Russian invasion of Ukraine

[XDurionX]

It’s more about the short time frame it’s in.

3500 if that’s true would be no small number for just under 3 days of fighting.

This pretty much. Yes, WW2 saw 60M dead, over the course of 2.000 days of war, including many many civilians and people murdered in concentration camps. 1k dead soldiers per day is nothing to scoff at, not even for Putin. Sure, they will take Kiev, but boy will they bleed. He surely overestimated russian capabilities and can only hope to be done with it before griefing russian mothers tear him a new one.

Once this is over, one way or the other, russia will be a lot weaker than before, considereing all the aspects.

[Vampiregenesis]

Was hitler more competent than putin in his first wars?

Also, I think putin can't really pull a hitler here, half of europe was fascistic and allied with hitler, putin has no allies.

[Barzotti]

While they certainly underperformed and didn't fulfil their early goals, we have to be honest with ourselves - Russia isn't going to war with Ukraine in the traditional sense. They're very much capable of razing down every major urban settlement that provides resistance and every piece of military infrastructure, establishing an embargo and no-fly zone up to Lviv. They planned wrongly, miscalculated and they're paying the price for it, but they could've kept pounding Ukraine into submission without commiting ground troops outside of the self-proclaimed DNR and LNR. They counted on local support and a quick ground excursion, while also trying to reduce damage to civil infrastructure which they'd need to repair if destroyed.

Russia could have nuked the main Ukrainian cities, indeed. But what is the point of razing to the ground a country you want to occupy? That doesn't make any sense. You admitted it yourself in your previous post: they didn't go to war in the traditional sense because they can't go to war in the traditional sense.

[Magnagarde]

Was hitler more competent than putin in his first wars?

Also, I think putin can't really pull a hitler here, half of europe was fascistic and allied with hitler, putin has no allies.

You don't really need allies in this day and age. You need a strong deterrent and self-reliance when it comes to energy supplies, military manufacturing and food.

[Easo]

So precise they just shot down their own plane.

Just like Ukrainians with their Su-27 over Kiev? Oh, right, we also need a proof for that Russian shootdown. Also happens in Western forces, btw, because the only people who do not make the mistakes are those who do not fly/fight/*insert actions as needed*.

When you're comparing to the 150 or so the Ukrainians are admitting having lost, it's a lot. Furthermore, that that number of Russian troops body count is includes routing of their special forces. It's a really poor performance. Any western nation would consider it a genuine tragedy, and commanders would be sacked for it.

You believe after all those missile strikes and destroyed vechicles that they have lost only 150? Brah.

You know what that tells me? Blahhhhhh.............................

You remind me of the people from Armenia, who were "holding" towns a week after their capture. Go take a job within Ukraine's MoD.

You do not actually know, no one knows (yes, me too). We are talking about invasion of a country bigger than France, the scale is stupidly massive. The only one who actually know what is going on, what the losses are are Russian/Ukrainian general staff. Even West is just talking about slowed down offensive, not actual outright failures - a subtle, yet very important difference.

The fact that there are no destroyed Russian armor columns of more than 2-3 tanks means that battlefield is left to them. All those destroyed soft-skinned vehicles - most are without bodies - either they are alive (or maybe captured) or again, battlefield was left in Russian hands/they had the chance to remove them.

Do you actually understand Russian? Ukrainian? If no then you automatically loose most of the information. I do, most of this forum does not. That alone gives me more information sources to look over, that is why I was calling out things like the "Russian tank crushing car" or "Russian missile hitting high rise" as actually Ukrainian mistakes.
I could go on and talk about culture and country specific stuff both of the nations have, because that is important too regarding reporting and propaganda, but is there a point...?
P.S.
I wonder, do you also believe in Ghost of Kiev?

[Magnagarde]

Russia could have nuked the main Ukrainian cities, indeed. But what is the point of razing to the ground a country you want to occupy? That doesn't make any sense. You admitted it yourself in your previous post: they didn't go to war in the traditional sense because they can't go to war in the traditional sense.

That's why they appear weak; they're showing great levels of restraint and I'm expecting that to change rapidly. They're not weak, they're simply restrained.

No army in the world would be able to take a city the size of Kiev without first breaking the defenders through attrition and heavy air raids and artillery bombardment, while keeping it intact. This is why they haven't succeeded and that's all I wanted to point out. This tells me that they counted on a lack of unity and on more pro-Russian support in order to avoid the aforementioned scenarios.

Now that the sanctions have landed and that the initial plan failed, I'm affraid they're going to go down the unrestrained route.

[Breccia]

Statement of ICC Prosecutor, Karim A.A. Khan QC, on the Situation in Ukraine

It's a short read, but I'll spare you anyhow: Russia is just randomly blowing up non-military targets, such as buildings and civilians.

Obviously the ICC can't do much about it on their own, but for those few people out there still shrilling "but Ukrainians are Nazis!" there's yet more "you're wrong" thrown over that argument.

[snebb]

I'm feeling very uneasy at what may happen tonight following a few days of embarrassment for Russia.

Has this been confirmed as accurate?
https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndep...64944023773190

[Magnagarde]

I'm feeling very uneasy at what may happen tonight following a few days of embarrassment for Russia.

Has this been confirmed as accurate?
https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndep...64944023773190

It would seem they've ditched the initial plan of a specialized quick operation into the capital and Ukraine's heartland. Kharkov is going through a bombardment too.

[P for Pancetta]

While they certainly underperformed and didn't fulfil their early goals, we have to be honest with ourselves - Russia isn't going to war with Ukraine in the traditional sense. They're very much capable of razing down every major urban settlement that provides resistance and every piece of military infrastructure, establishing an embargo and no-fly zone up to Lviv. They planned wrongly, miscalculated and they're paying the price for it, but they could've kept pounding Ukraine into submission without commiting ground troops outside of the self-proclaimed DNR and LNR. They counted on local support and a quick ground excursion.

They would be capable of razing down Ukraine if they wanted too, if their soldiers wouldn't desert. A significant amount already have comparatively. it's quite uncommon in modern militaries. they have failed to establish a no-fly zone so far and despite this have taken extraordinary risks in the sky that have led to zero success and huge losses.

Pounding Ukraine into submission would defeat the purpose of the entire war. they want Ukraine back in their sphere of influence and if that Ukraine is a ruined hellhole it's worthless.

Having said that, Putin do be crazy.

- - - Updated - - -

Just like Ukrainians with their Su-27 over Kiev? Oh, right, we also need a proof for that Russian shootdown. Also happens in Western forces, btw, because the only people who do not make the mistakes are those who do not fly/fight/*insert actions as needed*.



You believe after all those missile strikes and destroyed vechicles that they have lost only 150? Brah.



You remind me of the people from Armenia, who were "holding" towns a week after their capture. Go take a job within Ukraine's MoD.

You do not actually know, no one knows (yes, me too). We are talking about invasion of a country bigger than France, the scale is stupidly massive. The only one who actually know what is going on, what the losses are are Russian/Ukrainian general staff. Even West is just talking about slowed down offensive, not actual outright failures - a subtle, yet very important difference.

The fact that there are no destroyed Russian armor columns of more than 2-3 tanks means that battlefield is left to them. All those destroyed soft-skinned vehicles - most are without bodies - either they are alive (or maybe captured) or again, battlefield was left in Russian hands/they had the chance to remove them.

Do you actually understand Russian? Ukrainian? If no then you automatically loose most of the information. I do, most of this forum does not. That alone gives me more information sources to look over, that is why I was calling out things like the "Russian tank crushing car" or "Russian missile hitting high rise" as actually Ukrainian mistakes.
I could go on and talk about culture and country specific stuff both of the nations have, because that is important too regarding reporting and propaganda, but is there a point...?
P.S.
I wonder, do you also believe in Ghost of Kiev?

Rofl you're such a buffoon

[Magnagarde]

Pounding Ukraine into submission would defeat the purpose of the entire war. they want Ukraine back in their sphere of influence and if that Ukraine is a ruined hellhole it's worthless.

This is exactly why this entire war makes absolutely no sense. Did he and his planners expect everyone to roll over and present a red carpet to the military incursion and aggression. Maybe they're delusional enough to have believed that they'd recieve a hero's welcome and that a former comedian wouldn't be able to rally any resistance/would flee as soon as possible.

Either way, I'm affraid this is going to get a lot worse for the people of Ukraine. There's not much else for Russia to lose on the international stage.

[PhaelixWW]

Rofl you're such a buffoon

Sturdy comeback.

[Jessicka]

They would be capable of razing down Ukraine if they wanted too, if their soldiers wouldn't desert. A significant amount already have comparatively. it's quite uncommon in modern militaries. they have failed to establish a no-fly zone so far and despite this have taken extraordinary risks in the sky that have led to zero success and huge losses.

Pounding Ukraine into submission would defeat the purpose of the entire war. they want Ukraine back in their sphere of influence and if that Ukraine is a ruined hellhole it's worthless.

Having said that, Putin do be crazy.

Putin certainly has ticked off an awful lot of things on the list of "Things Putin wouldn't do".

[P for Pancetta]

Sturdy comeback.

Yeah once it's over it's over. He hasn't provided a single non fallacious argument. Not gonna waste more of my time on a troll/idiot.

[Gorsameth]

This is exactly why this entire war makes absolutely no sense. Did he and his planners expect everyone to roll over and present a red carpet to the military incursion and aggression. Maybe they're delusional enough to have believed that they'd recieve a hero's welcome and that a former comedian wouldn't be able to rally any resistance/would flee as soon as possible.

Either way, I'm afraid this is going to get a lot worse for the people of Ukraine. There's not much else for Russia to lose on the international stage.

Emboldened by the ease with which they took Crimea and the rebel territories holding out I imagine. Add in yes-men around him and military leaders afraid to tell him No for fear of falling out of a window and this is what you get it seems.

[Creotor]

Statement of ICC Prosecutor, Karim A.A. Khan QC, on the Situation in Ukraine

It's a short read, but I'll spare you anyhow: Russia is just randomly blowing up non-military targets, such as buildings and civilians.

Obviously the ICC can't do much about it on their own, but for those few people out there still shrilling "but Ukrainians are Nazis!" there's yet more "you're wrong" thrown over that argument.

Did you link the wrong thing? There's not a word there about what Russia is doing (certainly no specifics that you mentioned). It's nearly as generic of a statement as it could possibly get.

[Khaza-R]

This is exactly why this entire war makes absolutely no sense. Did he and his planners expect everyone to roll over and present a red carpet to the military incursion and aggression. Maybe they're delusional enough to have believed that they'd recieve a hero's welcome and that a former comedian wouldn't be able to rally any resistance/would flee as soon as possible.

Either way, I'm affraid this is going to get a lot worse for the people of Ukraine. There's not much else for Russia to lose on the international stage.

They probably believed they could easily take the country. Force them into a non-alignment agreement and keep parts of Eastern Ukraine as consolation.

I can only imagine there's a bit of panic now as they haven't been able to achieve that. I don't think there's anything Putin fears more than humiliation on the global stage. And that derangement is what we all really need to be scared of in the days to come.

[Creotor]

China has already put sanctions on Russia today

That's some inane shit, unless you have a source?

[PhaelixWW]

Yeah once it's over it's over. He hasn't provided a single non fallacious argument. Not gonna waste more of my time on a troll/idiot.

I think you definitely missed the implied /s there.

[P for Pancetta]

I think you definitely missed the implied /s there.

I definitely didn't I just figured you hadn't read the conversation.