Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Lahis]

Is the guy officially unhinged? And all of this hate, anger and entitlement because Ukraine "dared" to move away from Russia influence. This is such a Cold War soviet mentality our ex-KGB dude shows I don't even anymore.

He has Stalin's paranoia and Hitler's arrogance.

[DarkAmbient]

Fighting is sure a great option as long as you're not the doing it. Also gives you great free points on a gamer forum for stronks, nice circlejerks too - big copium.

It's the other way round. "Join up and fight on the front lines then" is just a bullshit internet zinger that superficially sounds good and makes people feel like they're winning an argument, but a person's willingness or otherwise to fight in a war is not relevant to their opinion that military action may be justified.

[jonnysensible]

Yes, you have designated the problem.

But what's the solution then? What, you think some random Bob, Josh or Meg from Los Angeles or Boston want to go grab that gun and/or foot the bill for some war they don't care about half a globe away? No they don't, same way I don't want to because for me - hell, it's not even in top 20 of my priorities in life and I was frikkin' born in Ukraine.

Same goes for much of Western Europe too - they care more about buying that bigger car for the family, mortgage or heck rising energy prices for that matter. Only East Europe and practically Baltics actually want something tough, because they are next in line on a bad day.

It's practically the reality.

But sure - can always act big and tough on them gaming forums, that has no actual cost whatsoever and makes one look cool and big and part of something.


And politicians are keenly aware of this all with clock ticking towards re-elections. So yeah big stronk talks, little actual action that can actually help if cost of it will be votes in next elections.

write to your local mp : Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions

[Collegeguy]

Because it's a stupid war and no leader wants to enter a stupid war.
TO avoid US/Nato involvement Russia only needs to do a few things.

Most difficult one.
4) Don't turn Ukraine into a 3e world country that will force a migration crisis similar to what we seen in the Syria/Irak. This might be really really hard to avoid because we are talking about 40M people here and we don't know how far Russia will go.

I get the feeling this will be hard. Historically, we shouldn't forget that Afghanistan was a growing economic center before the Soviets came in and started bombing entire cities to respond to a few Russian diplomats getting killed by rebels. It has turned into a wasteland compared to what it once was, and the same could happen to another Russian puppet state. Also, forcing people to do what they don't want to do never works well for the ensuing populace.

[Gaidax]

It's the other way round. "Join up and fight on the front lines then" is just a bullshit internet zinger that superficially sounds good and makes people feel like they're winning an argument, but a person's willingness or otherwise to fight in a war is not relevant to their opinion that military action may be justified.

It is actually a proper response that splashes cold water on the whole hothead populist warmongering bullshit thing.

It merely means - "ok, are you actually ready to pay the personal price for investing efforts in that place thousands km away?". Which is where the whole thing stops.

It's simply where the bullshit stops.

[Specialka]

It is actually a proper response that splashes cold water on the whole hothead populist warmongering bullshit thing.

It merely means - "ok, are you actually ready to pay the personal price for investing efforts in that place thousands km away?". Which is where the whole thing stops.

It's simply where the bullshit stops.

I think it is more on the level of 'Do not ask others to do that sacrifice if you are not willing to do it yourself'.

[Gaidax]

I get the feeling this will be hard. Historically, we shouldn't forget that Afghanistan was a growing economic center before the Soviets came in and started bombing entire cities to respond to a few Russian diplomats getting killed by rebels. It has turned into a wasteland compared to what it once was, and the same could happen to another Russian puppet state. Also, forcing people to do what they don't want to do never works well for the ensuing populace.

Afghanistan is a consequence of its leadership back in 60s trying to sit on both chairs. They had this brilliant idea of opening the country for investment both sides thinking fair financial competition rules would apply and they'd get best deals.

They just forgot that both sides have lots of guns and geopolitics is not free trade market.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Loving how all of the conservatives are taking pot shots at "sleepy joe" for not going to war over this. Theyve spent the last 2 years calling him a warmonger and now this. Can you guys make up your minds on what your positions are already?

Also loving the Trump saber rattling. "If I were in office this wouldn't happen!" Yes, it would have. Trump let the last invasion happen while licking Putin's boot. Anyone who believes that Trump was the hardest on Russia forgets that he said that because he begrudgingly signed the sanctions passed by Congress. He was a little bitch for 2 weeks when those sanctions passed with a super majority and he knew he couldn't veto them. Then took credit for passing them.

Meanwhile our resident Putinistas have just straight up stopped trying to say that Russia isnt invading after 150 pages of trying to deny and MOSTLY deflect at the USA and NATO.

[jonnysensible]

people fighting and dying for their homes right now and the best you can come up with 'is 'doesn't effect me oh well'

[DarkAmbient]

I think it is more on the level of 'Do not ask others to do that sacrifice if you are not willing to do it yourself'.

That's a dumb quote too. The armed forces are sent to war by politicians on behalf of the rest of us who can't or won't do it ourselves. They sign up for that sacrifice, it's literally their job.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I would be a hypocrite and a racist if I supported war with Russia over Ukraine but didn't China over Taiwan, even though the situation seem different they really aren't. Ukraine like Belarus used to be part of the U.S.S.R.

And Putin has always been a Tyrannical communist cold murderer since he was a KGB, he had this attacked planned for a while. That said I am not so sure about Ukraine either and some of these Nazi's that have taken hold in the country. Bottom line is they aren't NATO and this too is NOT our fight.


I agree with Sanctions but that is it unless they attack U.S or NATO Ally and then and only then should we go to war with RUSSIA which looks like is going to happen anyways.

[Gaidax]

I think it is more on the level of 'Do not ask others to do that sacrifice if you are not willing to do it yourself'.

I view it mostly as the reality of citizens in Western countries having MUCH more pressing priorities than some war somewhere far off.

Like take me - my only interest is basically that I was born in Ukraine and lived there for a decade until thankfully fucking off. But of things I want and need my government to do, getting involved into that Ukraine/Russia mess on my list is somewhere between "hell no" and "are you kidding me?".

My priority is crazy housing prices, insane taxes and the ultra-religious 20% of population being fucking freeloaders and being encouraged to keep being such, while multiplying like rabbits.

Ukraine? Yeah, cool story for morning coffee there.

[Doctor Amadeus]

people fighting and dying for their homes right now and the best you can come up with 'is 'doesn't effect me oh well'

Support them in the way we support Taiwan, and take in families who need it?

[Jessicka]

I would be a hypocrite and a racist if I supported war with Russia over Ukraine but didn't China over Taiwan, even though the situation seem different they really aren't. Ukraine like Belarus used to be part of the U.S.S.R.

And Putin has always been a Tyrannical communist cold murderer since he was a KGB, he had this attacked planned for a while. That said I am not so sure about Ukraine either and some of these Nazi's that have taken hold in the country. Bottom line is they aren't NATO and this too is NOT our fight.


I agree with Sanctions but that is it unless they attack U.S or NATO Ally and then and only then should we go to war with RUSSIA which looks like is going to happen anyways.

Putin is not a communist, he's a Big Man Fascist.

[Gorsameth]

It is actually a proper response that splashes cold water on the whole hothead populist warmongering bullshit thing.

It merely means - "ok, are you actually ready to pay the personal price for investing efforts in that place thousands km away?". Which is where the whole thing stops.

It's simply where the bullshit stops.

There is a generation that said 'yes I am' to that. They are why I now don't speak German.

I wonder what the people who lived through that and made that sacrifice would say now about the world standing back as Putin repeats history.

[jonnysensible]

And Putin has always been a Tyrannical communist cold murderer since he was a KGB, he had this attacked planned for a while. That said I am not so sure about Ukraine either and some of these Nazi's that have taken hold in the country. Bottom line is they aren't NATO and this too is NOT our fight.

Putin is a capitalist. And These 'nazis' got what 6% of the vote in the last election how many did they get in your last election over 40%?

[zealo]

Just an example of keyboard warriors I am talking about



China just announced they are starting to import wheat from Russia.

That's what the reality of war looks like for you, people coming home in body bags.

Expecting people to tiptoe around it with fake niceties and concern for the well-being of lives of people trying to strip others of theirs would be a ridiculous expectation.

[Gaidax]

There is a generation that said 'yes I am' to that. They are why I am now don't speak German.

I wonder what the people who lived through that and made that sacrifice would say now about the world standing back as Putin repeats history.

Not everything is World War III.

You can push that line over every single conflict in the globe, but in the end - people just want to go on with their lives unless it's completely impossible to do anymore. That's when "yes I am" comes, not at every bloody peep. And with all the respect - Ukraine/Russia mess is faaaaar from actual Nazi Germany rise. Little Volodya needs a good several decades to fill uncle Adolf's shoes.

We'd be in a frikkin' non-stop wars for survival if everyone would throw themselves at the enemy at slightest provocation.

[Reeve]

There is a generation that said 'yes I am' to that. They are why I now don't speak German.

I wonder what the people who lived through that and made that sacrifice would say now about the world standing back as Putin repeats history.

That generation largely had their own countries attacked before entering the war.

But I do tend to agree that we could have done more to deter this. Russia doesn't want war with NATO any more than NATO wants war with Russia. If we had taken a more firm stance, there's a good chance Russia never would have been invaded. But the flipside of that is if we called Putin's bluff and he decided to go all in anyway, it would have been the start of a conflict the world hasn't seen in 80 years. The death and human suffering would have been horrifying.

But if you don't stop a bully, they don't stop bullying. This won't end here. My biggest fear is that if Trump gets re-elected, Putin invades Estonia or one of the other Baltics, surmising that Trump wouldn't be willing to go to war to protect Estonia. He'd probably be correct, as Trump appears to be in Putin's pocket to begin with, but that would be the dismantling of NATO.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Putin is not a communist, he's a Big Man Fascist.

No He's a Communist. In every sense of the word.