration is the entire thing people have been telling you but you've been arguing against. Wow.

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The 3 or 4 different people who have said that to you. Do you not read the posts in this thread?

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No one has said it is their whole purpose for existing. You are the only one saying that. You've literally agreed to what we have said by saying the first ones have parts inspired by the Titans. You've admitted we were right yet you still keep trying to move the goal posts to insult and discredit what we have said.

I countered literally everything you and the others implied. Come on now...

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Are you sure you want to argue with a person with the nickname First Ones? I mean, it's like proving a man with the nickname ArthasGoDOfDeath that Arthas is not a god of death.

Aren't you the same guy that thought the Eternal Ones were Keeper Level based off 1 easily countered interview? Glad to be seeing you again, making fun of people's names. :/

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Probably the only one but I prefer this to the idea that they are actual, literal gods but they need a mortal from some planet in another realm to do anything (and were so easily defeated by one on remote pilot by another god).

The First Ones having created the entire cosmology is something I can get behind *as long as* we never see a First One, hear a First One or learn what they are or look like. The furthest I'd want to go is what in-universe people think they look like. They can't do a Titans twice.

I seriously wish we don't see them, either. I'm fine with meeting the Titans, but holy fuck did the game make them feel weak as fuck.

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Also, weird how people argue IRL shit, when their own fucking argument a second ago involved the WC3 Manual and Classic WoW sources. And guess what...from BOTH an IRL and in game perspective...

LITERALLY FUCKING NONE OF THEM HELP YOUR ARGUMENTS!!!

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I don't want to HEEEEAAAARRRR it!!!! This may sound egotistical, but if all 3-4 of your guys are gonna have this much trouble arguing with me whilist tryna keep your own points fucking consistent, then MAYBE it's time you all realized that...possibly, JUST POSSIBLY mind you...that you're out of your league.

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"No one has said it is their whole purpose for existing. You are the only one saying that. You've literally agreed to what we have said by saying the first ones have parts inspired by the Titans. You've admitted we were right yet you still keep trying to move the goal posts to insult and discredit what we have said."

Don't act like we're agreeing here. I have clearly mentioned that the Titans and the First Ones share SOME similarities, but that's not at all what you and the others are arguing about. So, please don't get confused. We're not on the same side here.

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We can agree on SOME things, cause...we fuckin are in a way, but don't get it twisted. The Titans were ALWAYS made to be Order beings that existed beyond the Cosmos' existence, made to bring balance, life, and ORDER to already existing chaotic worlds, and to keep it stabilized, with the First Ones being their precursors, and the guys who literally made it all from scratch. Is it that hard? The Titans take SOME aspects of the First Ones' will, while everyone else takes other aspects of their will, their influence, if you will!

That was ALWAYS my argument since we started this. Yet you guys act as if the First Ones are some DIRECT irl reference or some shit...

Like...

[rhorle]

I countered literally everything you and the others implied. Come on now...

Agreeing that parts of the First Ones are inspired by the Titans is not a counter and is in fact agreeing with what I and others have said. Everything else is moving goal posts to try and save face by "being right" even when you've already agreed you were wrong.

[darkoms]

Aren't you the same guy that thought the Eternal Ones were Keeper Level based off 1 easily countered interview? Glad to be seeing you again, making fun of people's names. :/

Aren't you the guy who said the players are stronger than the Titans because we defeated Denatrius in the raid? Glad to see you. It is a pity that you still do not understand that in that interview in which Ion say the Eternal Ones are equal to the titans he talks about the battle of players with Argu the titan (who was not a full-fledged titan), and Steve Danuser compares them in terms of the fact that they are both Pantheons. As I said 100 times, the Eternals Ones could BEFORE be on the Titan level, but during the SL they are Keeper level at best. Possibly due to drought.

[Feanoro]

This may sound egotistical, but if all 3-4 of your guys are gonna have this much trouble arguing with me whilist tryna keep your own points fucking consistent, then MAYBE it's time you all realized that...possibly, JUST POSSIBLY mind you...that you're out of your league.

Wow. Unable to separate fantasy and reality, unable to argue without strawmen, ad hominem, and nearly every fallacy in the book... and so humble at the same time. Have fun cheerleading for Steve or whatever it is you're doing here.

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Agreeing that parts of the First Ones are inspired by the Titans is not a counter and is in fact agreeing with what I and others have said. Everything else is moving goal posts to try and save face by "being right" even when you've already agreed you were wrong.

Don't forget the constant ad homs against everyone and the wonderful display of humility we've just enjoyed.