FFXIV wins best community and best still playing at golden joystick awards

[Kaelthasdidnothingwrong]

Unlike Warcraft, Squeenix actually puts out numbers so we know you're objectively incorrect.

Even so, I couldn't possibly care less that your nonexistent person you 'heard' thinks FF14 is boring.

Just less people fighting with me to log in on Endwalker's early access.

Except they dont, you retarded down syndrome clown. They have never given real numbers.
inB4 accounts created. Lmaoing at ur life.

The only number they've EVER given, was that their top 3 mmo's barely had over 1 mill subs, COMBINED.
Thats right, FF11, 14 and Dragon quest X barely had 1 milli subs alltogether, and this was years ago.

[Drindorai]

Except they dont, you retarded down syndrome clown. They have never given real numbers.
inB4 accounts created. Lmaoing at ur life.

The only number they've EVER given, was that their top 3 mmo's barely had over 1 mill subs, COMBINED.
Thats right, FF11, 14 and Dragon quest X barely had 1 milli subs alltogether, and this was years ago.

Oh I see you've made another account.

This is rather sad my guy. Once again you have no idea what you're talking about.

This is the brain rot that you were accusing me of having. It's just video games dude.

[someguy233]

Having a lot of something doesn't make it good.

True but final fantasy music has been consistently amazing for decades. Ff14, while I haven’t played since heavansward, was certainly no exception.

Wow’s music is awesome too, but there’s something magical about the music all across the final fantasy IP.

[Tenjen]

No, that is what I mean. It allows the community to bully anyone that does act like they want it to. Authoritarian utopia.

this is descending further into silly whackadoo statements now. Every community has a "communal" code of conduct people are expected to adhere to. Its not an authoritarian utopia when "treat with basic decency", "patience" and "dont be an asshole" is the code of conduct.

Theres nothing more to be said on the matter. Many other gaming communities fail at the above, where it is the norm, compared to FFXIV, where it is the exception.

Thus the award.

[Delever]

Except they dont, you retarded down syndrome clown. They have never given real numbers.
inB4 accounts created. Lmaoing at ur life.

The only number they've EVER given, was that their top 3 mmo's barely had over 1 mill subs, COMBINED.
Thats right, FF11, 14 and Dragon quest X barely had 1 milli subs alltogether, and this was years ago.

Man all this copium addiction is making you worse than the Belf addicts at sunwell plateau. I suggest seeking immediate help.

[Drindorai]

this is descending further into silly whackadoo statements now. Every community has a "communal" code of conduct people are expected to adhere to. Its not an authoritarian utopia when "treat with basic decency", "patience" and "dont be an asshole" is the code of conduct.

Theres nothing more to be said on the matter. Many other gaming communities fail at the above, where it is the norm, compared to FFXIV, where it is the exception.

Thus the award.

It definitely comes off as this weird sort of knee-jerk defense of WoW while simultaneously shitting on WoW by implication. "NO FF14'S COMMUNITY ISN'T BETTER THAN WOW'S!!" Okay my guy, so you're acknowledging that WoW's is awful and trying to bring another game's community down to that level? Weird route to take.

It's so strange. That and this whole notion of "fake kindness" when people have no idea what is behind the actions and words of other people. This immediate assumption that everybody around you is only being nice disingenuously. I feel bad for the people who see the world that way, it's far more of a self-report than anything else.

As someone who played WoW from Wrath to Legion, I would really love if the community softened and became less toxic like FF14's, not the opposite where FF14's just devolves into the toxic madness of being scared to say anything in a dungeon group else you look like a stupid ignorant noob who gets kicked.

It seems like the vast majority of the knee-jerk freakout definitely stems from some kind of assumption of a video game as part of your own personal identity and thus any criticism of the game is taken as criticism of yourself, which is incredibly unhealthy way to engage with a hobby.

[Yarathir]

I mean, even I could concede that maybe the FF14 rules are a bit strict, but

1. Clearly they work.
2. I don't think they pick and choose, they seem minimally biased in their application.

I can appreciate this. They just seem to try and curb any and all drama, rather than permitting the type that is seen as "acceptable." It seems like their guidelines are focused wholly on keeping a game a game, which is supposed to be about having fun, not getting into political (or otherwise) arguments. I'd have a lot more problems with this strictness if their handling of these things was lopsided. But as far as I know, any troublemakers are warned or suspended.

[Cthulhu 2020]

It definitely comes off as this weird sort of knee-jerk defense of WoW while simultaneously shitting on WoW by implication. "NO FF14'S COMMUNITY ISN'T BETTER THAN WOW'S!!" Okay my guy, so you're acknowledging that WoW's is awful and trying to bring another game's community down to that level? Weird route to take.

It's so strange. That and this whole notion of "fake kindness" when people have no idea what is behind the actions and words of other people. This immediate assumption that everybody around you is only being nice disingenuously. I feel bad for the people who see the world that way, it's far more of a self-report than anything else.

As someone who played WoW from Wrath to Legion, I would really love if the community softened and became less toxic like FF14's, not the opposite where FF14's just devolves into the toxic madness of being scared to say anything in a dungeon group else you look like a stupid ignorant noob who gets kicked.

It seems like the vast majority of the knee-jerk freakout definitely stems from some kind of assumption of a video game as part of your own personal identity and thus any criticism of the game is taken as criticism of yourself, which is incredibly unhealthy way to engage with a hobby.

I played since vanilla WoW, and I can definitely tell you that the community of WoW way back in the day was far better than it is now. Not perfect, but better. Most MMO veterans coming onto WoW were all fellow nerds, we had our comradery in that sense. You could meet people out in the world, even horde + alliance players, that would help each other out. There were often times where me and a horde player would just emote out which mob we were going to try and kill, or whatever, for a really hard quest then assist each other.

Then there were all the players fresh on the boat to the MMO genre, people who were excited at the prospect of meeting tons of other players in a fantasy world.
Players were just more bright-eyed, more ignorant of MMOs and raid mechanics in general, and just far NICER. Ignorance is bliss.

Someone mentioned on the last page that about 5% of FFXIV players are truly good, 30% are decent, and the rest are trash at the game, and this sentiment that players back in the early days of WoW were way worse at MMOs may be a clue into this. If you're not obsessed with your performance, I think it just makes you overall a nicer player because you're playing the game for more satisfying reasons than getting big numbers. Incidentally, the current design philosophy of WoW has embraced this spreadsheet model, and rewards those who perform at extreme levels, while leaving others behind. WoW's design used to be more inclusive, even if it meant it never got all that difficult. A raiding guild might not have been the best back in the day, but they were YOUR raiding guild.

In FFXIV, the savage and ultimate raiding community has both some of THE absolute nicest people you will ever meet (if you've never met Rin Karigani, you can't tell me everyone is "either an asshole or faking kindness" because he is the nicest person ever) as well as some of the most toxic people you will ever meet. Arthars and Xeno come to mind in that latter category.

Then again, this belief that "There are no nice people, and if you think someone is nice, they're faking it" story comes from a certain segment of the population that is extremely toxic. They use it as some kind of excuse to justify their toxicity. Among the political sphere, you will sometimes hear the phrase "If they're not an asshole then they're a liar". It's usually used to justify politicians who are openly assholes, claiming that they're somehow more honest than other politicians with decorum. Whether or not you believe they're all liars is up to you, but I think this idea that if you're not an asshole then you're a liar/passive aggressive/talk behind people's back is patently false.

[Lane]

Someone mentioned on the last page that about 5% of FFXIV players are truly good, 30% are decent, and the rest are trash at the game, and this sentiment that players back in the early days of WoW were way worse at MMOs may be a clue into this. If you're not obsessed with your performance, I think it just makes you overall a nicer player because you're playing the game for more satisfying reasons than getting big numbers.

It's not being obsessed, it's being considerate of the other players who your performance directly affects in group content. The statement was also not about "big numbers". It's about tanks who never use defensive CDs, healers who never DPS even when the party isn't taking damage, etc. The passive aggressiveness comes from people whose time is being wasted and enjoyment ruined because someone decided they didn't need to bother to know the basics of their job, mechanics, or whatever* to the detriment of everyone else.

* This includes things like the group I was in last night with a 'friendly' healer who caused multiple wipes because they were too busy being chatty to do their role.

[Cthulhu 2020]

It's not being obsessed, it's being considerate of the other players who your performance directly affects in group content. The statement was also not about "big numbers". It's about tanks who never use defensive CDs, healers who never DPS even when the party isn't taking damage, etc. The passive aggressiveness comes from people whose time is being wasted and enjoyment ruined because someone decided they didn't need to bother to know the basics of their job, mechanics, or whatever* to the detriment of everyone else.

* This includes things like the group I was in last night with a 'friendly' healer who caused multiple wipes because they were too busy being chatty to do their role.

The number of players I run into who don't even use the basics of their class like defensive/offensive cooldowns, healers that don't DPS or can't keep the group alive, etc. certainly isn't 65%. That I will say with certainty. The skill required to complete 4 man dungeons also isn't that high. They're specifically designed for that kind of player in mind to pass through them relatively easily or even with minor trouble. That's very clearly a design choice, or the dungeons would be harder than they are.

I saw someone say that they'd like to see twice come ruin (DR mechanic that kills you if you fail two mechanics) in 4 mans in endwalker. My immediate thought was that will never happen, precisely because there are players like that.

As was mentioned in a thread post in the WoW general forums, WoW vanilla was designed by hardcore raiders from EQ who wanted to build a game that was for everyone. I think that's a great design philosophy, and one that FFXIV has nailed. On top of the TOS not permitting overly negative or toxic behavior in game, the laid back nature of most of the gameplay promotes a more relaxed environment than "raid or die".

The only toxic/most toxic people I know are really hardcore raiders. My savage static is mostly laid back, and my ultimate group is so-so, but I've met plenty of people who are openly toxic on discord about "shitty players" and every single one is an ultimate raider. Can't say I've met a single toxic or passive aggressive player that only ever did normal/alliance raids and relic weapons as the hardest content.

[Yarathir]

While I definitely get the desire for everyone to play their part, it's a difficult balancing act. If you give people an opportunity to be pushy about their dps meters and all that, you quickly risk turning it into a metaslave shitfest where anyone that isn't fully optimized to the last testicular follicle gets shitcanned. By comparison, I'd much rather have a game where the rules make it so people are perhaps a tad too bit hands-off with their expectations for player contribution, though neither is ultimately ideal of course.

With its rules, FFXIV has mostly managed to keep the game feeling like a game- you know, a thing you do for fun. And that's a rare thing to me nowadays.

[Jtbrig7390]

While I definitely get the desire for everyone to play their part, it's a difficult balancing act. If you give people an opportunity to be pushy about their dps meters and all that, you quickly risk turning it into a metaslave shitfest where anyone that isn't fully optimized to the last testicular follicle gets shitcanned. By comparison, I'd much rather have a game where the rules make it so people are perhaps a tad too bit hands-off with their expectations for player contribution, though neither is ultimately ideal of course.

With its rules, FFXIV has mostly managed to keep the game feeling like a game- you know, a thing you do for fun. And that's a rare thing to me nowadays.

This so much.

The very moment that give the green light for addon's is when ill quit FFXIV. Addon's in WoW has fostered a very loud toxic part of the game and I personally don't want to deal with it. It got old in WoW and over the years made WoW not fun for me to play anymore (among other things).

I like that FFXIV is chill and a game, not a virtual dick waving contest.

[Lane]

The number of players I run into who don't even use the basics of their class like defensive/offensive cooldowns, healers that don't DPS or can't keep the group alive, etc. certainly isn't 65%. That I will say with certainty. The skill required to complete 4 man dungeons also isn't that high. They're specifically designed for that kind of player in mind to pass through them relatively easily or even with minor trouble. That's very clearly a design choice, or the dungeons would be harder than they are.

65% sounds about right for me. I have hundreds of DF horror stories I could share and I haven't been playing that long. I've heard that my DC (Crystal) is terrible, I also got swept up in the surge of new and returning players (who were funneled to Crystal due to Aether being closed and Road to 70). I was starting to feel straight out of the movie Gaslight with people telling me everything in the MSQ is easy, you could faceroll through it, tanking and healing are the most brainless jobs in the game, etc. None of which has been my experience at all.

Stormblood has been the worst by far. My Royal Menagerie group was dragged kicking and screaming across the finish line with the healers having to use LB3 and Swiftcast + Raise on CD. The Burn was also horrendous. I asked after about the 8th wipe on the last boss how anyone made it past that point in the MSQ when the content was new. I am thrilled I'll have trusts going forward in ShB and only have to worry about DF for the trials.

[Sharby]

I've heard that JP community is way more ruthless/backhanded with how they deal with the ToS and make public blacklists to exclude people who don't pull their weight.



Moral of the story seems to be play at a level that's considerate to others or just stick to solo content.

[Tenjen]

I've heard that JP community is way more ruthless/backhanded with how they deal with the ToS and make public blacklists to exclude people who don't pull their weight.



Moral of the story seems to be play at a level that's considerate to others or just stick to solo content.

The JP community has its own cultural standards, which are often misunderstand by outsiders playing with them who dont understand the different codes of conduct they follow ingame on their servers, it comes off as ruthless and backhanded when really theres just a lot of nuance that is being completely missed on both sides who are ill informed on what to expect from each other.

[Cthulhu 2020]

65% sounds about right for me. I have hundreds of DF horror stories I could share and I haven't been playing that long. I've heard that my DC (Crystal) is terrible, I also got swept up in the surge of new and returning players (who were funneled to Crystal due to Aether being closed and Road to 70). I was starting to feel straight out of the movie Gaslight with people telling me everything in the MSQ is easy, you could faceroll through it, tanking and healing are the most brainless jobs in the game, etc. None of which has been my experience at all.

Stormblood has been the worst by far. My Royal Menagerie group was dragged kicking and screaming across the finish line with the healers having to use LB3 and Swiftcast + Raise on CD. The Burn was also horrendous. I asked after about the 8th wipe on the last boss how anyone made it past that point in the MSQ when the content was new. I am thrilled I'll have trusts going forward in ShB and only have to worry about DF for the trials.

I play on Crystal, and I can say we probably do have a larger population of casual players who don't care about mechanics, simply because all of the world first raiders are on aether and primal, so when people asked "Where do I go to raid" everyone said aether and primal. These players joining the game aren't going to get into those world first groups, but it does set up this expectation that there will at least be good raid groups there. Crystal's raiding scene has grown throughout Shadowbringers and is actually fairly decent now. For about 12 hours out of every day, during the US prime times, there are groups for all savages and even UWU ultimate in party finder.

If world visit allows us to raid with people from other data centers, but restricts us to playing with the pool of whoever's on that data center, then the data center divide may not even matter any more.

But again, as someone who is on crystal, I won't say 65% of players were noticeably bad. I'd say 10-15% are great, 70% are so-so (they do enough so that the dungeon isn't overly difficult for the rest of us), and about 10-15% are the dead weight, the people who do almost no damage. I've rarely ever run into healers that are just straight up bad. And since I tank 90% of PF I can't say what the PF tanks are like... but as a tank who uses my cooldowns, as well as self heals, I've often carried groups when that one really bad player is the healer. It's a great feeling to know you're "that guy" who saved the group. Which is another reason why red mage is satisfying to play as a DPS. You can spot heal as well as save groups from a wipe by being able to res people incredibly fast. But I'm getting off topic.

Royal Menagerie is probably one of the single hardest fights to do to this day that is required for the MSQ. It's a wonderfully climactic moment, and I feel players being slapped with that sudden difficulty is a good thing, it's kind of a wake up call. But that does mean there is the down side that if half of your group just happens to be that lower 15% of players, you're in for a bad time.

[Lane]

And since I tank 90% of PF I can't say what the PF tanks are like... but as a tank who uses my cooldowns, as well as self heals, I've often carried groups when that one really bad player is the healer.

I'm talking about DF, leveling roulettes and MSQ. I've never used PF and this is all pre-ShB. Maybe post-70 players aren't as bad? Though I still read my fair share of horror stories about the ShB trials and Amaurot dungeon.

Royal Menagerie is probably one of the single hardest fights to do to this day that is required for the MSQ. It's a wonderfully climactic moment, and I feel players being slapped with that sudden difficulty is a good thing, it's kind of a wake up call. But that does mean there is the down side that if half of your group just happens to be that lower 15% of players, you're in for a bad time.

At least half the group were first timers and there's pervasive messaging that you don't need to/shouldn't reference guides for anything in the MSQ. Sure, if you like to suffer and/or cause others suffering. I'm just trying to get to the next part of the story. I'll stop there before I launch into a rant about everything wrong with mandatory trials and how they're a blight upon an otherwise enjoyable game. :P

Edit: Honestly, if SE ever sold some kind of trial skip they'd make a fortune off of me.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'm talking about DF, leveling roulettes and MSQ. I've never used PF and this is all pre-ShB. Maybe post-70 players aren't as bad? Though I still read my fair share of horror stories about the ShB trials and Amaurot dungeon.



At least half the group were first timers and there's pervasive messaging that you don't need to/shouldn't reference guides for anything in the MSQ. Sure, if you like to suffer and/or cause others suffering. I'm just trying to get to the next part of the story. I'll stop there before I launch into a rant about everything wrong with mandatory trials and how they're a blight upon an otherwise enjoyable game. :P

Edit: Honestly, if SE ever sold some kind of trial skip they'd make a fortune off of me.

I was talking about duty finder and roulettes as well.

Also I think Royal Menagerie is hard, but it's learnable. If the group is literally just THAT bad, you don't get a leaver penalty if you've spent 15 minutes in there, which is more than enough for 3-4 pulls to see if the group is progressing or not. And as much as it sucks, wait a bit and queue again.

[Schmittay]

One thing I've noticed is people don't mind other people making mistakes, even multiple times, and calmly explaining what they should be doing. Heck, when I was new to healing I would say that I am not experienced, most tanks would do smaller pulls, explain boss mechanics, and even if I failed multiple times, I would get responses like "We'll get it this time!". I'd usually get all the player commendations too, even if I wiped the group.

I was just in a DF group this morning that wiped 4 times on the last boss of Keeper of the Lake, for those who don't know it has a fair bit more AoE dodging then previous dungeons up to that point, and needing to click a shield generator to avoid instant death to anyone but the tank. Healer wiped us 3 times by dying to avoidable AoE (God bless her sprout heart) and I clicked the generator too early once. No one lost their shit, no one left, we all actually had MORE fun because it caused as to talk more. This is consistently my experience with the FFXIV community.

[Kittahsmash]

Honestly, the only time I've seen outright hostility and major toxic behavior is when it comes to hunts... people get so over protective of "their mob", that if you do something like attack the mob before they think it's time to start combat, they'll do everything they can to blacklist you from your data center's hunt discords, as well as getting people in their LS to block you so you can't join their PF's. My own personal example: I dared to have the unmitigated gall to post the location of an S rank to the hunt LS's I was in when it *literally* popped up in front of me, and somebody else in the zone took huge offense to that...claiming that "it was their mob because they worked on spawning it"...that started a huge shitshow for a few hours that really just made me not care about being helpful when it comes to hunts anymore. (Hello, Primal DC and specifically The Coeurl!)

Outside of that community (and maybe the pvp one, though that's such a minor group that the word 'minority' would be overstating its popularity) the people who play the game are perfectly fine, and loads better than the average person I come across in a few of the other MMOs I've played over the years.